How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC

[toyota]

If by "better settings" you mean higher mesh and texture resolution because I know you didn't completely ignore my comment about shader complexity.

lol I love how you think running settings that use more vram dont also require more gpu power.

 

[AnandThenMan]

FFS, fanboyism is turning peoples brain to mush. It's not JUST about the amount of memory, it's how it will be utilized. The PS4's GPU can directly share data with the CPU, and in fact can even bypass the CPU cache. If you took a high end GPU and put it into the same on-die configuration with a fast CPU, it would annihilate similar hardware in the traditional CPU/GPU configuration.

 

[toyota]

Chicken and egg problem.

No game requires 8GB of VRAM yet because it doesn't exist.
No game requires PCIe 32x because it doesn't exist.

As soon as these features become ubiquitous, developers will use them.

and when we have those features we will have FASTER gpus which is something you cant seem to grasp.

 

[cmdrdredd]

FFS, fanboyism is turning peoples brain to mush. It's not JUST about the amount of memory, it's how it will be utilized. The PS4's GPU can directly share data with the CPU, and in fact can even bypass the CPU cache. If you took a high end GPU and put it into the same on-die configuration with a fast CPU, it would annihilate similar hardware but in the traditional CPU/GPU configuration.

Why hasn't AMD done it and instead released underpowered APU designs that don't really say "hey now you don't need to buy a 7970"? Cause you aren't going to run Crysis 3 or Battlefield 4 on an APU.

 

[Rakehellion]

lol I love how you think running settings that use more vram dont also require more gpu power.

You'll take a performance hit, but nothing that requires upgrading from a GTX 650 to a 680.

-Increasing mesh complexity will increase the number of vertex shaders that are run.
-Increasing texture resolution will increase memory bandwidth that's required.

But 90% of what your GPU is doing is processing fragment shaders, which don't really care how much VRAM you have.

 

[Rakehellion]

and when we have those features we will have FASTER gpus which is something you cant seem to grasp.

And even without faster GPUs, we now have those features in the PS4, which you can't seem to grasp.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Why hasn't AMD done it and instead released underpowered APU designs that don't really say "hey now you don't need to buy a 7970"? Cause you aren't going to run Crysis 3 or Battlefield 4 on an APU.

It's cell all over again. Living on a hype train!!!!

 

[Rakehellion]

Why hasn't AMD done it and instead released underpowered APU designs that don't really say "hey now you don't need to buy a 7970"? Cause you aren't going to run Crysis 3 or Battlefield 4 on an APU.

Because that would require completely redesigning how a computer is built, how software is programmed, and the economy behind upgrading.

 

[Olikan]

Why hasn't AMD done it and instead released underpowered APU designs that don't really say "hey now you don't need to buy a 7970"? Cause you aren't going to run Crysis 3 or Battlefield 4 on an APU.

time to market...

http://uk.hardware.info/news/31510/nvidia-maxwell-gpu-integrates-64-bits-arm-processor-in-2014

 

[toyota]

And even without faster GPUs, we now have those features in the PS4, which you can't seem to grasp.

no we dont necessarily have anywhere near 8gb of vram for the ps4. and really you are not making any sense. you say some pretty silly stuff then just ignore it when you are called on it. we dont have 8gb of vram now because we dont have gpus that can run settings that need that much vram. that is a fact. you keep acting as if gpu makers just stick more vram on the gpus that we can magically run better settings.

 

[cmdrdredd]

It's cell all over again. Living on a hype train!!!!

I'm serious though. I would have thought that AMD would be pushing this hard for the PC if it really was all that. Perhaps it's only really beneficial to special applications.

time to market...

http://uk.hardware.info/news/31510/nvidia-maxwell-gpu-integrates-64-bits-arm-processor-in-2014

Is that even the same? That seems to integrate a CPU on the GPU which doesn't replace your i7 and GTX 680 with one chip that does both.

 

[Rakehellion]

no we dont necessarily have anywhere near 8gb of vram for the ps4.

On the contrary, we have something very near 8GB for the PS4.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Why hasn't AMD done it and instead released underpowered APU designs that don't really say "hey now you don't need to buy a 7970"? Cause you aren't going to run Crysis 3 or Battlefield 4 on an APU.

You are completely missing the point. But to answer your question, the PS4 APU in a desktop machine would most definitely be better than a 7970 with your average CPU, IF it did not run Windows but instead a highly specific/tuned OS. See how that works? Now put a 7970 class GPU as the base for an APU, and use THAT in a PS4 like desktop system, and it would kill the same traditional PC hardware.

It's cell all over again. Living on a hype train!!!!

They are completely different, but that won't stop you from trolling as per your standard MO.

 

[Rakehellion]

I'm serious though. I would have thought that AMD would be pushing this hard for the PC if it really was all that. Perhaps it's only really beneficial to special applications.

It's only good for games.
And the games would have to be reprogrammed to take advantage of it.
And everyone would have to buy new hardware.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

They are completely different, but that won't stop you from trolling as per your standard MO.

The products change, the hype stays the same.

I think you know that, and it's probably a mirror you're looking into not a monitor.

 

[Rakehellion]

Seriously, you know zero about how the system will function same as me.

No, but I can come up with some numbers that will be very close if I use common sense and history as a base rather than paranoia and skepticism.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I am a PC gaming elitist in the extreme, but I am also a realist. What the rest of the PC gaming master race is failing miserably to comprehend is that the high end pc you are comparing the xbox 360 and ps3 to at release was using less than 250 watts total system power. The same will apply to the hardware in the ps4. Its the highest end GPU and CPU they can currently use and keep power usage at an acceptable level for a small form factor box that sits under your TV. Stop comparing it to your 1200 watt behemoth.

 

[AnandThenMan]

The products change, the hype stays the same.

To you yes, because you refuse to look, let alone begin to understand any of the technical details.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I am a PC gaming elitist in the extreme, but I am also a realist. What the rest of the PC gaming master race is failing miserably to comprehend is that the high end pc you are comparing the xbox 360 and ps3 to at release was using less than 250 watts total system power. The same will apply to the hardware in the ps4. Its the highest end GPU and CPU they can currently use and keep power usage at an acceptable level for a small form factor box that sits under your TV. Stop comparing it to your 1200 watt behemoth.

Why stop comparing? The fact that I have all that power or can have it should debunk the whole title of this thread. Especially when Maxwell from Nvidia should be here next year and Haswell from Intel.

I didn't write the title.

 

[toyota]

I am a PC gaming elitist in the extreme, but I am also a realist. What the rest of the PC gaming master race is failing miserably to comprehend is that the high end pc you are comparing the xbox 360 and ps3 to at release was using less than 250 watts total system power. The same will apply to the hardware in the ps4. Its the highest end GPU and CPU they can currently use and keep power usage at an acceptable level for a small form factor box that sits under your TV. Stop comparing it to your 1200 watt behemoth.

um my pc uses not even use 250 actual watts even in demanding games. locked at 30 fps and low res I would not even use 150 watts.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

To you yes, because you refuse to look, let alone begin to understand any of the technical details.

I see, I have nothing substantial to go on. However I'm not commenting on the tech, we aren't hearing this from AMD or Sony we're hearing it from forum users who insist on painting draw calls as gpu performance.

Of course AMD is going to hype their own product, have you already forgotten about Bulldozer?

As a long time AMD users I might be a bit cynical, I can admit that, but until I see the pudding, there is no proof.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Why stop comparing? The fact that I have all that power or can have it should debunk the whole title of this thread. Especially when Maxwell from Nvidia should be here next year and Haswell from Intel.

I didn't write the title.

So in other words, no matter how powerful the PS4 might be, you can still built something faster on the PC side because you don't care about power or cost. And in a couple of years you can build something even faster! Great point there, you've mastered the obvious. Suppose the thread title said, How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC given the same power/monetary budget

Is that better? Now if you would read even a little bit into the title (not to mention the tech details of the PS4) and what it means, you would already realize that's what is being said.

 

[cmdrdredd]

um my pc uses about about 200 real watts even in demanding games. locked ta 30 fps and low res I would not even use 150 watts.

This is potentially true. I've never measured my own system.

Still this whole thing is pretty silly. Sony wants to sell the PS4. They hope people forgo a PC upgrade perhaps in order to grab one. They hope to slow down the PC gaming surge that has occurred over the last couple of years. They want to reinvigorate their company. They are thus far doing a fantastic job of that with the Playstation brand. Lets be honest though, they are talking up all the benefits of the architecture they have chosen. It looks to be a great fit for the console. AMD is al;so using this to downplay Nvidia or at least get some spotlight time. That's fine.

What isn't fine is making a blanket statement about how it's "better" than a PC. Better is not something that can always be measured. Better how? We take it to mean "more powerful" or "more capable". Both of which may or may not be true. For someone with an overclocked i7 and SLI or a GTX Titan it's hard to fathom how it could possibly be "better". Maybe to the guy with the 3770 (non k) and a GTX 650 it's better or potentially better. What if next year that guy upgrades to Haswell and a Maxwell GPU? Still better? Doubtful.

Sony wants to sell it, AMD wants to sell their tech. Both will make money on the PS4 (over the lifetime of the console). Sony also wants to encourage developers to buy into it as well. Don't fool yourself thinking that's not what this really is, a huge sales pitch. Yes in some ways it might use resources more efficiently, but what does better really mean?

So in other words, no matter how powerful the PS4 might be, you can still built something faster on the PC side because you don't care about power or cost. And in a couple of years you can build something even faster! Great point there, you've mastered the obvious. Suppose the thread title said, How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC given the same power/monetary budget

Is that better? Now if you would read even a little bit into the title (not to mention the tech details of the PS4) and what it means, you would already realize that's what is being said.

That's not what a lot of people were saying in this thread if you read the entire thing. That's the whole issue here. Some are saying the PS4 makes a gaming PC worthless...

 

[BallaTheFeared]

My i3-540 overclocked to 3.8GHz with an undervolted 7950 @ 800 core uses 177~ watts in games total system and the i3 nor the board are as efficient as things today. Next month when haswell comes out they'll look really bad.

 

[AnandThenMan]

That's not what a lot of people were saying in this thread if you read the entire thing. That's the whole issue here. Some are saying the PS4 makes a gaming PC worthless...

I've read this entire thread and don't recall anyone saying this. But if they did, that would be stupid. What IS being said, or what is accurate, is the PS4 has far more synergistic hardware and will be able to do more with less hardware versus the PC.

But the great thing is this time, that same hardware will come to the PC side. In fact, it is inevitable that the CPU and GPU will become one device with a single memory pool. The PCIe bus is obsolete.