I've always assumed it was because they take the bible on its most basic level (ie: literally).
the Jesuits had the notion of a 100% literal bible knocked out of my head by the time I was 14.
I've always assumed it was because they take the bible on its most basic level (ie: literally).
the Jesuits had the notion of a 100% literal bible knocked out of my head by the time I was 14.
No the process of being born again results in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within the believer's own spirit. The Bible is clear that the Holy Spirit comes once and stays permanently, so being born again is a single event.
Originally posted by: stratman
But to Rob and Infohawk: you guys getting all personal about the definition of born again?! You both admitted that it can mean either one. Life is too short to spend on issues like that
Yes, William James talks about the same thing when discussing Pragmatism. I acknowledged that there are 2 meanings. I was trying to get him to as well.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,783
- 6,341
- 126
That's the speil anyway. It is merely a Repentance, talking in Tongues or other manifestations is not the Mark of it, a True change and the bearing of the Fruit of that change is the True Mark. Anyone can babble, self induce convulsions, and other Manifestations, but only the few can truly be Born Again into a new Life.
Yes, James says that those who do not produce fruits (or do good works) would indicate that they are not true Christians. But the seal of becoming a true Christian (being born again) is a single event; the fruits are indications of that event (and indications that the Holy Spirit is continually working within the believer).
If you'd ask, I'd volunteer to pay for your reading lessons so you could take the time to address what I said, rather than just take one sentence out of context.
Is preaching really the same thing as forcing their views on you? Are they abducting people and taking them to church? Not that I'm aware of. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with their approach (as I don't for the most part), but it is an approach that falls under the premise of freedom of speech/expression/religion. Until someone can point out why they are not privy to these same rights, I'll continue to support their expression of them. From the evangelicals I know, they believe that what they have is analagous to the cure to a disease that is suffered by every member of humanity. If you had such a cure, I would hope you would do your darndest to make other people aware of it. Obviously, you can't force anyone to be cured when they don't want to be, but you would be completely remiss if you didnt' at least offer the opportunity.
Faith. If you have faith, then there is no proof required, nor would proof even stengthen your beliefs. It is impossible to completely describe to someone that doesn't have it, but the evangelicals try their best to explain what it is they have. The base Christian teachings are founded on solid ethics - I don't believe that anyone could really think that God would really want things that were unethical.
Ah, so we're to the crux of the matter. Here you make a very good analgoy - comparing the premise of liberalism and Christianity. Why is it so different for someone to tell you about their religion than it is for people on this forum to tell me about liberalism? Many people discuss and debate politics in person, why not religion? I have one answer to this, but I want to see if you arrive at the same conclusion before I give you my thoughts.
Well, the entire message is not the same in all faiths, to be sure, but the underlying principles are the same (really, be nice to everyone
). Obviously each faith has individual teachings that are unique, but the core of the religion is really common to all (Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism at least).Nice post. :thumbsup:
These things all go to the common good rather than the individual good. I don't take issue with giving to groups, only taking money from me and giving it directly to someone else after the government skims off its 80% overhead. Note that I'm actually pretty fiscally liberal, but I'm trying to demonstrate a point by arguing the other side of the issue.
Anyone who has to be "born again," clearly didn't get it right the first time. 'Scuse me while I strut . . .
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Anyone who has to be "born again," clearly didn't get it right the first time. 'Scuse me while I strut . . .
You're getting close to biblical doctrine. :Q
I don't think God will hold accountable those people who are physically unable to receive the Gospel.
Gooberlx2
Lifer
- May 4, 2001
- 15,381
- 6
- 91
Yup, had a next door neighbor who was evangelical/born again. First she tried preaching and converting me. Tried steering every casual conversation to Jesus and God. When I got sick of it and gave her a blatant hint that I was not interested in being preached to, she gave up. Afterwards, she became very socially ugly around me. She'd pass by calling me and my friends sinners, and say we had first class tickets to Hell, etc. She'd have her evangelical friends over and say to them, very loudly so I could hear when I was outside and within ear-shot , "that house next door is Satan's hostle" kind of crap.
I mostly ignored it, and she really just ended up being that crazy asocialite who's the butt of everyone's jokes. Whatever.....fvck her.
I mostly ignored it, and she really just ended up being that crazy asocialite who's the butt of everyone's jokes. Whatever.....fvck her.
Ha.
There's a verse in Hebrews I believe that would seem to agree with my claim, though I have not located it yet.
Yeah, some nerve! I can't believe some people have their own opinions that don't always coincide with mine!
Is that your final answer? Why don't you think God will hold them accountable? Seems like the whole point of needing to be born again is because you are safe in the first place as it is.. something about original sin maybe? I guess you can fudge your religion if you want to though...
I have no final answer on this matter. However, our observations of babies would suggest that they are unable to do right or wrong because of the helpless brains and bodies they have. They would also have no conscience that could declare guilt against them; hence, they would not be put under condemnation.
They surround me. This is the Bible belt. I mostly tell them that God is really great, but that I dislike preachers. The last one that worked for me was a Democrat and flavored the truth a little. The one that rents from me won't pay his rent regularly for beans. I think he is a Democrat too. I constantly have the manager on him. For those on the thread that think all Republicans are religious zealots, I differentiate zealots by behavior not professed belief. Civilization requires tolerance as the lubricant that allows it to exist. In almost every church I have entered, tolerance is the first thing out the door. Worship is a great thing and I admire people who do it regularly, but they not allow their belief to swamp their natural inclination to love people just as people. Actually, thinking back, most of the Ministers I have met have been Democrats.
They must get a commission off bibles or something. I've seen them doing that overseas and in airplanes a lot. I can never figure it out. If I need a bible, I just steal it from the hotel.
I had a staffer take me to a Gay Association Christmas Party one year. I was cool with that. Some of the nicest people and all that. I was shaking hands with the elderly guy and she introduced me as we were shaking. He was the president of the association. I told her after to be sure to give me a heads up next time. I was composed, but the surprise may have shown in my eyes. It struck me as damned funny!
Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
my future mother in law is a sweet lady,probably one of the nicest people I know.She's so nice that I don't have the heart to tell her that the bulk of the emails she forwards to me are marked as spam and deleted without even being opened because words like "pray" and "jesus" are in the subject line.
Out of deference to her status as my honey's mother and her age I smile and nod when she discusses church,pray etc.I suspect that I might not get the same reception if I were to be as blunt and open about my set of beliefs.
Out of deference to her status as my honey's mother and her age I smile and nod when she discusses church,pray etc.I suspect that I might not get the same reception if I were to be as blunt and open about my set of beliefs.
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