I Don't Know If Joe Can Do It

[woolfe9998]

I think they should act with the assumption they will lose unified control of government and basically do what they think is right, regardless of the electoral consequences. In the US it is far easier to obstruct than to get something done so if you have a chance you should do it, and do as much as you can.

There is no way any electoral defeat, no matter how massive, leads to a veto proof majority for Republicans so you have at least 4 years for your policies to take root.

Yeah I understand your reasoning, and I'm on the fence with this one. I'm concerned that doing things like raising the national gas tax and/or applying a carbon tax which will increase everyone's power bills will give us another republican sweep in 2024, which is unacceptable because the GOP is essentially a fascist party at this point.

Unfortunately, too many voters tend not to take the long view.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Being called a child by someone who is completely out of touch with political reality is a hoot. I'll take criticism any time from one who has said that Trump is no worse than Biden but for being a little rude. So thanks for that.

To be fair, how is he incorrect? 87% of Democratic voters support it.

 

[woolfe9998]

It always makes me wonder - because anyone can predict these election turnouts most of the time... Why exactly don't they have sets of reps, ready to throw down already-crafted bills so they can quickly pass them the moment they get into office?

You would think they would have bills lined up for all of the following:
1) Improving healthcare (be it medicare for all, public option, etc)
2) Tax reform - close loopholes, increase taxes
3) Green new deal junk (tax benefits, etc.)
4) Infrastructure bill
5) Social security bill

Are reps just really that fucking lazy?

Just like with the Obama days, the most they could squeeze out was a turd bill for health-care reform based on a previous red-state version of how to do healthcare lol.

Dems already have the bills. More than just drafted. They've passed them in the House. They're literally sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yeah I understand your reasoning, and I'm on the fence with this one. I'm concerned that doing things like raising the national gas tax and/or applying a carbon tax which will increase everyone's power bills will give us another republican sweep in 2024, which is unacceptable because the GOP is essentially a fascist party at this point.

Unfortunately, too many voters tend not to take the long view.

Heh, just institute the tax where it isn't seen on a receipt (e.g. a VAT where it's caked in to the price of the product). Motor fuel taxes are also already baked in to the price.

People hardly even notice unless it's listed out.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Dems already have the bills. More than just drafted. They've passed them in the House. They're literally sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk.

You do realize those weren't real, right? They put up BS turd bills as a political ploy. We all know this, come on...

Like I said, see how fast those don't pass when/if they gain control in January.

 

[woolfe9998]

To be fair, how is he incorrect? 87% of Democratic voters support it.

Yet dem voters chose Biden. Probably because they thought he had the best chance to defeat Trump.

I support MFA too and would say so in a poll. I also happen to think that Biden's plan to sell Medicare is a perfect bridge to accomplishing MFA because it will make MFA more popular. MFA isn't politically feasible right now. Sanders would have had exactly zero chance to get it passed.

Trump's narrative of Biden right now is that he's beholden to the "far left." You're suggesting that the dems should, what, verify that by making the convention all about policies the center-left candidate says he doesn't support?

Since I doubt you yourself support MFA, I assume you just want them to do this to maximize their chances of losing.

 

[soundforbjt]

lol

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/29/kamala-harriss-medicare-for-all-plan-keeps-private-insurance.html

That's a year old...LOL,

 

[woolfe9998]

You do realize those weren't real, right? They put up BS turd bills as a political ploy. We all know this, come on...

Like I said, see how fast those don't pass when/if they gain control in January.

If any of those bills contain things which are political poison pills, they can be modified. The point being, they've already drafted legislation in every single area where the dems want progressive change. They won't need to start from scratch if they get elected in November.

 

[K1052]

You do realize those weren't real, right? They put up BS turd bills as a political ploy. We all know this, come on...

Like I said, see how fast those don't pass when/if they gain control in January.

Which ones do you think would not be passed if they had united control of government?

 

[Blackjack200]

That's a year old...LOL,

So what? It's her position from the primary.

 

[fskimospy]

You do realize those weren't real, right? They put up BS turd bills as a political ploy. We all know this, come on...

Like I said, see how fast those don't pass when/if they gain control in January.

I’m genuinely confused as to what you’re arguing then. Bills that will actually pass require a bunch of work and a bunch of compromise that is in large part dictated by the specific makeup of congress while the bill is being considered. The difference in what you pass when Joe Manchin is the tipping point senator vs. John Tester or whoever is probably very significant.

You can have bills that can pass immediately but don’t do much or ones that are meaningful but take time.

 

[ivwshane]

You do realize those weren't real, right? They put up BS turd bills as a political ploy. We all know this, come on...

Like I said, see how fast those don't pass when/if they gain control in January.

I love it! Complain that Democrats don't have bills ready to go and then when it's pointed out to you that they do in fact have bills ready to go, you declare them as fake.

If you wonder why people think you are a moron, that's a good example as to why.

 

[Blackjack200]

Yet dem voters chose Biden. Probably because they thought he had the best chance to defeat Trump.

I support MFA too and would say so in a poll. I also happen to think that Biden's plan to sell Medicare is a perfect bridge to accomplishing MFA because it will make MFA more popular. MFA isn't politically feasible right now. Sanders would have had exactly zero chance to get it passed.

Trump's narrative of Biden right now is that he's beholden to the "far left." You're suggesting that the dems should, what, verify that by making the convention all about policies the center-left candidate says he doesn't support?

Since I doubt you yourself support MFA, I assume you just want them to do this to maximize their chances of losing.

Healthcare stock surged after Biden won, he's promised to veto Medicare for All if it gets to his desk. You'd have to be a moron to vote for Biden if you want Medicare for all.

 

[fskimospy]

That's a year old...LOL,

Also - lol. Look who comes in at #2.

Voteview | Congress View

View, map, and investigate congressional votes throughout history, classify legislators as liberal or conservatives.

voteview.com

And imagine the horrors of not abolishing private insurance - something that would never pass Congress and would act as an electoral millstone, all so that we don’t become the dystopian health care hellscape of....Germany.

 

[Muse]

If you had doubts about Kamala Harris, I suggest you watch this. She really is full of life!

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. - Yogi Berra

76 days until the big one! Vote... vote early, vote Democratic!

 

[soundforbjt]

So what? It's her position from the primary.

She goes by the ticket's policy, not her own.

 

[Blackjack200]

She goes by the ticket's policy, not her own.

We're talking about Harris specifically, not the ticket.

 

[ewdotson]

If you had doubts about Kamala Harris, I suggest you watch this. She really is full of life!

I agree. One of the things that's really striking if one stops and thinks about it is the complete lack of anything resembling joy out of the Trump administration. Vindictive pleasure, sure. Joy? Not so much.

 

[woolfe9998]

Also - lol. Look who comes in at #2.

Voteview | Congress View

View, map, and investigate congressional votes throughout history, classify legislators as liberal or conservatives.

voteview.com

This one shows her tied for third:

ProgressivePunch: Senate Members by score / All issues

ProgressivePunch is a searchable database of Congressional voting records, from a Progressive perspective.

progressivepunch.org

Then again, the difference between 3rd and 1st is voting progressively 96.76% of the time versus 97.41% of the time.

It amuses me that a poster here who is decidedly not a liberal thinks someone with that voting record is a centrist. The argument would still be wrong if coming from a far left Bernie Bro but at least it would make sense given the person's perspective.

I think these conservative concern trolls just want to shove the dems farther left because they want them to lose.

 

[ivwshane]

Healthcare stock surged after Biden won, he's promised to veto Medicare for All if it gets to his desk. You'd have to be a moron to vote for Biden if you want Medicare for all.

Why do you continue to lie about this?

Did Biden say he would veto Medicare for All?

The topic of health care divides the Democratic presidential primary between those who call for expanding Obamacare and

www.politifact.com

 

[fskimospy]

She goes by the ticket's policy, not her own.

Really though, abolishing private insurance is a dumb idea. I’m extremely liberal and even I don’t support that. Can you imagine how insanely easy it would be to campaign against someone who is telling every single American under 65 they will lose whatever health insurance they currently have to be exchanged for some uncertain future?

There is nothing wrong with a system where everyone gets basic and decent health benefits but where those who are willing and able to spend more money can get better overall service. It’s how a lot of Europe works and it works fine.

 

[fskimospy]

I agree. One of the things that's really striking if one stops and thinks about it is the complete lack of anything resembling joy out of the Trump administration. Vindictive pleasure, sure. Joy? Not so much.

I don’t watch much convention coverage, debates, etc. because I view them as largely pointless but one thing that really stands out to me is the difference in tone between Republicans and Democrats.

Sure Democrats criticize Trump a ton but they do so in a fundamentally optimistic context (‘we are better than this’). If you listen to not only Trump but Republicans in general they have adopted his tone and world view which are insanely, insanely dark. It’s all vengeance, hatred, victimhood, and sadism.

 

[woolfe9998]

Really though, abolishing private insurance is a dumb idea. I’m extremely liberal and even I don’t support that. Can you imagine how insanely easy it would be to campaign against someone who is telling every single American under 65 they will lose whatever health insurance they currently have to be exchanged for some uncertain future?

There is nothing wrong with a system where everyone gets basic and decent health benefits but where those who are willing and able to spend more money can get better overall service. It’s how a lot of Europe works and it works fine.

Yes, politically, you're right. For now. However, it does cost a lot more to have multiple payers in the system, instead of just the single government payer. Costs a ton more in the form of bureaucracy and administration.

Then again, Biden's plan will sell the American public on Medicare being the single payer. Look at Medicare satisfaction rates with seniors and consider how that translates to tens of millions of non-retirees getting it. There is a mistrust of government here which is where the political barrier lies. Direct personal experience dispelling this is what we need before we can even consider getting rid of private insurance.

 

[ivwshane]

I don’t watch much convention coverage, debates, etc. because I view them as largely pointless but one thing that really stands out to me is the difference in tone between Republicans and Democrats.

Sure Democrats criticize Trump a ton but they do so in a fundamentally optimistic context (‘we are better than this’). If you listen to not only Trump but Republicans in general they have adopted his tone and world view which are insanely, insanely dark. It’s all vengeance, hatred, victimhood, and sadism.

You silly goose! What else are they going to talk about? All the policies they don't have or all the policies they've enabled that go against their ideology?

When you've got nothing, being the loudest guy in the room wins.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, politically, you're right. For now. However, it does cost a lot more to have multiple payers in the system, instead of just the single government payer. Costs a ton more in the form of bureaucracy and administration.

Then again, Biden's plan will sell the American public on Medicare being the single payer. Look at Medicare satisfaction rates with seniors and consider how that translates to tens of millions of non-retirees getting it. There is a mistrust of government here which is where the political barrier lies. Direct personal experience dispelling this is what we need before we can even consider getting rid of private insurance.

Why not just use the German model which has a government insurance company that covers basically everyone with private insurance on top? The government system is the default everything else must build around.