How to obtain salvation through Jesus

[JEDIYoda]

Yeah, free will is amazingly strong. If some psycho with free will wants to shoot up a church and kill the priest and worshippers that your god promised to protect from evil, that free will overpowers god and he's reduced to being an impotent spectator, watching from the sidelines, unable to act.

Why is that? How did your god make our free will greater than his will?

It`s a shame you have no real concept of free will or for that matter anything else related to scriptures. Other than your asinine foolish examples.......

 

[nakedfrog]

Both asinine and foolish?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

It`s a shame you have no real concept of free will or for that matter anything else related to scriptures. Other than your asinine foolish examples.......

I have a very good understanding of both free will and scriptures. I know who wrote the scriptures and how they became "the word of god". Do you?

No matter how you wannabelievers bitch and whine about our imperfect understanding of your invisible man in the sky, your god is a failure. A complete and utter buffoon, a liar and a murderer. If your scriptures are the words of man, you don't have a religion, you're just nerds reading fantasy lit. And if they really are the word of god, they prove god to be impotent. If they're his words, they're his promises and he reneges on them constantly. What good is a god if he can't keep his own word? And you refuse to even attempt to answer that little puzzler. So you're stuck with your classic Freudian misplaced anger, livid at your god for being utterly useless, livid at your parents for forcing you to inherit their fairy tales and livid at yourself for lacking the strength to cut the cord and admit that it's all a lie even though you kind of suspect it is. And like a textbook case, you get mad at anyone except the actual chain of culprits that has you neck deep in your delusions. I'm not the one who promised that your god would protect his flock. Supposedly he did. Maybe you might want to call him out on it, he lied to you and you just bend over and take it.

 

[John Connor]

You have to realize the problem here. It's pretty obvious.

thx for that

It's only obvious to you because you're an idiot. Read your link.

 

[Ruptga]

It's only obvious to you because you're an idiot. Read your link.

 

[JEDIYoda]

For by gracxe are you saved through faith, that not of yourself it is a gift from God, not of works lest6 any man should boast!

 

[disappoint]

Your religion is just mass delusion as the human mind can't comprehend non existence. Sorry.

What? I have one of those. A human mind that is. Also I have no problem comprehending non existence. Anyone here have a problem comprehending non existence?

JSt0rm, can you imagine something that doesn't exist? If so, do you have a human mind or some other kind?

 

[disappoint]

Yeah, free will is amazingly strong. If some psycho with free will wants to shoot up a church and kill the priest and worshippers that your god promised to protect from evil, that free will overpowers god and he's reduced to being an impotent spectator, watching from the sidelines, unable to act.

Why is that? How did your god make our free will greater than his will?

I have a very good understanding of both free will and scriptures. I know who wrote the scriptures and how they became "the word of god". Do you?

Since you like the topic of free will so much and have such a good understanding of it, perhaps you'd like to discuss it further in this thread: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...ut-the-concept-of-time.2478702/#post-38417217

Where instead of shooting fish in a barrel picking on worshipers, you could challenge yourself to discuss a topic more suited to someone interested in science more than worship.

No matter how you wannabelievers bitch and whine about our imperfect understanding of your invisible man in the sky, your god is a failure. A complete and utter buffoon, a liar and a murderer. If your scriptures are the words of man, you don't have a religion, you're just nerds reading fantasy lit. And if they really are the word of god, they prove god to be impotent. If they're his words, they're his promises and he reneges on them constantly. What good is a god if he can't keep his own word? And you refuse to even attempt to answer that little puzzler. So you're stuck with your classic Freudian misplaced anger, livid at your god for being utterly useless, livid at your parents for forcing you to inherit their fairy tales and livid at yourself for lacking the strength to cut the cord and admit that it's all a lie even though you kind of suspect it is. And like a textbook case, you get mad at anyone except the actual chain of culprits that has you neck deep in your delusions. I'm not the one who promised that your god would protect his flock. Supposedly he did. Maybe you might want to call him out on it, he lied to you and you just bend over and take it.

I haven't seen any evidence that he is livid at his god, have you? Perhaps you were projecting your own thoughts onto him. Maybe you're the one who is angry that there is no god to save you from the suffering that human beings sometimes must face. I'm not saying you were aware of it though. Classic Freudian psychology will only get you so far. We've learned a lot about the human mind since then.

Perhaps if you spent as much time learning new concepts and opening your mind to new ideas as the time you spend telling believers to, you could grow as a person in as much the same way as you're asking them to. Only if you're up to the challenge though.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The problem with all your invitations to discuss is that both partys need to have open minds..........you are misleading when you use the word discus! What you mean to sday was if you desire to get pounded into oblivion for your beliefs by closed mind people.....

 

[Gibsons]

It's only obvious to you because you're an idiot. Read your link.

So, it's not obvious to you?

 

[Gibsons]

.you are misleading when you use the word discus!

Yes, it's an ambiguous term.

 

[Puffnstuff]

My how we've become polyglotal.

 

[renz20003]

Let's say you install a fresh copy of Windows or whatever os you prefer.

And over time from your porn downloading and malware installs it gets slow and your back account gets hacked.

Is that microsofts fault? No it's not, they just provided the part of the resources. To say it's all gods fault or that there is no God because bad things happens
is a poor argument.

 

[lxskllr]

Let's say you install a fresh copy of Windows or whatever os you prefer.

And over time from your porn downloading and malware installs it gets slow and your back account gets hacked.

Is that microsofts fault? No it's not, they just provided the part of the resources. To say it's all gods fault or that there is no God because bad things happens
is a poor argument.

If MS was omnipotent, and created all that's computing, I would hold them accountable.

 

[renz20003]

If MS was omnipotent, and created all that's computing, I would hold them accountable.

Fair enough, my apologies for the crappy analogy.

 

[SMOGZINN]

What? I have one of those. A human mind that is. Also I have no problem comprehending non existence. Anyone here have a problem comprehending non existence?

JSt0rm, can you imagine something that doesn't exist? If so, do you have a human mind or some other kind?

I'm having a little problem with it. Is it like when you are with someone and they order pizza with out the sauce?

 

[disappoint]

I'm having a little problem with it. Is it like when you are with someone and they order pizza with out the sauce?

Well that depends. Is this someone you are with imaginary or real?

 

[MtnMan]

If religion is the only thing keeping you from being a horrible person, you are already a horrible person.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Let's say you install a fresh copy of Windows or whatever os you prefer.

And over time from your porn downloading and malware installs it gets slow and your back account gets hacked.

Is that microsofts fault? No it's not, they just provided the part of the resources. To say it's all gods fault or that there is no God because bad things happens
is a poor argument.

Instead, let's suppose that Jack is a perfect marksman with his pistol.

Everything that Jack shoots at, Jack hits, dead center, every time. It is literally impossible for Jack to miss. He knows where his bullets are going even before he pulls the trigger.

One day Jack shoots his gun and it hits Jane right in the heart, killing her.

Now, is it the bullet's fault that Jane's dead, or is it Jack's fault?

Suppose instead of Jack choosing where to point his gun it was instead God choosing which universe to create. If God knows all the places that his creation will go before he creates it, how are those things not his fault?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Instead, let's suppose that Jack is a perfect marksman with his pistol.

Everything that Jack shoots at, Jack hits, dead center, every time. It is literally impossible for Jack to miss. He knows where his bullets are going even before he pulls the trigger.

One day Jack shoots his gun and it hits Jane right in the heart, killing her.

Now, is it the bullet's fault that Jane's dead, or is it Jack's fault?

Suppose instead of Jack choosing where to point his gun it was instead God choosing which universe to create. If God knows all the places that his creation will go before he creates it, how are those things not his fault?

Even more importantly, let's say that God is truly the god of the bible, the Koran, the Torah, the Joy of Cooking Pasta, whatever and that those books are really god's word and that he's not a lying sack of shit. He imbues everyone with free will, but he also has a plan. And the free will of man is permissible as long as it doesn't counteract what god wants. You're allowed to pick your wife and your career and where to live, what to have for dinner, what kind of car to drive, etc. But the almighty invisible man vows to protect people from evil, so if your free will is to grab a gun and shoot up a church, god > you. He protects his people because he promised to do it. It's right there in the books in his very own words. Cut and dried.

God doesn't need to know what's going to happen in advance. He doesn't need to create a universe where Jack shoots Jane. He creates a universe where Jack is free to play with guns and where God will protect Jane because he has a plan for her. He's omnipotent and omniscient. He knows where that bullet will hit the moment it leaves the barrel and he has the ability to deflect it or go all Matrix on its ass and just stop it in mid-air. He's God, he farted the universe out of his ass, stopping a bullet would be child's play. He doesn't need to script Jack's actions millions of years in advance, he just needs to keep his word. That's it. God just has to keep his own infallible word. We have free will and he protects his flock. Easy peasy. All it takes is a real god with the ethics to keep his word and the system works flawlessly.

So why is the system broken? Where is god? He promises to do things and disappears. The people who claim to believe in him should demand answers, not constantly re-invent their belief system to account for his failures.

 

[renz20003]

Instead, let's suppose that Jack is a perfect marksman with his pistol.

Everything that Jack shoots at, Jack hits, dead center, every time. It is literally impossible for Jack to miss. He knows where his bullets are going even before he pulls the trigger.

One day Jack shoots his gun and it hits Jane right in the heart, killing her.

Now, is it the bullet's fault that Jane's dead, or is it Jack's fault?

Suppose instead of Jack choosing where to point his gun it was instead God choosing which universe to create. If God knows all the places that his creation will go before he creates it, how are those things not his fault?

I don't think he does know.

 

[IronWing]

I don't think he does know.

It's all up to you.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Well that depends. Is this someone you are with imaginary or real?

Just for arguments sake, lets say the person is real but they are not really there.

 

[LevelSea]

Both asinine and foolish?

That's quite an astute and insightful observation.

 

[IronWing]

Just for arguments sake, lets say the person is real but they are not really there.

Well, that makes some sense. If they were not real but they were really there, we'd call them bodacious tatas, not gods.