How many in here are familiar with Evangelicals?

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Mill
Never called him a troll. I said his post was one. Now, you on the other hand. I better not comment.

Fine, please PM me why his /her post was a troll if you can back it up.

 

[Rob9874]

I would assume Anne is a she.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall

Or anti-religious indoctrination.

What kind of anti-religious indoctrination are you talking about?

Those who reject the Bible without ever reading it.

I read that crap. I use to have to go to Sunday school and learn about "Jesus Hallelujah" when I was young.

When you have free time, read the Bible without any pretense of emotion or goal of purpose. Since you already seem to be familiar with the Gospel, a sequential reading from beginning to end might be beneficial. Send me a PM when you're done.

No, I have no desire to read anymore of that Bullsh!t. Frankly I found Greek Mythology more interesting than Christian Mythology (and neither were a favorite of mine)

 

[Gen Stonewall]

RD, don't accuse me again of being bigoted or close-minded. You've forfeited your authority to do so.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall
RD, don't accuse me again of being bigoted or close-minded. You've forfeited your authority to do so.

No I haven't. You are a fan of Michael Savage do you definately are close minded and a Bigot!

 

[cquark]

When you have free time, read the Bible without any pretense of emotion or goal of purpose. Since you already seem to be familiar with the Gospel, a sequential reading from beginning to end might be beneficial. Send me a PM when you're done.

Which bible?

I read the NIV Bible the same year that I read The Iliad and The Once and Future King. It never occurred to me at the time that anyone would treat Christian mythology any differently than Greek or early British mythology, as I hadn't had anyone proselytize Christianity to me yet.

 

[Gen Stonewall]

Originally posted by: cquark

When you have free time, read the Bible without any pretense of emotion or goal of purpose. Since you already seem to be familiar with the Gospel, a sequential reading from beginning to end might be beneficial. Send me a PM when you're done.

Which bible?

I read the NIV Bible the same year that I read The Iliad and The Once and Future King. It never occurred to me at the time that anyone would treat Christian mythology any differently than Greek or early British mythology, as I hadn't had anyone proselytize Christianity to me yet.

Fulfillment of prophecy is what separates the two.

 

[Gen Stonewall]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall
RD, don't accuse me again of being bigoted or close-minded. You've forfeited your authority to do so.

No I haven't. You are a fan of Michael Savage do you definately are close minded and a Bigot!

You have no idea what my actual opinion of Savage is or how closely I agree with him.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall

Originally posted by: cquark

When you have free time, read the Bible without any pretense of emotion or goal of purpose. Since you already seem to be familiar with the Gospel, a sequential reading from beginning to end might be beneficial. Send me a PM when you're done.

Which bible?

I read the NIV Bible the same year that I read The Iliad and The Once and Future King. It never occurred to me at the time that anyone would treat Christian mythology any differently than Greek or early British mythology, as I hadn't had anyone proselytize Christianity to me yet.

Fulfillment of prophecy is what separates the two.

Unsurprisingly, prophecy is only ever fulfilled in retrospect, and then sometimes rather badly, as in the Gospel of Matthew's misinterpretations of Hebrew scriptures, which were used to add aspects to the Jesus myth later. Of course, such events are completely typical of how great men were treated at the time in their life stories; a miraculous birth and prodigical childhood were necessary additions to the story of any great man. Looking at the early Roman Empire, we find many such myths and historical additions from the Caesars semi-divine ancestry to the miraculous healings of Aescelpius.

 

[Spamela]

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall
RD, don't accuse me again of being bigoted or close-minded. You've forfeited your authority to do so.

No I haven't. You are a fan of Michael Savage do you definately are close minded and a Bigot!

You have no idea what my actual opinion of Savage is or how closely I agree with him.

ok, i'll bite. what is your opinion of him, then?

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: cquark

Unsurprisingly, prophecy is only ever fulfilled in retrospect, and then sometimes rather badly, as in the Gospel of Matthew's misinterpretations of Hebrew scriptures, which were used to add aspects to the Jesus myth later. Of course, such events are completely typical of how great men were treated at the time in their life stories; a miraculous birth and prodigical childhood were necessary additions to the story of any great man. Looking at the early Roman Empire, we find many such myths and historical additions from the Caesars semi-divine ancestry to the miraculous healings of Aescelpius.

OK, and George Washington didn't cut down the cherry tree, but I still believe he was our 1st president. Even without seeing it with my own eyes. Why do you believe that? Because books claim it to be true, and many others believe it?

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: cquark

Unsurprisingly, prophecy is only ever fulfilled in retrospect, and then sometimes rather badly, as in the Gospel of Matthew's misinterpretations of Hebrew scriptures, which were used to add aspects to the Jesus myth later. Of course, such events are completely typical of how great men were treated at the time in their life stories; a miraculous birth and prodigical childhood were necessary additions to the story of any great man. Looking at the early Roman Empire, we find many such myths and historical additions from the Caesars semi-divine ancestry to the miraculous healings of Aescelpius.

OK, and George Washington didn't cut down the cherry tree, but I still believe he was our 1st president. Even without seeing it with my own eyes. Why do you believe that? Because books claim it to be true, and many others believe it?

There are major differences in the level of evidence that George Washington was our first President (under the Constitution; there were prior Presidents under the Articles of Confederation) and that Jesus was born from a virgin. The virgin myth is more akin to the cherry tree myth than the fact that Washington was the first POTUS.

We actually have historical documents from the lifetime of Washington testifying to the fact that he was the first POTUS. We do not have any historical records from the lifetime of Jesus recording his life. The best we have dates from around 80AD and it's a tattered credit-card sized fragment of 2nd generation (at best) copy of the Gospel of Mark.

We have many historical documents from different perspectives from his time that all agree that Washington was the first POTUS. The indirect copies of documents written after the death of Jesus do not all agree that Jesus had a virgin birth. It appears to be an event added to the story after the Gospel of Mark was written, based on Matthew's misinterpretation of Hebrew prophecies as requiring the Messiah to be born of a virgin.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Mill
Never called him a troll. I said his post was one. Now, you on the other hand. I better not comment.

Fine, please PM me why his /her post was a troll if you can back it up.

I am not going to PM you, dude. Let it go, and get attention elsewhere.

 

[Gen Stonewall]

Unsurprisingly, prophecy is only ever fulfilled in retrospect, and then sometimes rather badly, as in the Gospel of Matthew's misinterpretations of Hebrew scriptures, which were used to add aspects to the Jesus myth later. Of course, such events are completely typical of how great men were treated at the time in their life stories; a miraculous birth and prodigical childhood were necessary additions to the story of any great man. Looking at the early Roman Empire, we find many such myths and historical additions from the Caesars semi-divine ancestry to the miraculous healings of Aescelpius.

Prophecy regarding Israel is being fulfilled right now. (The idea that Israel would ever exist again, which was prophesied in the Bible, is quite amazing, considering that the kingdom fell apart over 2500 years ago.)

 

[Gen Stonewall]

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall
RD, don't accuse me again of being bigoted or close-minded. You've forfeited your authority to do so.

No I haven't. You are a fan of Michael Savage do you definately are close minded and a Bigot!

You have no idea what my actual opinion of Savage is or how closely I agree with him.

ok, i'll bite. what is your opinion of him, then?

I mostly agree with these, taken from his website:

1. Support Traditional Marriage
2. Close the Borders now.
3. Deport all illegal immigrants now.
4. Eliminate bilingual education in all states.
5. Require health tests for all recent foreign born immigrants.
6. Make tax cuts permanent.
7. End Affirmative Action
8. Tort Reform - Stop Class Action Lawyers.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall

Unsurprisingly, prophecy is only ever fulfilled in retrospect, and then sometimes rather badly, as in the Gospel of Matthew's misinterpretations of Hebrew scriptures, which were used to add aspects to the Jesus myth later. Of course, such events are completely typical of how great men were treated at the time in their life stories; a miraculous birth and prodigical childhood were necessary additions to the story of any great man. Looking at the early Roman Empire, we find many such myths and historical additions from the Caesars semi-divine ancestry to the miraculous healings of Aescelpius.

Prophecy regarding Israel is being fulfilled right now. (The idea that Israel would ever exist again, which was prophesied in the Bible, is quite amazing, considering that the kingdom fell apart over 2500 years ago.)

No, it's not amazing at all when people who read the Bible decided to create a new state and give it the same name but different borders and government. It's no more amazing than the nation of Italy emerging in the 19th century after more than a millenium of nonexistence.

 

[Gen Stonewall]

No, it's not amazing at all when people who read the Bible decided to create a new state and give it the same name but different borders and government. It's no more amazing than the nation of Italy emerging in the 19th century after more than a millenium of nonexistence.

The Bible said also that Jerusalem would become a burden upon the whole world, and one day the nations would grow to hate Israel. We see both of those happening today.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall

No, it's not amazing at all when people who read the Bible decided to create a new state and give it the same name but different borders and government. It's no more amazing than the nation of Italy emerging in the 19th century after more than a millenium of nonexistence.

The Bible said also that Jerusalem would become a burden upon the whole world, and one day the nations would grow to hate Israel. We see both of those happening today.

And to think, we have a President who believes in Armageddon:Q

 

[Steeplerot]

http://www.derfcity.com/o/atheist.html

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: cquark
There are major differences in the level of evidence that George Washington was our first President (under the Constitution; there were prior Presidents under the Articles of Confederation) and that Jesus was born from a virgin. The virgin myth is more akin to the cherry tree myth than the fact that Washington was the first POTUS.

We actually have historical documents from the lifetime of Washington testifying to the fact that he was the first POTUS. We do not have any historical records from the lifetime of Jesus recording his life. The best we have dates from around 80AD and it's a tattered credit-card sized fragment of 2nd generation (at best) copy of the Gospel of Mark.

We have many historical documents from different perspectives from his time that all agree that Washington was the first POTUS. The indirect copies of documents written after the death of Jesus do not all agree that Jesus had a virgin birth. It appears to be an event added to the story after the Gospel of Mark was written, based on Matthew's misinterpretation of Hebrew prophecies as requiring the Messiah to be born of a virgin.

Your entire argument regarding a requirement for historical proof that an event happened for it to have actually happened is ridiculous. I can postulate, for example, that someone was murdered in Iraq somewhere around 500 BC. I don't have any evidence to support this claim, but would you dispute it?

The greater flaw is that you're trying to argue a matter of faith while basing your argument solely on the existence of historical record.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: cquark
There are major differences in the level of evidence that George Washington was our first President (under the Constitution; there were prior Presidents under the Articles of Confederation) and that Jesus was born from a virgin. The virgin myth is more akin to the cherry tree myth than the fact that Washington was the first POTUS.

We actually have historical documents from the lifetime of Washington testifying to the fact that he was the first POTUS. We do not have any historical records from the lifetime of Jesus recording his life. The best we have dates from around 80AD and it's a tattered credit-card sized fragment of 2nd generation (at best) copy of the Gospel of Mark.

We have many historical documents from different perspectives from his time that all agree that Washington was the first POTUS. The indirect copies of documents written after the death of Jesus do not all agree that Jesus had a virgin birth. It appears to be an event added to the story after the Gospel of Mark was written, based on Matthew's misinterpretation of Hebrew prophecies as requiring the Messiah to be born of a virgin.

Your entire argument regarding a requirement for historical proof that an event happened for it to have actually happened is ridiculous.

You call the idea of evidence of historical events happening ridiculous, and you wonder why people call you a troll...

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: cquark
You call the idea of evidence of historical events happening ridiculous, and you wonder why people call you a troll...

Failed attempt at misrepresentation, and not even a good one. You are arguing that no historical event could have happened if we don't have direct evidence of it. If you can't see the fallacy, then sorry for you and your family.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
sorry for you and your family.

Cyclowizard, what is with bringing people's family into the equation?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

My post was, in a nutshell, meant to provoke some meaningful discussion on the origins of Christianity and to understand the rational of Christians in America.

I went to a Catholic highschool for four years, read my share of the Bible, and have still come to the same conclusions. In fact, before I went to highscool I believed that Jesus might actually be the Son of God.

What it comes down to is that the religious right canont prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Jesus was or is the Son of God, or that Christianity is the one true religion, or that God even exists. You believe these things because you have FAITH that they are true, not because they are true. You cannot use the Bible as your proof, that is a cyclical argument since you cannot prove the Bible was written by God.

 

[Gen Stonewall]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall

No, it's not amazing at all when people who read the Bible decided to create a new state and give it the same name but different borders and government. It's no more amazing than the nation of Italy emerging in the 19th century after more than a millenium of nonexistence.

The Bible said also that Jerusalem would become a burden upon the whole world, and one day the nations would grow to hate Israel. We see both of those happening today.

And to think, we have a President who believes in Armageddon:Q