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How many Americans deaths will Trump be directly responsible for due to COVID-45

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How many American will die due COVID-19 due to Trumps incompetence/indiference?

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  • 1,000

  • 10,000

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,327
2,851
126
The virus will not go away and will likely circulate throughout the country and world population for decades - that's how stupid this idea is.
If it is as unstoppable as that. And I do believe what you've said there....
Then what are the alternative plans of action?
How does one stop the inevitable, especially in a country that cannot handle an economic shutdown?

One cannot be responsible for deaths that were destined to occur regardless.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,977
2,509
126
If it is as unstoppable as that. And I do believe what you've said there....
Then what are the alternative plans of action?
How does one stop the inevitable, especially in a country that cannot handle an economic shutdown?

One cannot be responsible for deaths that were destined to occur regardless.
I wonder, how is nearly every other country on the planet managing it. Just more of that American Exceptionalism I keep hearing about!

If leadership had taking this seriously from the start, given a united front on wearing masks and social distancing, used every opportunity to remind people the importance of doing the little things that can limit transmission, took action on getting tested and talked about the importance of isolating when being exposed, then we would be in a good position to ride this out. The economic shutdowns are mostly due to our leaders not being able to do any of that.
 
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Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,408
2,590
136
If it is as unstoppable as that. And I do believe what you've said there....
Then what are the alternative plans of action?
How does one stop the inevitable, especially in a country that cannot handle an economic shutdown?

One cannot be responsible for deaths that were destined to occur regardless.
Only if we follow the advice of those nutjobs seeking herd immunity by traditional natural means.
The alternative, of course, it to continue with mask use, social distancing and the pursuit of vaccines and therapeutics. You know, the stuff people specializing in infectious diseases say we should do.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
3,929
1,940
136
If it is as unstoppable as that. And I do believe what you've said there....
Then what are the alternative plans of action?
How does one stop the inevitable, especially in a country that cannot handle an economic shutdown?

One cannot be responsible for deaths that were destined to occur regardless.
Oh, you mean like NZ and many other countries have done?

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to why the US which has only about 4% of the total population accounts for 20% of the total deaths or 18%+ of total cases.

I know I'm assuming you have the mental capacity to understand that a country with 4% of the total population should not account for 20% of the deaths worldwide, please don't prove me wrong.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
81,257
7,588
126
Oh, you mean like NZ and many other countries have done?

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to why the US which has only about 4% of the total population accounts for 20% of the total deaths or 18%+ of total cases.

I know I'm assuming you have the mental capacity to understand that a country with 4% of the total population should not account for 20% of the deaths worldwide, please don't prove me wrong.
America #1!
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
21,008
2,789
136
Oh, you mean like NZ and many other countries have done?

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to why the US which has only about 4% of the total population accounts for 20% of the total deaths or 18%+ of total cases.

I know I'm assuming you have the mental capacity to understand that a country with 4% of the total population should not account for 20% of the deaths worldwide, please don't prove me wrong.
Yeah, when you present these assholes with facts, they go silent.
New Zealand was just remarkable and being an island nation with 5M people helped. But the job they did
was incredible.

South Korea- 1/6 the population of US and 441 deaths
They have had only 25K total cases. Period. We do that in 12 hours.

Hell, lets go to Europe and pick Germany- 1/4 the US population and 9,836 deaths.
We would have had <40K deaths based on our size vs Germany. That's 180K needless deaths.
Our nation sucked and continues to suck at the COVID19 response.
We are just inept.

Look at China still. They had a small outbreak and they were going to test
all 9M citizens in 5 days.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
3,929
1,940
136
South Korea- 1/6 the population of US and 441 deaths
They have had only 25K total cases. Period. We do that in 12 hours.
As COVID is transmitted from person to person population density also factors into how likely it is to spread.

For our short trump bus readers, population density means the average number of people that live in a specified area.*

In the US there are about 90 people living in a square mile of land. In South Korea, there are about 1300 people living in a single square mile of land, or 15 times more densely packed.

And the states with the lowest population density have some of the highest number of cases per 1M people, so you can't blame it on the high density big cities. States like SD, 46th in pop density, #4 in cases per 1M, or ND, 47th in pop density, but #1 in cases per 1M, or LA - 23rd pop density but #2 in cases per capita**

* I hate to have to spell these nuggets of basic knowledge out for trumpanzees, but I have learned that their ignorance and lack of rational thought make it necessary.
** Another term I feel might be over trumpanzees head, so here is a link so you can enlighten yourself ----> per capita
 
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alexruiz

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2001
2,669
275
126
Yeah, when you present these assholes with facts, they go silent.
New Zealand was just remarkable and being an island nation with 5M people helped. But the job they did
was incredible.

South Korea- 1/6 the population of US and 441 deaths
They have had only 25K total cases. Period. We do that in 12 hours.

Hell, lets go to Europe and pick Germany- 1/4 the US population and 9,836 deaths.
We would have had <40K deaths based on our size vs Germany. That's 180K needless deaths.
Our nation sucked and continues to suck at the COVID19 response.
We are just inept.

Look at China still. They had a small outbreak and they were going to test
all 9M citizens in 5 days.
Even worse, the population density in South Korea and Germany is much higher, hence, the numbers in the US should be even lower than 40k deaths :(
Edit. MtnMan beat me to it!
 
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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
8,937
345
126
Today’s new positive cases numbers are the highest since the July peak and the fall 2nd wave is just getting started.
 

zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,197
1,295
106
I wish everyone would get on board with wearing a mask. It shouldn't be that tall of an order and to quote trump, what do you have to lose...

In all honesty I had never worn a mask in public before. It was a bit odd at first but that passed quickly. It really seems like our best route to opening up as much as possible, while keeping hospitals form being overwhelmed.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,327
2,851
126

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,439
9,383
136
Delayed at great cost but not prevented. Europe is buying time more than lives. Compared to the US (thus far).
London and Paris bring in strict new rules as cases surge across Europe

If the US actually has a surge so bad that hospital care collapses... then we can truly say the US failed. But that has not yet occurred.
So, by your measurement, the only way we can say we failed is every single hospital fails nationwide, simultaneously?

And by what measurement do we consider a hospital failing? Not enough beds? Not enough staff? Not enough equipment?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,327
2,851
126
So, by your measurement, the only way we can say we failed is every single hospital fails nationwide, simultaneously?
The collapse of our medical system is how we'd actually achieve more deaths than other nations. Otherwise we simply remain ahead of the curve on infection rate. Absent that sort of collapse - they will simply catch up to us when the dust settles.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,439
9,383
136
The collapse of our medical system is how we'd actually achieve more deaths than other nations. Otherwise we simply remain ahead of the curve on infection rate. Absent that sort of collapse - they will simply catch up to us when the dust settles.
That's not what I asked.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,327
2,851
126
That's not what I asked.
I was simply explaining myself. If you do not understand that, I'll give it another go.

We have only failed if we incur more deaths.
But we are ahead of the curve on rate of infection.
When other nations reach our rate of infection they will likely have similar deaths per capita. UNLESS we have failed / somehow caused more deaths.
The collapse of our medical system would be a very clear and up front indicator of our failure, if and when it occurs.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,439
9,383
136
I was simply explaining myself. If you do not understand that, I'll give it another go.

We have only failed if we incur more deaths.
But we are ahead of the curve on rate of infection.
When other nations reach our rate of infection they will likely have similar deaths per capita. UNLESS we have failed / somehow caused more deaths.
The collapse of our medical system would be a very clear and up front indicator of our failure, if and when it occurs.

I'll give you a chance to review the link. First, sort by total cases per 1m population, then sort on total deaths per 1m population. Were even losing to italy, which did have a "collapse" of their medical system.

The weird part here is that you won't have a full on collapse of our medical system because we're a spread out country. You *may* have some specific examples of one are at a time being overwhelmed. So by your measurement, we'll basically never fail.

Edit: the goal is to keep in controlled until the vaccine, but freedumb lovers have made that even more challenging, in spite of covid-19 being very challenging already.
 

LurchFrinky

Senior member
Nov 12, 2003
285
48
91
I was simply explaining myself. If you do not understand that, I'll give it another go.

We have only failed if we incur more deaths.
But we are ahead of the curve on rate of infection.
When other nations reach our rate of infection they will likely have similar deaths per capita. UNLESS we have failed / somehow caused more deaths.
The collapse of our medical system would be a very clear and up front indicator of our failure, if and when it occurs.
Have you already forgotten all of the discussions revolving around "flattening the curve?"
The point is to slow/delay the rates of infection until vaccines and therapeutics improve. These 'other nations' will likely never reach our rate of infection. Won't that make your argument kinda dumb?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
18,876
9,489
136
The collapse of our medical system is how we'd actually achieve more deaths than other nations. Otherwise we simply remain ahead of the curve on infection rate. Absent that sort of collapse - they will simply catch up to us when the dust settles.
Quoted for posterity.
 
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zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,197
1,295
106

I'll give you a chance to review the link. First, sort by total cases per 1m population, then sort on total deaths per 1m population. Were even losing to italy, which did have a "collapse" of their medical system.

The weird part here is that you won't have a full on collapse of our medical system because we're a spread out country. You *may* have some specific examples of one are at a time being overwhelmed. So by your measurement, we'll basically never fail.

Edit: the goal is to keep in controlled until the vaccine, but freedumb lovers have made that even more challenging, in spite of covid-19 being very challenging already.
The ignorant freedumb lovers have been weaponized from the top.

A consistent scientific message form the executive branch sure would be nice. trump had the power to broadcast facts to all of America regularly. Can you imagine if instead of trying to get votes he simply fed us the most updated intimation on how to help fight covid? He cold do that once every two weeks and then end with please don't forget to do your part and wear a mask.
 

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