I live in a country that puts babies in cages

[IronWing]

Trump is effectively the entire GOP legislature. They won't do anything at this point to go against him. They are afraid they will lose their seats if they do.

The GOP could turn that around quickly if they weren't so craven.

 

[SMOGZINN]

If somebody sets your house on fire then offers the only hose for $10,000 would you consider that a good faith negotiation?

Right. People are suffering. Our top priority must be to help them, unfortunately the people that are causing the suffering has set it up so that to help those people we must allow them to profit from causing the suffering. This is the literal definition of evil.

 

[jackstar7]

The GOP could turn that around quickly if they weren't so craven.

But the GOP is, by nature, a bunch of cowards. Fear is their primary driver. They could sooner turns themselves inside-out than abandon their fear and the rhetoric that follows.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If Trump's not gonna sign you need a veto proof majority. Likelihood of that happening with his high approval among R voters in the run up to midterms is infinitesimal.

Make him veto the humane treatment of people and the securing of voters then. I've said we need to see Dem leaders doing good. Worst case here is that they try to do good, be seen as such and Trump renounces border security and embraces cruelty.

Remember November.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You're suggesting that there are rational actors on all sides. That's not proving to be the case.

No, I'm suggesting two things. One is that not everyone is thrilled with this situation on the Republican side. The other is that by introducing legislation which addresses legitimate concern on both sides Republicans will substantially tighten the noose around their necks when it comes to voters who aren't dedicated partisans. Reason and action rejected to torment children generally won't play well at the "box office", that is the voting booth.

 

[IronWing]

I agree that the non-fascists in Congress should offer legislation to rein in Trump and Sessions. The issue will be getting past Mitch McConnell. Trump won't have to veto anything as Mitch will kill anything too embarrassing before it gets out of the Senate or even gets to a vote. Mitch is the guy that killed a bill to pay our troops during the recent shutdown.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

The GOP could turn that around quickly if they weren't so craven.

I could also jerk it at my trade station to the hot girl across the way. I'm not going to do that cause I like my job... But I could...

Ok I might anyway...

 

[kitkat22]

I realized today and had a thought regarding all this. Jeff Sessions is now found in a catch-22. We need Sessions to stay put to aide in the whole Russia thing - in other words stay recused, but now have a perfect storm of an opportunity to fire Jeff for his current actions of separating families. I really hope this isn't a game that is being played to take down the investigation, especially when numerous of Trumps key election players are neck deep in troubles. It will be interesting to see what happens in a week. Will Trump miraculously change his mind and see the light and fire Sessions or will this perpetuate creating continued self-destruction for the Republican party. Only time will tell.

 

[jackstar7]

No, I'm suggesting two things. One is that not everyone is thrilled with this situation on the Republican side. The other is that by introducing legislation which addresses legitimate concern on both sides Republicans will substantially tighten the noose around their necks when it comes to voters who aren't dedicated partisans. Reason and action rejected to torment children generally won't play well at the "box office", that is the voting booth.

Your use of legitimate concern on the Republican side really makes me uneasy. How do you arrive at the conclusion that their concerns should be treated as legitimate and be addressed at all?

I get the idea you're advocating and how it would either produce something, or make things worse for Rs, but the outcome where Rs win anything right now is tricky. Their agenda has proven to be so awful across all levels that I'm not wild about extending any olive branches.

I'm also not a member of either house, and my reps are respectively very red and very blue, so I won't get anywhere urging them to the middle.

 

[ivwshane]

I think it's great that there is a bill out there. Unfortunately it offers nothing to motivate Republicans politically, hence doing something like increasing the ability to offer due process and humane conditions. If a Republican breaks with Trump he or she needs something to show their constituents, in this case a functioning and competent process.

Will Dems allow the building of detention facilities provided they are humane, leave families whole and fund sufficient personel to give due process in short order? I'm not talking years or many months, but say 90 days, hopefully less?

Would they compromise to end cruelty? I'm not saying that Republicans would be responsive, but just how many would be needed to make this happen? I don't think too many.

I like how you complain about dems not putting any bills forward to address this issue and when it's pointed out to you that they are, you then complain about them not capitulating enough to Republicans, despite being told that Democrats have even signed on to Republican bills.

You wonder why there aren't more noble politicians, its because of people like you who hold ridiculous, ever changing standards.

 

[blackangst1]

As usual there is a third way. I understand that "catch and release" into the US is unacceptable to many. I also understand that separating families is the very face of cruelty and there is no legal requirement.

Instead of arguing for a monument to Trump, that is the Wall, detain people in humane facilities and hire the necessary number of people to process those attempting to cross the border. The DHS budget is almost 41 billion and the additional amount necessary would be insignificant compared to the total.

Has ANYONE proposed this?

I agree. I hope you arent one of those who thinks this is like concentration camps....

 

[esquared]

Double down on stupid?

"Fox News doubles down on caging kids as 'essentially summer camps'"

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...-kids-essentially-summer-camps-134118150.html

Laura Ingraham picked up the slack, insisting that the nationwide protests against the Trump policy was just “faux liberal outrage.” Ingraham also said the child cages are “essentially summer camps [or] boarding schools.”

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Your use of legitimate concern on the Republican side really makes me uneasy. How do you arrive at the conclusion that their concerns should be treated as legitimate and be addressed at all?

I get the idea you're advocating and how it would either produce something, or make things worse for Rs, but the outcome where Rs win anything right now is tricky. Their agenda has proven to be so awful across all levels that I'm not wild about extending any olive branches.

I'm also not a member of either house, and my reps are respectively very red and very blue, so I won't get anywhere urging them to the middle.

It's not difficult to understand. If all republicans were for this mistreatment they would not be speaking out at all except to pull a Sanders, which many are. The point here isn't to trust anyone, but offer an opportunity as it takes very few to support a rational bill supporting everyone. Now if they don't? Then the independents and Dems who may have tossed their hands up and would not participate may tip the scale in our favor. It certainly won't hurt. A point that some seem to not understand is that I want US to take ownership of ourselves instead of letting Republicans control the playing field. Don't posture, do something of material benefit, or try, something that people won't see as just another offer that the opposition has no real motivation. Worst case Reps look terrible.

BTW, the idea of doing something constructive instead of being vindictive is unfavorable.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I like how you complain about dems not putting any bills forward to address this issue and when it's pointed out to you that they are, you then complain about them not capitulating enough to Republicans, despite being told that Democrats have even signed on to Republican bills.

You wonder why there aren't more noble politicians, its because of people like you who hold ridiculous, ever changing standards.

I said it's a good idea to be seen on record standing against this. It is you that seems satisfied that it's success is immaterial.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I agree. I hope you arent one of those who thinks this is like concentration camps....

Not precisely but the damage done is real and I find it intolerable. Some things are just wrong and politics and ideologies are irrelevant to that.

 

[dainthomas]

Double down on stupid?

"Fox News doubles down on caging kids as 'essentially summer camps'"

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...-kids-essentially-summer-camps-134118150.html

Laura Ingraham picked up the slack, insisting that the nationwide protests against the Trump policy was just “faux liberal outrage.” Ingraham also said the child cages are “essentially summer camps [or] boarding schools.”

I can't believe I've been overpaying to send my daughter to zoo camps and theater camps when all I've had to do is drop her off in an abandoned warehouse for free.

 

[ivwshane]

I said it's a good idea to be seen on record standing against this. It is you that seems satisfied that it's success is immaterial.

I'm not sure where you pulled that from but my position on anything regarding legislation in this political climate, has always been to take incremental steps and to take what you can get.

My post was simply highlighting the goal posts you keep moving. Your accusation that Democrats aren't participating in good faith in this issue is verifiably false and yet you've implied or multiple times already.

Sometimes you are just the worst.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm not sure where you pulled that from but my position on anything regarding legislation in this political climate, has always been to take incremental steps and to take what you can get.

My post was simply highlighting the goal posts you keep moving. Your accusation that Democrats aren't participating in good faith in this issue is verifiably false and yet you've implied or multiple times already.

Sometimes you are just the worst.

I am glad to be proven wrong. Next?

 

[darkswordsman17]

Double down on stupid?

"Fox News doubles down on caging kids as 'essentially summer camps'"

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...-kids-essentially-summer-camps-134118150.html

Laura Ingraham picked up the slack, insisting that the nationwide protests against the Trump policy was just “faux liberal outrage.” Ingraham also said the child cages are “essentially summer camps [or] boarding schools.”

She can send her kids there and then they can tell her about how much fun they had.

I like how you complain about dems not putting any bills forward to address this issue and when it's pointed out to you that they are, you then complain about them not capitulating enough to Republicans, despite being told that Democrats have even signed on to Republican bills.

You wonder why there aren't more noble politicians, its because of people like you who hold ridiculous, ever changing standards.

I've said about all I need to about him pushing claims like that, but he definitely needs to have that shit thrown back into his face and own his role in making politics shit.

 

[ivwshane]

I am glad to be proven wrong. Next?

You don't get it do you? The difference between you and me (personality aside) is that I'm aware of and support that our government and the speed at which big policy shifts happen, happen at a slow pace and via incremental changes. Where as you demand change to happen quickly and with precise legislation that solves issues the first time. I cannot think of a single policy where we disagree. Its the "how" where we differ and I can't help but think it's because you continuously put on these ridiculous expectations on your elected officials.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You don't get it do you? The difference between you and me (personality aside) is that I'm aware of and support that our government and the speed at which big policy shifts happen, happen at a slow pace and via incremental changes. Where as you demand change to happen quickly and with precise legislation that solves issues the first time. I cannot think of a single policy where we disagree. Its the "how" where we differ and I can't help but think it's because you continuously put on these ridiculous expectations on your elected officials.

I demand intelligence and response as appropriate whether is is now or in the future. More than that I can understand doing some things now and planning and acting in the middle and long term as well.

The difference between you and I is that I wouldn't encourage MLK to take baby steps and not make a fuss.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I never got the sense of him as an Ayn Rand guy, more of an Archie Bunker, haha. I bet if you take the anger out of it he’s still conservative but not extremely so.

Archie Bunker learned as time went on, and was fairly liberal by the end of the show. Almost as though the show was presenting the idea that ignorance breeds hatred and fear.

 

[IronWing]

Archie Bunker learned as time went on, and was fairly liberal by the end of the show. Almost as though the show was presenting the idea that ignorance breeds hatred and fear.

That always bugged me about TV series of that age. Good hard-edged characters would morph into touchy-feely types as the shows progressed. Hawkeye from MASH, the adults on the Waltons, Archie all mellowed to the point of boredom.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

That always bugged me about TV series of that age. Good hard-edged characters would morph into touchy-feely types as the shows progressed. Hawkeye from MASH, the adults on the Waltons, Archie all mellowed to the point of boredom.

Yeah, they just don't make racists like they used to.

 

[IronWing]

Yeah, they just don't make racists like they used to.

In real life it’s a good thing but it makes for bad TV.