I need some help understand a few Democratic ideals...

[nehalem256]

You're being stupid. Abortion is not murder. This is a social issue that stems from religion. Some people believe that a clump of cells are a person. Others don't. Our government should not be telling people which one is right and trying to control women's bodies. Late term abortions are horrible and nobody would ever get one unless it was absolutely necessary.

They should stick to controlling men's bodies by forcing them to be slaves for women's choices.

Because you live in a society that cares about people. You're the minority when it comes to a dog eat dog world. If you look at all the 1st world countries in the world the US sticks out like a sore thumb for the least amount of benefits. Our middle class is shrinking and our lower classes are growing. If that's what you want then keep beating that drum.

Maybe that us because people in the middle class responsibly have 2 children they can afford to feed instead of popping out 6 bastard children that society has to take care of?

 

[jhbball]

I think you mean Mother. As according to Democrats it is entirely the woman's choice whether or not the child is born.

Funny though that you will never see Democrats blaming women for CHOOSING to bring a child into poverty.

Just stop.

 

[fskimospy]

Sentient human beings are disposable non-existent persons in your world and you have the audacity to denigrate those who think it's morally wrong to kill them...and do this while preaching about the sanctity of "other people's bodies"? The mental gymnastics one goes through to rationalize this kind of cognitive dissonance amazes me.

I think he's specifically saying the fetus at that point is non-sentient. So, the opposite of what you're saying.

The pro-life position on abortion is incoherent to me, at least those who believe abortion is the murder of a person. If you ask people who believe that abortion is murder what the punishment should be for performing an illegal abortion, they very rarely say that it should be punished by life imprisonment, the death penalty, etc.

The 'life begins at conception' argument is even more incoherent.

 

[kia75]

It's also anti-biblical. Abraham was allowed to "abort" (sacrifice) Issac long after he was born, and Jephtat "aborted" (sacrificed) his daughter who could talk and asked for a 2 month reprieve. Parents killing their children wasn't a big deal in bible-times (I brought you into this world, I cant take you out of it). The bible makes many mentions that God knows you when you take your first breath, suggesting that's when the body gets a soul.

So why did Evangelicals all of a sudden feel abortion was really really important in the 80's after remaining quietly mum about it in the 70's? Because of segregation and religious schools.

 

[nehalem256]

Just stop.

You don't like the truth pointed out to you I take it...

If having a child is completely a woman's choice. Something that the Democratic Party unequivocally believes.

Then women are largely responsible for children being born into poverty.

 

[nehalem256]

The pro-life position on abortion is incoherent to me, at least those who believe abortion is the murder of a person. If you ask people who believe that abortion is murder what the punishment should be for performing an illegal abortion, they very rarely say that it should be punished by life imprisonment, the death penalty, etc.
.

Probably because people are largely unwilling to hold women responsible for their actions. See how as far as I know no women were charged with getting illegal abortions from Kermit Gosnell.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I'm looking for honest answers please.

1. The voter fraud/ID laws all have been written in a way in which it makes it harder for people to vote. Essentially, more hoops to jump through. Working people or poor people will have more difficulty making it through the hoops. Retires won't. Most retirees are republicans, most working people or poor people are democrats. Naturally, these laws are created specificly to reduce the quantity of specific demographics from voting. It's very obvious. They aren't even trying to conceal it.


2. Mexico is fvcked. We should provide legal immigration path for them to follow. They usually work hard and don't ask for much. They want to raise their families in peace and immigration helps the US grow.

3. Abortion is different from murder. I think abortion is horrible, but, a fetus simply can't survive outside of the womb. If that person who is pregnant wants to cancel/terminate the pregnancy, they should have that right since he or she is a part of their body at that point. If you are going to try to compare it to something else, may as well call it self mutilation.

4. We need to crack down on fraud. Too many people who are not disabled collect disability. Social Security is a great thing, when you put money into it, it's really for your retirement. Disability benefits are a great thing. My fiance's mother has 2 bad knees and a bad shoulder. She worked in a factory for around 30 years. She raised 2 kids on her own and worked many many hours. About 2 years ago she lost her job because the company went under. She wasn't able to find work, would you hire a disabled 55 year old woman? She knows how to work just about every machine in a factory (worked for company that made elevator cars). Finally my fiance was able to convince her to seek disability benefits. Disability and Social security exist to serve the workers who built/build America. They work for it and earn it.
That said, again, we need to crack down on fraud.

I don't have an answer for welfare. I think if we subsidize housing and provide food stamps, there is no additional need beyond that other than some type of phone service so that potential employers can call them back to schedule interviews, etc to get them off of welfare.

 

[Tom]

1. minorities are upset when you interfere with their right to vote. So do the elderly and disabled. Any American should be upset by laws that make it harder for other Americans to vote. And what is gained by requiring photo id ? If there's some point to it, make it easy to get one then.

2. immigration is now and always has been one of the backbones of growth in America. And blaming immigrants for everything that's wrong is also an American tradition with our bigots.

3. you're allowed to shoot someone if they try to car jack you. It's not murder. Now imagine your car is your uterus.

4. because otherwise you'd just waste your money. Think of all the jobs you create making Polident and Huggies by giving your money to babies and old people.

 

[nehalem256]

2. immigration is now and always has been one of the backbones of growth in America. And blaming immigrants for everything that's wrong is also an American tradition with our bigots.

We are talking about illegal immigrants. Not legal immigrants.

3. you're allowed to shoot someone if they try to car jack you. It's not murder. Now imagine your car is your uterus.

Except you can't loan your car to someone and then shoot them and claim they were car jacking you.

 

[Texashiker]

I think he's specifically saying the fetus at that point is non-sentient. So, the opposite of what you're saying.

The pro-life position on abortion is incoherent to me, at least those who believe abortion is the murder of a person. If you ask people who believe that abortion is murder what the punishment should be for performing an illegal abortion, they very rarely say that it should be punished by life imprisonment, the death penalty, etc.

I'll tell you straight up, life in prison or death penalty.

The 'life begins at conception' argument is even more incoherent.

Life begins when there is a heart beat.

Abortion providers should be held to the same standard as murderers. If you stop a beating heart you have committed an act of murder.

I think you mean Mother. As according to Democrats it is entirely the woman's choice whether or not the child is born.

Funny though that you will never see Democrats blaming women for CHOOSING to bring a child into poverty.

Since the woman has the right to make the choice, she should be held responsible for her decisions.

 

[fskimospy]

I'll tell you straight up, life in prison or death penalty.

I didn't say that no-one holds that opinion, just that I have met very few pro-life people who think that the millions of women who have had abortions over the years should be subject to the same penalties as murderers.

Life begins when there is a heart beat.

Abortion providers should be held to the same standard as murderers. If you stop a beating heart you have committed an act of murder.

Completely arbitrary distinction.

 

[nehalem256]

I didn't say that no-one holds that opinion, just that I have met very few pro-life people who think that the millions of women who have had abortions over the years should be subject to the same penalties as murderers.

That is because they are women. Society in general is unwilling to hold women to the same standard as men.

Why do you think that Kermit Gosnell is rotting in jail for performing illegal abortions, while the women he performed the abortions on walk free?

 

[nehalem256]

It seems that even after birth some people think that the child isn't really a person yet:

After being dismissed by local officials and U.N. delegates, the feminists changed their strategy to seeking a reduction in punishment for women who kill their children during the first hours following birth. Such a crime, punishable in the past by 35 years in prison, will now be punishable be only three to 10 years due to a controversial reform of the state's civil code.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...ficials-to-reduce-punishment-for-infanticide/

and in case you think the site is lying:

The women were released only after the state legislature reduced the penalty for the crime most were convicted of: infanticide.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/09/world/la-fg-mexico-women-prisoners-20100909

EDIT:

Of the 49 women convicted of infanticide between 1989 and 2000, only two were jailed; the rest were given probation, supervision or hospital orders.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/scrap-outdated-infanticide-law-say-judges-495016.html

Doesn't seem like society regards killing infants to be murder either... at least if the mother does it.

 

[Tom]

We are talking about illegal immigrants. Not legal immigrants.



Except you can't loan your car to someone and then shoot them and claim they were car jacking you.

I don't know what an illegal immigrant is.

Who get's to decide who uses your uterus ? You want the government to ?

 

[nehalem256]

I don't know what an illegal immigrant is.

Then maybe your opinion on immigration should be disregarded.

Who get's to decide who uses your uterus ? You want the government to ?

Society has no problems telling men what to do with their bodies. Why should I get butt-hurt if it does the same to women?

Why should a uterus be regarded as some sort of holy organ that no one should have any say over?

 

[Tom]

Then maybe your opinion on immigration should be disregarded.



Society has no problems telling men what to do with their bodies. Why should I get butt-hurt if it does the same to women?

Why should a uterus be regarded as some sort of holy organ that no one should have any say over?

I'm hoping the GOP agrees with you, and keeps on disregarding immigration reform and women's rights.

 

[HomerJS]

I'm looking for honest answers please.

1. Why is it ok for Dems to generalize and say that requiring a voter ID discriminates against minorities, arguing that minorities don't have money or transportation? If I were a minority, I would be very upset that some white guy in Washington DC was saying that I am broke and don't have a car.

2. Illegal Aliens. The argument for the longest time has been that they do the jobs American workers won't. Aren't those jobs paying below minimum wage and illegal? I'm also curious how that theory works when so many of our jobs have moved to Mexico. We won't do the jobs with low pay but we should also move the jobs with higher pay to Mexico? I can't wrap my head around that.

3. Abortion. The argument I hear most is "If you don't want one, don't have one." OK...but if we put that theory into murder, then it would be ok to murder anyone. If you don't want to murder someone, then don't do it.

4. Welfare/Social Security/Disability. Why do Democrats treat this as a God given right? Sure there should be some type of program in place in case you lose your job. That's already there. But why should I have to finance someone else's retirement? Why should I have to support 5 other families? Why should I have to support someone who doesn't want to work, so they find a doctor willing to write a bogus disability finding?


These are the things I cannot understand. Please show me where my thinking is wrong or help me to understand them?

I'll just comment on #1. Dems are not against voter id. They are against voter ID which disproportionaltly effects one group over the other.

Did you see the new voter law enacted in Texas? Names on ID must be an exact match to name on voter id when first registered. Guess who this only effects? Women and its a coincidence Wendy Davis is running for governer.

 

[nehalem256]

I'm hoping the GOP agrees with you, and keeps on disregarding immigration reform and

Calling amnesty, "immigration reform" is basically the same as calling TARP, "financial reform".

women's rights.

Abortion is at most a singular right.

 

[nehalem256]

Did you see the new voter law enacted in Texas? Names on ID must be an exact match to name on voter id when first registered. Guess who this only effects? Women and its a coincidence Wendy Davis is running for governer.

You mean I can't use an ID that doesn't have my name on it?

Who would come up with that crazy law.

 

[ivwshane]

You mean I can't use an ID that doesn't have my name on it?

Who would come up with that crazy law.

You are completely fucking retarded!

Women typically take the mans last name when they marry, oops the name no longer matches! When they divorce they sometimes change their name back, oops the names don't match!

Tell me you aren't this freaken stupid?!

 

[nehalem256]

You are completely fucking retarded!

Women typically take the mans last name when they marry, oops the name no longer matches! When they divorce they sometimes change their name back, oops the names don't match!

Maybe they should update their voter registration to match their last name?

Lets say you walk into Wells Fargo. Do you think they would let you create an account if your ID has a completely different last name than the one on your ID?

Or lets say I walk into vote with my registered name of "Thomas Johnson". You then sign saying that I am in fact "Thomas Johnson". If however I am now "Thomas Smith" would it not be perjury to sign "Thomas Johnson" as my signature?

Tell me you aren't this freaken stupid?!

I think maybe you should be asking yourself that question

 

[Daverino]

I'm looking for honest answers please.

1. Why is it ok for Dems to generalize and say that requiring a voter ID discriminates against minorities, arguing that minorities don't have money or transportation? If I were a minority, I would be very upset that some white guy in Washington DC was saying that I am broke and don't have a car.

America had over a 200 year history of government sponsored suppression of minority voting. Most of the practices used to suppress the minority vote were only outlawed within the past fifty years. The right to vote is the singular most important and enshrined right that American citizens must have. Any barrier to a person's ability to vote must clear an extremely high bar. The consequences to the country of preventing someone from voting are greater than the consequences of someone not entitled to vote casting a vote.

In other words, the Constitution requires we err on the side of allowing voters.

2. Illegal Aliens. The argument for the longest time has been that they do the jobs American workers won't. Aren't those jobs paying below minimum wage and illegal? I'm also curious how that theory works when so many of our jobs have moved to Mexico. We won't do the jobs with low pay but we should also move the jobs with higher pay to Mexico? I can't wrap my head around that.

Who is 'we' here? The primary argument for protecting the civil rights of undocumented aliens is exactly that: protecting the civil rights of undocumented aliens. It is not a 'Democratic ideal' to allow undocumented aliens to be in the country working illegally at a subhuman level. It is, however, a Christian ideal to protect undocumented aliens from civil abuses, regardless of their immigration status. In this case, I can simply answer we are doing what Jesus would do.

3. Abortion. The argument I hear most is "If you don't want one, don't have one." OK...but if we put that theory into murder, then it would be ok to murder anyone. If you don't want to murder someone, then don't do it.

Your argument is a logical fallacy. Specifically you are begging the question by introducing your conclusion as part of your premises. You are supposing that abortion and murder are equivalences when there is no proof that they are.

Let me rephrase your argument: "The argument I hear most is "If you don't want one, don't have one." OK...but if we put that theory into giving flowers, then it would be ok to give flowers to anyone. If you don't want to give flowers to someone, then don't do it."

So there's nothing to even debate here.

4. Welfare/Social Security/Disability. Why do Democrats treat this as a God given right? Sure there should be some type of program in place in case you lose your job. That's already there. But why should I have to finance someone else's retirement? Why should I have to support 5 other families? Why should I have to support someone who doesn't want to work, so they find a doctor willing to write a bogus disability finding?

The answer is simple. Because you have been supported throughout as well. The elderly to whom we provide Social Security are Americans who made the country what it is for you to enjoy. We are in their debt. In the same way that when we grow old, hopefully the youth of the country will be in our debt for continuing this great nation's path. A country as wealthy and powerful as ours should afford its citizens a basic dignity.

 

[Exophase]

Lets say you walk into Wells Fargo. Do you think they would let you create an account if your ID has a completely different last name than the one on your ID?

If they complain about the name on my ID matching the name on my ID I think I need to try a different bank.

 

[2timer]

I just have a question here. Why does this guy start a thread claiming he wants honest answers, and after he gets honest and thoughtful answers from at least 5 different people, he never bothers to show up or respond to any of the answers. So who is really being dishonest here.

 

[brycejones]

I just have a question here. Why does this guy start a thread claiming he wants honest answers, and after he gets honest and thoughtful answers from at least 5 different people, he never bothers to show up or respond to any of the answers. So who is really being dishonest here.

Obvious troll is obvious?