Discussion How many illegals do you think live in America?

[Mai72]

I'll give you that many work extremely hard but many don't pay taxes other than sales tax on goods they purchase. They receive lot of government assistance. How you think all these babies are born? Emergency Medicaid and other government assistance. They pay bills but that's requirement to live anywhere in the world. Most are law biding but there are decent number of criminals and troublemakers in the mix too.

And @Mai72 is crazy talking about most have 2-4 year degrees. Most haven't even finished grade school let alone any type of college. If they had education, you think they would risk their lives and come here illegally? Most were dirt poor and came here to escape war, poverty, and violent crimes in their country. US is the land of opportunity and one of the few countries where if you work hard and get lucky, you can achieve great success.

I was refering to their children. Many do go on to higher levels of education. Am I wrong?

 

[sandorski]

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking.

Let’s say I break into your house. Let’s say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, ‘No! I like it here. It’s better than my house. I’ve made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I’ve done all the things you don’t like to do. I’m hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).’

According to the protesters:

You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to feed me
You are Required to add me to your family’s insurance plan
You are Required to educate my kids
You are Required to provide other benefits to me & to my family

(my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It’s only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I’m just trying to better myself. I’m a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can communicate with me.

Them being in your Country is not the same as them being in your House.

 

[highland145]

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking.

Let’s say I break into your house. Let’s say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, ‘No! I like it here. It’s better than my house. I’ve made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I’ve done all the things you don’t like to do. I’m hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).’

According to the protesters:

You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to feed me
You are Required to add me to your family’s insurance plan
You are Required to educate my kids
You are Required to provide other benefits to me & to my family

(my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It’s only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I’m just trying to better myself. I’m a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can communicate with me.

Sounds like the new LA DA.

 

[sandorski]

Let me fully and completely understand you. You are saying people that are "living here and contributing in manners for years" can pick and choose any rule or law to follow...in this case..immigration rules and laws. Correct?

To answer your question of "Does it matter to you what Qualities a Person has". As another person posted above. I totally understand why folks breaking the rules/laws to get here/stay here but they can't cut ahead of the line while expect others to stay in the line. Fair is fair for ALL. I agreed somewhat with another poster's suggestion above about paying fines/penalties and come out of the shadow and keep their noses clean and start at the back of the line and work their way up. Not another blanket amnesty.

Incorrect. Your question is nonsensical, I gave an answer merely to get a response.

 

[Svnla]

Incorrect. Your question is nonsensical, I gave an answer merely to get a response.

No problem. Just another troll. I will ignore you in this thread from now on. Next.

 

[Svnla]

I was refering to their children. Many do go on to higher levels of education. Am I wrong?

Last time I check, Hispanic as a group is not doing well in schools and colleges. Whites and Asians are a lot better.

Low Hispanic College Graduation Rates Threaten U.S. Attainment Goals

www.gatesfoundation.org

.

 

[sandorski]

No problem. I will ignore you in this thread from now on. Next.

You do that, avoid the mirror.

 

[ponyo]

I was refering to their children. Many do go on to higher levels of education. Am I wrong?

Some do but way lower percentages than children of legal immigrants. Meanwhile, children of illegals attend free public schools and take advantage of government assistance like free or reduced lunches because of low income. And also have easier time getting in colleges due to lower entrance score requirements.

Meanwhile, any outside foreigner who wants to send their kids to US schools must send their kids to very expensive private schools. So only the very wealthy foreigners send their kids to the US to study grade school.

 

[sandorski]

Interesting Fact: At one time, Migrant Workers crossed the Border freely. They arrived when the Farmers needed them, then after Harvest they went back across the Border. This happened annually with scores of thousands participating. Beginning in the mid '60s Laws were changed that eventually lead to these Workers simply staying inside the US, because they had no other choice.

 

[MrSquished]

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking.

Let’s say I break into your house. Let’s say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, ‘No! I like it here. It’s better than my house. I’ve made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I’ve done all the things you don’t like to do. I’m hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).’

According to the protesters:

You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to feed me
You are Required to add me to your family’s insurance plan
You are Required to educate my kids
You are Required to provide other benefits to me & to my family

(my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It’s only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I’m just trying to better myself. I’m a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can communicate with me.

That's an absolutely terrible analogy. How does this even make sense to you?

Just the fact that people are hiring these folks and giving them incentive to be here, in our house, should be your first clue, besides the fact it is still a terrible analogy EVEN with that fact.

And also, you are acting like illegals are living the big life. And no, illegals do not get all the benefits of citizens. I mean they simply can't get hired at better paying white collar jobs without papers, for example, or good blue collar union jobs, etc... They can't get federal benefits, except medicaid for a birth or life-threatening situation, but zero regular care.

 

[MrSquished]

I guarantee you that if Russia invaded Scandinavia and millions of Scandinavians fled and got here on boats illegally, a lot of these conservatives would change their tune in an instant, or at least turn a blind eye. Not all of them, but a lot.

I wonder why.

 

[highland145]

I guarantee you that if Russia invaded Scandinavia and millions of Scandinavians fled and got here on boats illegally, a lot of these conservatives would change their tune in an instant, or at least turn a blind eye. Not all of them, but a lot.

I wonder why.

Skilled/educated workers maybe?

Oh, my bad, ....Damned racist whities.

😀

 

[ultimatebob]

I'd like to say that this thread is off-topic for this forum... but then we're in the off-topic forum. Nothing is really on topic here.

While we're at it, we should probably talk about video cards and Cyberpunk 2077 as well. Do you think that illegal immigrants have been buying up all the GeForce 3070 cards? If so, damn them all to hell!

 

[highland145]

I'd like to say that this thread is off-topic for this forum... but then we're in the off-topic forum. Nothing is really on topic here.

While we're at it, we should probably talk about video cards and Cyberpunk 2077 as well. Do you think that illegal immigrants have been buying up all the GeForce 3070 cards? If so, damn them all to hell!

The spuge leaked in from p&n. Perfectly legal.

 

[MrSquished]

Skilled/educated workers maybe?

Oh, my bad, ....Damned racist whities.

You don't think construction or cooking, for example, are honorable or needed skills? How do you think that nicely packaged bowl of produce got picked that you have in your fridge or package of meat cuts? Superfluous? Not needed?

Why don't you ask all the contractors and restaurants and farms hiring these people. And the people enjoying the fruits of their labor.

And yes, I've seen plenty of racism in this country against Latinos. Especially when I lived in suburbia. Spics, fucking Mexicans, what have you. Now that I live around a lot of Latinos and in an urban area, not as much.

Wouldn't you be worried about those damn scandinavian socialists bringing their politics here though?

I guarantee you a noticeable portion of the grievances are race based. It's just a fact.

 

[ponyo]

That's an absolutely terrible analogy. How does this even make sense to you?

Just the fact that people are hiring these folks and giving them incentive to be here, in our house, should be your first clue, besides the fact it is still a terrible analogy EVEN with that fact.

And also, you are acting like illegals are living the big life. And no, illegals do not get all the benefits of citizens. I mean they simply can't get hired at better paying white collar jobs without papers, for example, or good blue collar union jobs, etc... They can't get federal benefits, except medicaid for a birth or life-threatening situation, but zero regular care.

The problem with illegals as employer is you can't afford not to use them. Because so many illegals are here and willing to work for so little, if you do not use them but your competition all do, you simply will not be cost competitive on job bids and projects if you only hire and use legal residents. And because the illegals have driven down wages so low on certain jobs, most legal residents are unwilling to do the job for that pay. So your only pool of labor at cost competitive price is illegal labor.

Like I said, I know many illegals work their asses off to live here and to provide better future for themselves and their children. But so do legal immigrants. Legal immigrants work their asses off too. If you want to live and succeed in foreign country, you have to work longer and harder than the natives. If not, you will not succeed because you lack proficiency in language and business connections.

My dad worked 3 jobs for many years to provide for our family. He worked from 6am to 1am working 3 different low paying manual labor jobs. To this day I don't know how he did it. Dude was a machine. How many people would do that? How many of you could do that? He was a legal immigrant. It took us 5 years to come to the US through legal means. And once we got here, my parents worked their asses off and worked jobs no one wanted. In turn, my sister and I worked hard in school and jobs so that their efforts weren't in vain.

 

[MrSquished]

The problem with illegals as employer is you can't afford not to use them. Because so many illegals are here and willing to work for so little, if you do not use them but your competition all do, you simply will not be cost competitive on job bids and projects if you only hire and use legal residents. And because the illegals have driven down wages so low on certain jobs, most legal residents are unwilling to do the job for that pay. So your only pool of labor at cost competitive price is illegal labor.

Like I said, I know many illegals work their asses off to live here and to provide better future for themselves and their children. But so do legal immigrants. Legal immigrants work their asses off too. If you want to live and succeed in foreign country, you have to work longer and harder than the natives. If not, you will not succeed because you lack proficiency in language and business connections.

My dad worked 3 jobs for many years to provide for our family. He worked from 6am to 1am working 3 different low paying manual labor jobs. To this day I don't know how he did it. Dude was a machine. How many people would do that? How many of you could do that? He was a legal immigrant. It took us 5 years to come to the US through legal means. And once we got here, my parents worked their asses off and worked jobs no one wanted. In turn, my sister and I worked hard in school and jobs so that their efforts weren't in vain.

It's a chicken and the egg story. Who started it, the illegal working for less to get by or the employer who thought it was great to be able to avoid rules and regulations and taxes and take advantage of someone with no recourse?

I think we should reform immigration, but deal with those here empathetically. I don't know how a lot of these people work all these jobs now or when your pops came over. It's insane.

My pops came here legally, through Ellis island, from the Mediterranean. He got a little help from some relative that was related to him here, not much but just enough to land, but then he worked multiple jobs at once to make do, lived with his roommates, of which one is still alive, and worked all sorts of jobs in NYC - elevator operator, usher and a bunch more. He then joined the army to take advantage of the GI Bill because he wanted a higher education, and became the company clerk - they ended up giving him a choice to get stationed in Korea or Germany. Korea was hotter so he chose Germany. He came back and went to school. CUNY then NYU for a masters with a business degree - went to work in finance but hated it. He was more of a philosopher type than a chop the world up into profits business guy so he went back to NYU got his PHD in Political Science and became a professor. He taught US Government and the Constitution. Before he graduated my mom came here from the Mediterranean as well, almost an arranged introduction, and they got married. She worked and then went to school, eventually getting a degree in Computer Science and became a programmer. Gave us a middle class life in suburbia and sent us both to college.

Even though he passed, I know he wouldn't want to deport 15 million illegals though. This I know. His politics were progressive. My mom who is still alive feels the same. Both legal immigrants that both busted their asses. I remember my mom waking up and getting us ready while then commuting by bus an hour to the city early morning then getting back in the evening and cooking dinner.

 

[highland145]

You don't think construction or cooking, for example, are honorable or needed skills? How do you think that nicely packaged bowl of produce got picked that you have in your fridge or package of meat cuts? Superfluous? Not needed?

Why don't you ask all the contractors and restaurants and farms hiring these people. And the people enjoying the fruits of their labor.

And yes, I've seen plenty of racism in this country against Latinos. Especially when I lived in suburbia. Spics, fucking Mexicans, what have you. Now that I live around a lot of Latinos and in an urban area, not as much.

Wouldn't you be worried about those damn scandinavian socialists bringing their politics here though?

I guarantee you a noticeable portion of the grievances are race based. It's just a fact.

Lol, you got me there. 😀


I rate qualified skilled labor jerbs over many degrees most days. YMMV

And farmer Joe needs to pay the wage that it costs to hire legal workers. Will our costs go up, yes, but that is our problem.


Like shortdickathon said, I'm in the South, born and raised. I don't see the racism that is supposedly happening but I don't hang with the kkk or antifa.



Wonder if there has been a study on college debt separating degrees where the grad can support themselves vs not?

 

[highland145]

The problem with illegals as employer is you can't afford not to use them. Because so many illegals are here and willing to work for so little, if you do not use them but your competition all do, you simply will not be cost competitive on job bids and projects if you only hire and use legal residents. And because the illegals have driven down wages so low on certain jobs, most legal residents are unwilling to do the job for that pay. So your only pool of labor at cost competitive price is illegal labor.

Like I said, I know many illegals work their asses off to live here and to provide better future for themselves and their children. But so do legal immigrants. Legal immigrants work their asses off too. If you want to live and succeed in foreign country, you have to work longer and harder than the natives. If not, you will not succeed because you lack proficiency in language and business connections.

My dad worked 3 jobs for many years to provide for our family. He worked from 6am to 1am working 3 different low paying manual labor jobs. To this day I don't know how he did it. Dude was a machine. How many people would do that? How many of you could do that? He was a legal immigrant. It took us 5 years to come to the US through legal means. And once we got here, my parents worked their asses off and worked jobs no one wanted. In turn, my sister and I worked hard in school and jobs so that their efforts weren't in vain.

And why the poor and advocates for the poor should fight against illegals. Some CNA, wiping ass, gets let go because an illegal will do the job for $6.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Who gives a shit about illegals. They aren't hurting your existence. Only difference between them and you is a piece of paper. Only reason they are illegal is way tighter immigration policy, which if we had 100 years ago many of you dipshits wouldn't even be here. On second thought maybe we'd have been better off.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Who gives a shit about illegals. They aren't hurting your existence. Only difference between them and you is a piece of paper. Only reason they are illegal is way tighter immigration policy, which if we had 100 years ago many of you dipshits wouldn't even be here. On second thought maybe we'd have been better off.

Yeah, it's only tax dollars, future of the country, population, wage determination, skilless labor overflow, illegal hiring of companies that should be prosecuted, no bigges or anything. Nothing we should at all be concerned with.

Can you tell me where the designated spot is that we are supposed to stick our head in the sand and act as if a problem doesn't exist?


I mean, it's not like even with our extensive list of applicants that we are still the #1 importer of immigrants in the world. No, couldn't be. Remind me, where is that hole so I can stick my head in it next to you and live in blissful ignorance?

Also, that link shows that we import too many from LATAM and says we need to be more diverse like Denmark, Sweden, etc... and allow more immigrants from non-brown countries. So... enjoy that little tid-bit.

 

[brianmanahan]

i look forward to the post-scarcity future where then-pointless country boundaries do not exist

 

[MrSquished]

Also, that link shows that we import too many from LATAM and says we need to be more diverse like Denmark, Sweden, etc... and allow more immigrants from non-brown countries. So... enjoy that little tid-bit.

Gotta get those Caucasian Europeans here right? Maybe progress the country forward and make it more desirable to those from first world Western countries. A lot of Western Europeans enjoy their social services and better work-life balance than we have here. The rise of Trumpism courtesy of the Republican party dumbing down their base has only made America much less attractive to many of those white folks. Immigration to America is mostly from less well off nations than Western European ones for reasons, and that is one.

 

[brianmanahan]

Gotta get those Caucasian Europeans here right? Maybe progress the country forward and make it more desirable to those from first world Western countries.

yeah if i was from denmark or sweden, i don't think i'd be looking to move

my buddy from college moved to sweden for a research job and loves it. after 10 years, has no plans to move back

 

[Avalon]

69.