How long can the body/mind handle 80 hour work weeks?

[Vdubchaos]

Most people would call it an investment.

You put in the time now to get promoted at a much quicker rate than that slob Bob that leaves right at 4:55. He has been working here for 8 years and hasn't seen anything outside of the typical 2% yearly raise which doesn't even keep up with yearly inflation. It's no different than putting in investment dollars early. Those increases will compound into your later years so you don't have to worry about those in your later life.

Yes, and if Bob is not wasting his money on BS, he is way better off.

Bob still has no head aches, lives a happy life and has a nice balance of life/work.

meanwhile, you work your 60-70 hour days.....have more money, which I'm not exactly sure what you are going to do with, as you have no time to even spend it. And if you do have time, then you probably get no sleep (which is not exactly healthy).

And you are dealing with 10x more the BS and Aholes and have 100x more responsibility/anxiety/headaches.



It's all about perspective.

If you work 12 hour days, you have NO TIME FOR LIFE. Simple as that. That is NOT a healthy balance and your health is PRICELESS.

your TIME and what you do in life is also priceless.

You do realize when you do things like have 2-4 kids later in life, you're expected to pay for your kids $50k tuition in life, right? Unless they don't go to school until 26 or whatever it is where they are finally deemed "independent".

Few things here. No One is expecting you to do ANYTHING but our society and America. Higher education is not for EVERYONE.

As a parent, my goal is to raise them proper and prepare them for adult life. It's their responsibility to pay for their own education if that's what they choose to do. If I can help, I will do my best. But with the current cost of college.......I doubt it.

That's under assumption that they will choose to do so (I'm pointing them that way of course) but it's their choice. Many professions don't require college, it's not for EVERYONE.

I never went to college and have had 3 careers and made a pretty good living.

I'm not saying they shouldn't go, if they want to and want to do something that requires it, they should (and in general they should).

But you are out of your mind if you think I'm expected to pay for it.

They will have to work hard for their own education/life.

I also don't believe that ANYONE (good or even great people) can ever appreciate things that are handed/given to them. I've seen way too many kids that had their college given to them and wasted it/down the toilet.

If you believe that is your goal when you have a child, to pay for their college......you do that and good luck.

 

[purbeast0]

/Facepalm. Turnover is from a HUGE mix of competition and people moving to industry. There is VAST competition between the Big 4 to grab the other big 4 workers. I've seen plenty of people that have worked for ALL 4 of the Big 4. I'm on my 2nd already.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Someone else with Big 4 experience already posted telling you that you are wrong. Just...stop...

wtf does the reason for turnover even matter? if someone leaves, they leave, and that position (usually) has to be filled by someone else, whether it being from someone already working for the company, or someone from outside the company.

you are making no sense. all i was saying was that people aren't going to be promoted/move unless there is an open position for them, and there aren't going to be as many upper/top positions are there are grunts working the crappy hours.

are you seriously trying to argue that i'm wrong about that or just being butthurt about having to be part of it? if so, i would just like to hear your side of it then, instead of you getting so butthurt about everything.

 

[xeemzor]

/Facepalm. Turnover is from a HUGE mix of competition and people moving to industry. There is VAST competition between the Big 4 to grab the other big 4 workers. I've seen plenty of people that have worked for ALL 4 of the Big 4. I'm on my 2nd already.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Someone else with Big 4 experience already posted telling you that you are wrong. Just...stop...

Three people did including myself In two threads no less.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

But would you take an 80 hr/week job for a year or two if you knew that it would set you up for life? At what point should people "pay their dues"?

My strategy has always been that when I get a new position, I'll bust my hump for a year or two to build up a reputation and political capital and then I'll slow down. I know it is cliché, but I am the CEO of Me, Inc. Most CEOs are looking for ways to save costs by cutting corners, etc. My philosophy is similar in that I look for ways to work smarter, not harder. The least amount of work for the most amount of pay is what everyone should look towards.

Even then, there is no way I'd do 80 hours per week consistently unless the payoff was huge and more or less guaranteed. I've seen too many people burned working those hours or going way above and beyond (including me earlier in my career). I'm happy where I'm at. I've been a manager. I've been a worker in the trenches. And now, I'm a consultant. Where the journey takes me next isn't known, but it won't be a place where I have to kill myself to make a living and end up dying from a heart attack while my bank account is overflowing with money.

 

[Vdubchaos]

But would you take an 80 hr/week job for a year or two if you knew that it would set you up for life? At what point should people "pay their dues"?

If you think ANYTHING in life is guaranteed, you are in for a shock.

You think companies "appreciate" hard worker and person that contributes greatly.

What I see is quite opposite. People like you are considered "suckas" and are never promoted or get anywhere.

Mind you, there ARE some companies out there that treat their employees fair and reward them proper. Companies that make you work 50-80 hours a week are usually NOT those companies.

:biggrin:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If you think ANYTHING in life is guaranteed, you are in for a shock.

You think companies "appreciate" hard worker and person that contributes greatly.

What I see is quite opposite. People like you are considered "suckas" and are never promoted or get anywhere.

Mind you, there ARE some companies out there that treat their employees fair and reward them proper. Companies that make you work 50-80 hours a week are usually NOT those companies.

:biggrin:

Nah, Xeemzor is a sharp guy and I have no doubt he'll go far. The key, as always, is networking. Who you know is always far more valuable than what you know. If you have those interpersonal skills and are decent at your job, you'll go far. I've always been an introvert and while I absolutely kick ass at every job I've ever had, I didn't put myself out there enough in terms of networking. Now, at my age, I really don't care if I go any further.

 

[Vdubchaos]

My strategy has always been that when I get a new position, I'll bust my hump for a year or two to build up a reputation and political capital and then I'll slow down. I know it is cliché, but I am the CEO of Me, Inc. Most CEOs are looking for ways to save costs by cutting corners, etc. My philosophy is similar in that I look for ways to work smarter, not harder. The least amount of work for the most amount of pay is what everyone should look towards.

That's because you have experience int he corporate world and it shows in your post.

Rule of thumb, never EVER do too much and never EVER do too little.

Even then, there is no way I'd do 80 hours per week consistently unless the payoff was huge and more or less guaranteed. I've seen too many people burned working those hours or going way above and beyond (including me earlier in my career). I'm happy where I'm at. I've been a manager. I've been a worker in the trenches. And now, I'm a consultant. Where the journey takes me next isn't known, but it won't be a place where I have to kill myself to make a living and end up dying from a heart attack while my bank account is overflowing with money.

Correct again.

Working hard with promise of reward is the oldest lure in the corporate world.

I'm SURE some advance and move up are rewarded. Most are left behind and used/abused.

#2 happens WAY more often than #1

When companies/individuals/friends/family <insert WHATEVER> is trying to take advantage of your hard work or niceness towards them.......those are some of the worst people/once you have to watch out for THE MOST.

Over the years, I've found that "user" to "appreciate" ratio is far apart (10:1 might be a high estimate)....that it's not even worth talking about.

:biggrin:

 

[Vdubchaos]

Nah, Xeemzor is a sharp guy and I have no doubt he'll go far. The key, as always, is networking. Who you know is always far more valuable than what you know. If you have those interpersonal skills and are decent at your job, you'll go far. I've always been an introvert and while I absolutely kick ass at every job I've ever had, I didn't put myself out there enough in terms of networking. Now, at my age, I really don't care if I go any further.

Not disagreeing with that.

Networking > hard work/intellectual levels etc

 

[yllus]

Most of America works on exempt salary......including me.

The reason why you moved up and got a management job is because the company knows they can work you to death if they need you, not because of your hard work or dedication.

you don't believe me? Tell them you are only working 8 hours a day next time some BS project or business goal comes about.....you will quickly find out reality.

That's certainly one component of it, yes - my employer knows that I'll stay and put in the hours to see something through. I've been in on director-level and higher discussions on hiring and that has certainly been a discussion point when we're looking at hiring other managers.

Except for the occasional crunch time in the last weeks of a project, my team and I do keep very regular office hours. I've felt for a long time that under long hours, developers start degrading in their work performance pretty quickly - the 45 hour / week mark is where I think things start to drop off. So I have no problem arguing (and winning the argument) that there's not a lot of point in pushing people to put in crazy hours anyways.

 

[Vdubchaos]

That's certainly one component of it, yes - my employer knows that I'll stay and put in the hours to see something through. I've been in on director-level and higher discussions on hiring and that has certainly been a discussion point when we're looking at hiring other managers.

Except for the occasional crunch time in the last weeks of a project, my team and I do keep very regular office hours. I've felt for a long time that under long hours, developers start degrading in their work performance pretty quickly - the 45 hour / week mark is where I think things start to drop off. So I have no problem arguing (and winning the argument) that there's not a lot of point in pushing people to put in crazy hours anyways.

correct

If you found a company that rewards and appreciate it. More power to you.

:thumbsup:

 

[xeemzor]

If you think ANYTHING in life is guaranteed, you are in for a shock.

You think companies "appreciate" hard worker and person that contributes greatly.

What I see is quite opposite. People like you are considered "suckas" and are never promoted or get anywhere.

Mind you, there ARE some companies out there that treat their employees fair and reward them proper. Companies that make you work 50-80 hours a week are usually NOT those companies.

:biggrin:

Just to clarify I didn't mean that you put in dues to build political capital with your company. You put in time to build your knowledge pool and confidence so that they have to pay you more or you can walk to another job and get a huge promotion.

I've consistently taken less money so that I can get the exposure that I want. So far I've had the opportunity to work in many different areas that will be incredibly valuable once I leave. The people I know that made a ton of money/hr in their 30s spent their 20s learning on the job. People who take the money earlier on in their career often impose an artificial salary cap on themselves. The key is to know exactly what experiences you are looking for and have an exit strategy.

 

[skyking]

let's take our hypothetical guys, slob bob and slaving bob.
They both have some kids. Slaving bob does not see as many of the ballgames, plays, activities as the slob man. He is "busy" making this future for the family.
Both bobs have a stroke. This is a hereditary condition and not related to the slaving.
I'd much rather have some memories of good times, and I know the kids would too.
Keep a balance in your life if you can, there are no guarantees about when your number comes up, only that it does come up.

 

[Connoisseur]

A couple of points here aggregated from the many posts that were made:

1) If someone could find a 150k 40/hr a week job that would let me keep the 40 hours into perpetuity and that wouldn't destroy my soul (scratch politics or professional hitman), I'm fairly certain I would murder someone for it (just that one time). Even if I never got a raise again. I don't believe such a job exists. Especially in my specialty.

2) Promotions in the Big 4 does not operate like other industries where there have to be "open positions" to move up internally. There are so many employees and turnover that the concept of "open positions" isn't really used. There's always an open position. The one caveat to this rule is that, if you're in a specialty group (i.e. not tax or audit), your group has to be healthy and expanding in general.

3) 150k or 200k or whatever-six-figure-salary-comes-to-your-head is still that much money whether you work 40 hours a week or 80 hours a week. You can do all the breakdown you want as far as opportunity cost, happiness cost or whatever but really the only real equation most people look at is Income - Expenses = Profit. If my income is higher, I can have more expenses (i.e. bigger house, more toys, supporting children) and still maintain a semblance of savings.

4) The next argument here is going to be inevitably cost of living. Yes I live in probably the most goddamn-expensive city in the world. Yes I need to earn more money to live there with a comparable quality of life to someone who makes a fraction of my income in middle America. Well, not sure what to say here. Not everyone has the luxury of living in affordable areas. ALL of my family and friends are in NY/NJ. All of my wife's friends are in NY. It's a lot more difficult for us to uproot and just move to another state with no relationships.

With all this said, I am totally on board with the whole work-life balance deal and am sick of the crazy work hours. I came into consulting with the mindset of a shark but am quickly realizing that I'm totally happy being a minnow (although a well compensated, ranked minnow. Like maybe leader of the school of fish or something). The people who are sharks are quickly moving ahead and I'm okay with that.

/r

 

[purbeast0]

A couple of points here aggregated from the many posts that were made:

1) If someone could find a 150k 40/hr a week job that would let me keep the 40 hours into perpetuity and that wouldn't destroy my soul (scratch politics or professional hitman), I'm fairly certain I would murder someone for it (just that one time). Even if I never got a raise again. I don't believe such a job exists. Especially in my specialty.

2) Promotions in the Big 4 does not operate like other industries where there have to be "open positions" to move up internally. There are so many employees and turnover that the concept of "open positions" isn't really used. There's always an open position. The one caveat to this rule is that, if you're in a specialty group (i.e. not tax or audit), your group has to be healthy and expanding in general.

3) 150k or 200k or whatever-six-figure-salary-comes-to-your-head is still that much money whether you work 40 hours a week or 80 hours a week. You can do all the breakdown you want as far as opportunity cost, happiness cost or whatever but really the only real equation most people look at is Income - Expenses = Profit. If my income is higher, I can have more expenses (i.e. bigger house, more toys, supporting children) and still maintain a semblance of savings.

4) The next argument here is going to be inevitably cost of living. Yes I live in probably the most goddamn-expensive city in the world. Yes I need to earn more money to live there with a comparable quality of life to someone who makes a fraction of my income in middle America. Well, not sure what to say here. Not everyone has the luxury of living in affordable areas. ALL of my family and friends are in NY/NJ. All of my wife's friends are in NY. It's a lot more difficult for us to uproot and just move to another state with no relationships.

With all this said, I am totally on board with the whole work-life balance deal and am sick of the crazy work hours. I came into consulting with the mindset of a shark but am quickly realizing that I'm totally happy being a minnow (although a well compensated, ranked minnow. Like maybe leader of the school of fish or something). The people who are sharks are quickly moving ahead and I'm okay with that.

/r

they exist, and you don't even have to work 40hr/week. not sure about in your field though. in mine (software dev) they sure as shit do though.

 

[BurnItDwn]

my father has done 70 hour weeks for the past 30+ years. Hes 62, he looks like hes 100.

 

[Vdubchaos]

let's take our hypothetical guys, slob bob and slaving bob.
They both have some kids. Slaving bob does not see as many of the ballgames, plays, activities as the slob man. He is "busy" making this future for the family.
Both bobs have a stroke. This is a hereditary condition and not related to the slaving.
I'd much rather have some memories of good times, and I know the kids would too.
Keep a balance in your life if you can, there are no guarantees about when your number comes up, only that it does come up.

Good times = ball games, plays and activities a the slob man

That's life man! You are living a dream!

 

[CZroe]

I did it a bit longer than a year.

 

[ultimatebob]

let's take our hypothetical guys, slob bob and slaving bob.
They both have some kids. Slaving bob does not see as many of the ballgames, plays, activities as the slob man. He is "busy" making this future for the family.
Both bobs have a stroke. This is a hereditary condition and not related to the slaving.
I'd much rather have some memories of good times, and I know the kids would too.
Keep a balance in your life if you can, there are no guarantees about when your number comes up, only that it does come up.

Slob Bob and Slaving Bob... do they have ATOT accounts too?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

"Hi, I'm Rob Lowe, and I work 40 hours per week."

"And I'm Slave Rob Lowe, and I work 80 hours per week."

 

[CZroe]

I did it a bit longer than a year.

I almost forgot: I did it for a year about 10 years earlier too

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

my father has done 70 hour weeks for the past 30+ years. Hes 62, he looks like hes 100.

That's really sad. Without a retirement plan for work firmly in place, he'll most likely die within months of retiring.

 

[Ns1]

LOL

caps

"Hi, I'm Rob Lowe, and I work 40 hours per week."

"And I'm Slave Rob Lowe, and I work 80 hours per week."

 

[zCypher]

lmao! you win the thread.

"Hi, I'm Rob Lowe, and I work 40 hours per week."

"And I'm Slave Rob Lowe, and I work 80 hours per week."

 

[Vdubchaos]

I almost forgot: I did it for a year about 10 years earlier too

"obedient worker"

 

[Red Squirrel]

Depends if you actually get paid for those hours, or if it's a non unionized job that's normally suppose to be 8 hour days but they force everyone to work OT without pay. If the pay is good, perhaps I'd do it for a short while to rack in tons of cash but can't imagine doing it long term. I'd probably go crazy mentally. I need time to myself. You need 8 hours of sleep, so literally it would be work sleep work sleep, and that's it. zero time for yourself.

I work a lot of 12 hour shifts, but get lot of time off too out of it. If I work 60 hours one week then I only work 20 the other week, for example. Our scheduled are grouped in 4 week periods totalling to 160 hours. This is awesome because it gives more days off. Whether I work 8 hours or 12 hours, it's still a full work day. May as well work 12 if it means I get more time off.