I live in a country that puts babies in cages

[brycejones]

Keep believing that lie!

There are enough caveats given in that article you could drive a bus through them. But I would agree that it makes the picture less clear. The biggest issue would appear the lack of consistent data at all levels of law enforcement. Even within the data set the authors were working with they couldn't distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants but that didn't stop them from making some assertions without the data to support it so I wouldn't say they are entirely objective in their research.

 

[brycejones]

Is that the best you can do?

Yup. CNN is helping out a lot to carry that water. LOL. Why are you still here? You should be on the way and tell the fathers and mothers, family members and love ones of Kate S, the lady which her husband and 2 little kids killed by ILLEGAL, and others like them how they have nothing to fear.

What's the matter cupcake?

Are you capable of discussing anything like an adult? Its like your ability to have a discussion was stunted about about your freshman year of high school.

Matters of national policy should be made based on aggregate data, not extreme outliers. BTW you realize the water you're carrying really has nothing to do with illegal immigration right? You're being manipulated (stupidly easily in your case) on this issue in order to force changes that would make it much harder to legally immigrate to this country (something you claim to be in favor of).

 

[brycejones]

Lol! Another right winger gets owned by his own citation.

Watch the bitch run away with his tail between his legs now.

Well in all fairness blackangst1 didn't know the difference between an immigration judge and a US attorney. So he was pretty much incapable of evaluating if his citation really supported his position or not.

lol

 

[Svnla]

Are you capable of discussing anything like an adult? Its like your ability to have a discussion was stunted about about your freshman year of high school.

Matters of national policy should be made based on aggregate data, not extreme outliers. BTW you realize the water you're carrying really has nothing to do with illegal immigration right? You're being manipulated (stupidly easily in your case) on this issue in order to force changes that would make it much harder to legally immigrate to this country (something you claim to be in favor of).

You are the one that want to talk about discussing like an adult? Help...help...I am choking from laughing too much....

Still here and throwing insults. Should go and tell the American victims and those two little girls that were kidnapped and raped who they should be afraid of. Tell them about outliers. I am sure they would feel a lot better, right? Preach on...preach on. Those victims are too stupid to know any better.

Goodness.

 

[Jhhnn]

There are enough caveats given in that article you could drive a bus through them. But I would agree that it makes the picture less clear. The biggest issue would appear the lack of consistent data at all levels of law enforcement. Even within the data set the authors were working with they couldn't distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants but that didn't stop them from making some assertions without the data to support it so I wouldn't say they are entirely objective in their research.

It's important to look at the actual data rather than an anti-immigration site's spin on it-

https://cis.org/sites/default/files/2018-01/USSC Data on Federal Convictions-1(10).pdf

 

[brycejones]

You are the one that want to talk about discussing like an adult? Help...help...I am choking from laughing too much....

Still here and throwing insults. Should go and tell the American victims and those two little girls that were kidnapped and raped who they should be afraid of. Preach on...preach on.

Goodness.

Actually it was a serious question. Are you capable of discussing it like an adult? Do you realize what the Trump administration's desired endgame is in this immigration debate?

 

[brycejones]

It's important to look at the actual data rather than an anti-immigration site's spin on them-

https://cis.org/sites/default/files/2018-01/USSC Data on Federal Convictions-1(10).pdf

Its why there are so many caveats in what blackangst1 linked to. The authors know it doesn't really support their position based on the facts so yeah they make assertions and then don't back them up at all.

 

[UNCjigga]

So now that some families are starting to get reunited...more horror stories coming out:
https://twitter.com/judywoodruff/status/1014998271532597248?s=21

Kid didn't get a shower for 85 days??? I'm sure that's one hell of an exception and not the norm, but still. Shows that there are vastly different standards of care at these holding facilities.

This also explains why the Administration is taking their time with reunification despite the court order...gotta make sure kids are returned in good condition and minimize exposure to potential lawsuits.

 

[UNCjigga]

So now that some families are starting to get reunited...more horror stories coming out:
https://twitter.com/judywoodruff/status/1014998271532597248?s=21

Baby didn't get a shower for 85 days??? I'm sure that's one hell of an exception and not the norm, but still. Shows that there are vastly different standards of care at these holding facilities.

This also explains why the Administration is taking their time with reunification despite the court order...gotta make sure kids are returned in good condition and minimize exposure to potential lawsuits.

 

[Jhhnn]

Actually it was a serious question. Are you capable of discussing it like an adult? Do you realize what the Trump administration's desired endgame is in this immigration debate?

Of course he knows the Trump admin endgame. He's just being coy about it.

 

[jackstar7]

Hey while you are at it, can you re-posting the links about ILLEGALS that kidnapped, raped, killed innocent people (two of them girls are sisters ages 13 and 14 that were kidnapped and raped by several ILLEGALS) that I posted in this thread? You would not want to look so biased, right?

Nothing to fear, right? Uh huh.

Oh look, CNN is soooooo hateful.... how dare they reported a story about ILLEGALS that did nasty things? - https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/04/us/ohio-alleged-sexual-assault-men-sought/index.html

You know they commit crimes a lower rate than average citizens, right? Don't need to be biased, dude. Facts are just there for you to know.

If you want to put anecdotes against broad data that's fine, but accept that you're swallowing a lot of fear. I'm just pointing it out. You seem to have a hard time dealing with it.

 

[MajinCry]

Is that the best you can do?

Yup. CNN is helping me out a lot to carry that water and MSN too by posting stories about ILLEGALS that committed crimes. LOL. Why are you still here? You should be on the way and tell the fathers and mothers, family members and love ones of Kate S, the lady which her husband and 2 little kids killed by ILLEGAL, and other innocent Americans like them who they should be afraid of. They are too stupid to know, right? They are full of hate, right? Gotta set them straight. Uh huh.

What's the matter cupcake? 😀

If we're going to be consistent, and claim that illegals are rapists, then white Americans are serial rapists.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/aic.pdf

Would you agree with that statement?

 

[SMOGZINN]

We tried a big amnesty in the 80's for several million ILLEGALS and we are planing to do another BIGGER one for 11 million ILLEGALS or more but this time, it will "work" because of reason?

Because it worked last time. The vast majority of them became legal productive tax paying citizens of the United States. That is what you say you want. That is how you accomplish it. Why are you so against doing what works?

And please start referring to illegal immigrants as what they are. Illegal.

Because they are not. That is just a flat out lie by your part. They are, at best, people suspected of committing a misdemeanor. You probably committed a similar crime on your morning commute to work this morning.

It is important to remember that a person is not 'Illegal'. They might have committed a crime, but the people themselves are not illegal.

I remember the promise of the big amnesty in the 80's (4 to 5 million of ILLEGALS IIRC) that we would not have more ILLEGALs because of this and that and so and so (too many to list). Years later and we have even more ILLEGALS. You call that as "working"?

Your logic is flawed. If we gave amnesty to 4 to 5 million people, and we had basically no chance at deporting the majority of those people, so then there are 4 to 5 million fewer than they would be otherwise. That is how math works. You can point to no evidence at all that the amnesty lead to more unlawful immigration, so the only proper conclusions is that it either reduced the number by 4-5 million, or it had an unknown effect.

If amnesty was working so great, then why no country on Earth would do that?

Other countries are doing it. That little lie is also a complete fantasy by the right wing conspiracy factory. Just a quick search finds that Brazil, Spain, and Jamaica have all offered amnesty for unlawful immigrants.

I want everyone to follow immigration rules and laws equally.

Then we should change the laws to something that works. If you have more people breaking the law then following it something is wrong with the law not the people.

I sure hope you never speed, or double park, or litter. Those are all similar crimes. That would make you an ILLEGAL too.

 

[blackangst1]

Because they are not. That is just a flat out lie by your part. They are, at best, people suspected of committing a misdemeanor. You probably committed a similar crime on your morning commute to work this morning.

It is important to remember that a person is not 'Illegal'. They might have committed a crime, but the people themselves are not illegal.

.

Why are you being so daft? You seriously dont understand the definition of an illegal immigrant? Which is exactly what I said.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Why are you being so daft? You seriously dont understand the definition of an illegal immigrant? Which is exactly what I said.

There is a important distinction between a person being illegal and an act being illegal. We, as Americans, should never allow ourselves to forget that important distinction. The rhetoric I've been hearing both here and in our national discourse in general has worked at erasing that distinction.

 

[blackangst1]

There is a important distinction between a person being illegal and an act being illegal. We, as Americans, should never allow ourselves to forget that important distinction. The rhetoric I've been hearing both here and in our national discourse in general has worked at erasing that distinction.

OK? Shall we change it "Those that immigrated here illegally" so it doesnt set you off?

Personally, until you pointed this out, Ive never interpreted it as anything else.

 

[SMOGZINN]

OK? Shall we change it "Those that immigrated here illegally" so it doesnt set you off?

Personally, until you pointed this out, Ive never interpreted it as anything else.

It is not that it 'sets me off' it is that I can see an intentional use of a framing technique. Look at how Svnla is using the word. He is not referring to an illegal act, he is most definitely using it to outright call people illegal, he even uses all caps to emphasis the difference. That is a dangerous way of thinking. I believe that we have to be carful not to allow the discussion to be framed in that way or it becomes all too easy for things like 'cleansing' to become a part of the discussion. Look how far we have already gone, I think the slippery slope argument is warranted in this case.

 

[blackangst1]

It is not that it 'sets me off' it is that I can see an intentional use of a framing technique. Look at how Svnla is using the word. He is not referring to an illegal act, he is most definitely using it to outright call people illegal, he even uses all caps to emphasis the difference. That is a dangerous way of thinking. I believe that we have to be carful not to allow the discussion to be framed in that way or it becomes all too easy for things like 'cleansing' to become a part of the discussion. Look how far we have already gone, I think the slippery slope argument is warranted in this case.

Well, OK. I guess whenever I see people in general saying "illegals" they mean illegal immigrants. And although I agree its dangerous to think of PEOPLE as illegal, Im not sure I see that intent.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Well, OK. I guess whenever I see people in general saying "illegals" they mean illegal immigrants. And although I agree its dangerous to think of PEOPLE as illegal, Im not sure I see that intent.

And as long as you see that distinction then you are okay. I don't mind you shortening the term for linguistic ease, but look at this quote from Svnla:

Yup. CNN is helping me out a lot to carry that water and MSN too by posting stories about ILLEGALS that committed crimes. LOL. Why are you still here? You should be on the way and tell the fathers and mothers, family members and love ones of Kate S, the lady which her husband and 2 little kids killed by ILLEGAL, and other innocent Americans like them who they should be afraid of. They are too stupid to know, right? They are full of hate, right? Gotta set them straight. Uh huh.

This is not the same thing as shortening the term. He is using the term as a proper noun in this quote. 'Killed by ILLEGAL ' This is a direct attempt at dehumanizing.

 

[blackangst1]

And as long as you see that distinction then you are okay. I don't mind you shortening the term for linguistic ease, but look at this quote from Svnla:



This is not the same thing as shortening the term. He is using the term as a proper noun in this quote. 'Killed by ILLEGAL ' This is a direct attempt at dehumanizing.

Well, in svnla's defense (I know he isnt popular with the liberals here), first, english isnt his first language, and second, Ive read his view on immigration many times over the years. He's PRO immigration and ANTI illegal immigration. So I guess I didnt interprate it as you did. Its easy to come to different conclusions when you view someone through already-decided-what-kind-of-person-he-is eyes. Trust me. Happens to me all the time.

*shrug*

 

[jackstar7]

Well, in svnla's defense (I know he isnt popular with the liberals here), first, english isnt his first language, and second, Ive read his view on immigration many times over the years. He's PRO immigration and ANTI illegal immigration. So I guess I didnt interprate it as you did. Its easy to come to different conclusions when you view someone through already-decided-what-kind-of-person-he-is eyes. Trust me. Happens to me all the time.

*shrug*

He's actually pro-authoritarian. He wants the laws followed, regardless of what those laws are.

 

[brycejones]

Well, in svnla's defense (I know he isnt popular with the liberals here), first, english isnt his first language, and second, Ive read his view on immigration many times over the years. He's PRO immigration and ANTI illegal immigration. So I guess I didnt interprate it as you did. Its easy to come to different conclusions when you view someone through already-decided-what-kind-of-person-he-is eyes. Trust me. Happens to me all the time.

*shrug*

I might buy his pro immigration statements if he clarified his position on the proposals to radically reduce the number of legal immigrants allowed each year which is something the Trump admin keeps pushing as a precondition to any immigration deal.

 

[Jhhnn]

He's actually pro-authoritarian. He wants the laws followed, regardless of what those laws are.

Please. He hates illegals with the burning heat of 1000 suns.

 

[Svnla]

This is not the same thing as shortening the term. He is using the term as a proper noun in this quote. 'Killed by ILLEGAL ' This is a direct attempt at dehumanizing.

Dehumanizing? Are you crying from hurt feeling because I call a spade as a spade and not the bull crap nonsense of "undocumented" from liberals?

Normal humans don't kidnap and gang up and brutally gang rape two little girls that are 13 and 14.

Let it shrunk in for a second or two.... "little girls that are 13 and 14"..... "kidnap and brutally gang rape".

As i said above to another poster previously in this thread, he should contact/talk to the fathers, the mothers, love ones, and friends of innocent American victims such as the two little girls I mentioned. He wouldn't take the offer, how about you? What do you think the family members and love ones of the victims would agree with?Me call out the ILLEGALS or you say "dehumanizing"? Come on, set them straight. Tell them about white privileges too so they should just suck it up and take it.

I am with the innocent victims and not the ILLEGALS. Don't want to be call ILLEGALS? Do it the LEGAL way as million and million around the world are doing. Oh no, that would be too much hate...grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

 

[Jhhnn]

Dehumanizing? Are you crying from hurt feeling because I call a spade as a spade and not the bull crap nonsense of "undocumented" from liberals?

Normal humans don't kidnap and gang up and brutally gang rape two little girls that are 13 and 14.

Let it shrunk in for a second or two.... "little girls that are 13 and 14"..... "kidnap and brutally gang rape".

As i said above to another poster previously in this thread, he should contact/talk to the fathers, the mothers, love ones, and friends of innocent American victims such as the two little girls I mentioned. He wouldn't take the offer, how about you? What do you think the family members and love ones of the victims would agree with?Me call out the ILLEGALS or you say "dehumanizing"? Come on, set them straight. Tell them about white privileges too so they should just suck it up and take it.

I am with the innocent victims and not the ILLEGALS. Don't want to be call ILLEGALS? Do it the LEGAL way as million and million around the world are doing. Oh no, that would be too much hate...grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

Just for you-