Italy is #69 in number of cases per million.
We are #12. As I told you, we are ahead of the curve.
A ridiculous assertion, as each country is handling this their own way. If you dig thru the data, some countries had a reprieve, others didn't. Italy got wrecked end of winter / spring '20. And their full lockdown successfully gave them a break.
Deaths per million is a function of BOTH spread of infection AND of failures to manage COVID cases.
Deaths due to spread of infection are not a failure. That aspect is rather inevitable. Most other nations will catch up to us in that way over the next couple of years.
I personally haven't said that there should be ZERO deaths or we failed. That's a ridiculous assertion. What happens with other nations over the next coupe years is up to them and a viable vaccine. I'm not sure how you can make that statement with other critical variables in play.
Deaths per million are not comparable until the spread of infection equalizes. Until the globe has actually finished going through this. Only when the "dust settles" will we know how badly we handled COVID compared to other nations. I added that medical care / hospital failure is a sign of failure.
We don't need to wait to review our country objectively. Our opinion can be swayed with more data down the road, but that doesn't mean we can't look at the current data and state our opinion, measured against other first world nations.
You are adding the "full on" concept to this discussion. That is not some requirement I have applied or even mentioned. New York was close to breaking, but it did not break. I do fear we will have hospitals fail in the Mid West rather soon. But such things have not yet occurred.
Oh, by all means, define what you mean by collapse then. NYC was posting 500+ deaths during April.
New York state reached a tragic milestone this week: It now has more Covid-19 patients than any country in the world, aside from the United States.
www.cnn.com
More concerning is the elevated mortality rate in New York City. As has been well documented, some of this is due to the tragic overwhelming of the city's hospitals. We will never know just how many people died due to the country's inept preparation for the pandemic, but the impact surely was, and still is, substantial.
I mean, if you think NYC hospitals weren't overwhelmed, you have nobody but yourself to blame for it. The information was available for the last 6 months.
As far as the midwest goes, *shrug*, hope the covid parties were worth it. But still, by your own measurement, it's not a failure.
If and when it does occur - is Trump solely responsible? Do the Governors, Mayors, Police, and local people not also bear some responsibly for their own actions? Isn't America's FYGM culture of freedumb responsible? We view social responsibly VERY differently than Asia, for example. South Korea is doing rather well. But like Europe our people, our economies, our jobs cannot be locked down forever. Heck, America's economic system (or lackthereof) is responsible for our pressing need, fear, and desire to return to normal. To get back to work and keep the roofs over our heads. Americans must juggle between social distancing and having money to buy food.
Trump certainly carries responsibility as the elected leader of the country, given the task of leading and protecting Americans, not just 'Muricans. And yes, his enablers, other irresponsible politicians and leaders, and citizens carry responsibility.
If we do prove a failure at the end of this trial, we have many a soul searching question to ask ourselves. And I would squarely point the finger at lack of Basic Income. Lack of secured housing. The fact that we evict ANYONE is disgusting. Yet we do it by the millions during this crisis. There is so much blame to go around - and a LOT of it is ideological. Ours is an economic system that kills people.
I think we've already determined we won't be a failure. If you think differently, then provide the measurement you'll use to consider it a failure.