How long can the body/mind handle 80 hour work weeks?

[GeekDrew]

So you're holding out for that Darwin? I don't think they give them out for slow suicides.

see also:

i made it about 8 months, and realized i was getting to the breaking point when nothing seemed to matter to me anymore

if i got fired? awesome, my life will be better now. if i got in a car crash? sweet, maybe i wouldn't have to work for a few days!

when nothing matters anymore, then nothing matters anymore, at least for me. my heart leaps at the prospect of being fired, because then i'd have free time... but then i realize that i'm entirely mentally wasted and worthless to any organization worth a damn, so won't be able to find a decent job; lather, rinse, repeat.

tl;dr don't fucking push it. overtime isn't worth it.

 

[brianmanahan]

I've been doing it for about five years. It's literally killing me. Doctors have been telling me for the last three years that I need to quit before I have a heart attack. heh.

what type of job do you have?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

As someone who has been probably averaging ~65 hours a week worth of work since January so I can defend my dissertation in May, I can say that my mind cannot handle 80 hours. I'm already exhausted and just ready to turn it all off for a month after I defend and submit my dissertation next month.

My advisor has been a real hard ass, and just overall difficult to work with, but I am going to end up with well above average rate of publications in the years it took me to get my PhD (like ~9 or ~10 in 3.5 years - I really don't know or even care anymore) because I was pushing and even broken beyond my limits, but I cannot do this long term. I've already broken down once and had to leave the university for 6 months (went to work for a government lab where I was just as productive working ~40 hour weeks in a nearly stress free environment) and it recharged my batteries so I could finish up. I was really considering not returning to the university at all, but I saw I had the energy and figured I give it one last hard push. Now it looks like it might pay off. But as soon as I'm done, I'm done. I have no interest in sticking around academia being a part of some ridiculous publications count competition that results in an abuse of graduate students. I've seen how it has affected me first hand, and I will never ever be that type of manager (and no I'm not going to do the complete 180 because I've seen how that can be even worse).

That's best lesson to learn. The frame of thought in academia is that all the false drama and pressure will prepare you for what lies ahead ie. a lifetime of false drama and pressure if you stick with academia.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

The reason I went to academia is because I'm creative, I'm an inventor, and I'm a scientist. And when you're like me, and you get backed into a corner to a point where you feel you can no longer express your ideas, and discuss your results without being completely torn apart because someone just isn't capable of understanding things as quickly in the way you do, and berates you for it, it breaks you. Especially when you're putting all of your heart and physical energy you've got into making quality work. It is false drama in the end. It totally is. It's stupid, absurd, and crazy. Everywhere else I have been and worked, I have received nothing but the best compliments, and best of all, genuine appreciation for just being there. I'm done, and can't wait to leave.

But I will admit that academia has made me a stronger person. Because there's no way I ever put up with this again, ever. And what was one "regular stress" for me feels like nothing now. And once I've got that degree, I won't have anything to lose, and I will not hold back.

 

[Jeeebus]

Much longer than that.

Source: I formerly was an attorney at a big fancy law firm.




Wait, no. I clearly lost my marbles sometime during those years, despite continuing to work and bill huge amounts. So my answer for me is, "I dunno, but less time than it takes to make partner."

(I jumped ship for a more enlightened job while halving my pay and now I'm one of the few happy attorneys that exist.)

I did about 3 months (Thanksgiving through January) doing 105-110 hours/week preparing for a trial in New York. Maybe Delaware. He'll if I remember at this point. Big firm life had its perks, but that was not one of them.

I was completely burned out after that. Body and mind. Can't see how anyone could sustain that for much longer.

 

[lupi]

Did about 4 weeks one year for christmas season as a stock/warehouse help at a store. This was in addition to my current end of high school job. About 40 from regular and 30+ from the new and all I can remember was trying to sleep when not at work (lost additional time due to travel between two sites).

At another time got the privilege to work 8 on 8 off, that will have you loving life in a rather short time.

 

[Connoisseur]

I'm in big 4 consulting so it's a cycle if I'm lucky. 60-80 hour work weeks when projects kick off and then it (wishfully) tails off to around 50 hours when i'm just managing. In between projects it's a party. Lately, it seems that the work keeps piling on without an end in sight. Seriously considering my life choices.

My advice, if a job requires it for a few weeks of the year, it's not a major issue. Don't do it for extended periods of time unless you either:
a) absolutely need to do it to survive or
b) have an absolute passion for the work

I'm seeing how my project and promotion situation are going in the next couple of months.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

The reason I went to academia is because I'm creative, I'm an inventor, and I'm a scientist.

As a PhD holder, I say f*ck academia.
That said, if you can swing a (non-handholding) PhD, especially in a subject which you dislike (EM/quantum), most else in life is a cakewalk

 

[Imp]

Depends on the work and a TON of other factors.

Is your job dead end, or do will this work get you somewhere? Do you believe in your work like it's doing something good? Are the people around you nice?

I never worked 80 hour weeks officially, but I did work a 45 hour a week job with 2.5 to 3 hour daily total commute, did a part-time graduate degree for 2 years, and worked a casual job -- required about 25 hours a week all crammed into weekends or nights a few times a year. Something happened around the 3 year mark... I spent the last few months waking up every morning wishing I was dead before I called it quits and went into something else.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Much longer than that.

Source: I formerly was an attorney at a big fancy law firm.




Wait, no. I clearly lost my marbles sometime during those years, despite continuing to work and bill huge amounts. So my answer for me is, "I dunno, but less time than it takes to make partner."

(I jumped ship for a more enlightened job while halving my pay and now I'm one of the few happy attorneys that exist.)

Please show me the way as I am still living in billable hour hell.

Worst work stretch I ever experienced occurred (oddly) when I was working on a pro bono matter. I signed up to write a memo on the law relevant to the legal issues in question, and ended up second chair on the case and writing a complete federal circuit appeal brief from scratch in 5 day period. I slept 1 hour a day over that period (i.e., I worked 115 out of a possible 120 hours). I was nearly incoherent at the end of it. All because the partner who was supposed to write the brief punted her responsibility at the last minute in favor of billable work.

 

[GeekDrew]

what type of job do you have?

sysadmin, local govt

 

[brianmanahan]

sysadmin, local govt

wow, normally government agencies and offices have better work/life balance for IT jobs. i've considered getting one in the past just because i know some people who have all said they haven't worked an hour over 40 since starting their job 5 or 10 years ago.

they do federal and not state/local though. i had a coworker who worked for the state in columbus for a few years but got sick of it and came back to a private company.

any reason you can't jump ship for somewhere else? i assume that would mess up the retirement/pension plan...

 

[yllus]

I did those hours for five months as the lead developer for a project, committing huge swaths of code myself and also directing the work of 17 other developers.

It was all-consuming but not impossible or deadly - keeping 12 hour workdays during the week allowed me to continue to go to bed on time, and I'd do 10 - 12 hours per each weekend day as well. In the first three months of the project before it really ramped up I had written all of the really complex stuff, so when this crunch time hit and your intellectual abilities degrade a bit it wasn't too big a deal - sheer hours got us through.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Umm, for THOUSANDS of years people worked WAY more than 80 hours a week.

Ever heard of slavery?

I used to know a guy that owned a Chinese food place and he worked 1200 days in a row (12 hours each day) without a holiday/break.

You would be surprise at the capability of a human body.

Mind you, I wouldn't want to do it or recommend it. My life doesn't revolve around work, work is a tool to support myself....that's it.

 

[brianmanahan]

I did those hours for five months as the lead developer for a project, committing huge swaths of code myself and also directing the work of 17 other developers.

It was all-consuming but not impossible or deadly - keeping 12 hour workdays during the week allowed me to continue to go to bed on time, and I'd do 10 - 12 hours per each weekend day as well. In the first three months of the project before it really ramped up I had written all of the really complex stuff, so when this crunch time hit and your intellectual abilities degrade a bit it wasn't too big a deal - sheer hours got us through.

same here, though i only had 5 devs to worry about. most of the work was in separate unrelated pieces of business logic, so i just had everyone else do those while i concentrated on getting the app to orchestrate all the business logic properly.

took about 2.5 months of 70-80 hour weeks but we got it working correctly and performing well... then management said they were postponing the release for a couple months.

i wanted to punch someone, because it turned out the initial deadline and supposed demand from management was artificial and there was no reason we had to work that hard and that fast.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I did those hours for five months as the lead developer for a project, committing huge swaths of code myself and also directing the work of 17 other developers.

It was all-consuming but not impossible or deadly - keeping 12 hour workdays during the week allowed me to continue to go to bed on time, and I'd do 10 - 12 hours per each weekend day as well. In the first three months of the project before it really ramped up I had written all of the really complex stuff, so when this crunch time hit and your intellectual abilities degrade a bit it wasn't too big a deal - sheer hours got us through.

Hope you got paid OT.

Also, was the delivery date pulled out of some higher up's ass for no apparent reasons like one of those car shows on TV?

It seems like with ALL of the projects I work on......that's the case.

 

[Vdubchaos]

same here, though i only had 5 devs to worry about. most of the work was in separate unrelated pieces of business logic, so i just had everyone else do those while i concentrated on getting the app to orchestrate all the business logic properly.

took about 2.5 months of 70-80 hour weeks but we got it working correctly and performing well... then management said they were postponing the release for a couple months.

i wanted to punch someone, because it turned out the initial deadline and supposed demand from management was artificial and there was no reason we had to work that hard and that fast.

If I can get a dollar for every time above happens on my projects, I would be rich.

Remember folks, due dates is bunch of made up BS. Usually by CEO or client. And 90% of the time the date is NOT based on amount of work that has to be done, it's just some random number pulled from someone's butt.

I don't take them seriously at all.

Most of the time, these people want to "build a luxury house" and they give you timelines to build a f'in "trailer".

I just laugh at those people.

Me and my team do what we do. Dealing with unreasonable and inconsiderate people FORCES us to do be inconsiderate of their dates.



Back when we did take them seriously or cared, results were not any different. Not caring changed NOTHING.

 

[yllus]

Hope you got paid OT.

Also, was the delivery date pulled out of some higher up's ass for no apparent reasons like one of those car shows on TV?

It seems like with ALL of the projects I work on......that's the case.

Full-time software developers are in the salary-exempt class here in Canada, sadly. But I did get a promotion a few months afterwards into management so it worked out okay for me.

The date was arbitrary but that isn't a big deal to me. The world doesn't revolve around software development; it revolves around business goals, even if that goal is "make sure you launch in Q2". I just make sure what can be launched in that time frame is safely possible.

 

[yllus]

same here, though i only had 5 devs to worry about. most of the work was in separate unrelated pieces of business logic, so i just had everyone else do those while i concentrated on getting the app to orchestrate all the business logic properly.

took about 2.5 months of 70-80 hour weeks but we got it working correctly and performing well... then management said they were postponing the release for a couple months.

i wanted to punch someone, because it turned out the initial deadline and supposed demand from management was artificial and there was no reason we had to work that hard and that fast.

I've always loved writing the central API / code like that - making lots of things work together in harmony is thrilling.

 

[ultimatebob]

I did it for about six months. The money was good, but the stress wasn't worth it.

Looking back, I should have saved more of that money. I probably would be 2 years closer to retirement if I didn't blow it on a new car and furniture.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Full-time software developers are in the salary-exempt class here in Canada, sadly. But I did get a promotion a few months afterwards into management so it worked out okay for me.

The date was arbitrary but that isn't a big deal to me. The world doesn't revolve around software development; it revolves around business goals, even if that goal is "make sure you launch in Q2". I just make sure what can be launched in that time frame is safely possible.

Most of America works on exempt salary......including me.

The reason why you moved up and got a management job is because the company knows they can work you to death if they need you, not because of your hard work or dedication.

you don't believe me? Tell them you are only working 8 hours a day next time some BS project or business goal comes about.....you will quickly find out reality.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I'm in big 4 consulting so it's a cycle if I'm lucky. 60-80 hour work weeks when projects kick off and then it (wishfully) tails off to around 50 hours when i'm just managing. In between projects it's a party. Lately, it seems that the work keeps piling on without an end in sight. Seriously considering my life choices.

My advice, if a job requires it for a few weeks of the year, it's not a major issue. Don't do it for extended periods of time unless you either:
a) absolutely need to do it to survive or
b) have an absolute passion for the work

I'm seeing how my project and promotion situation are going in the next couple of months.

Pretty much my exact situation.

60-80 hour weeks aren't unheard of. Average approx 50 hour weeks. It's just very common to use the time at Big 4 to build up credentials and jump ship to industry afterwards for a fat position that is more lax.

It simply boils down to the client though. High positions of the client will be bitching "Where is x at? Can I get y by Friday?" That is why working for clients requires so many hours. When you work in industry and just work for the company that you work for... you don't have that pressure. Will I jump ship? Not sure, depends how quickly they move us up the ladder vs. how easy it is to jump ship for an instant 50% raise.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Pretty much my exact situation.

60-80 hour weeks aren't unheard of. Average approx 50 hour weeks. It's just very common to use the time at Big 4 to build up credentials and jump ship to industry afterwards for a fat position that is more lax.

It simply boils down to the client though. High positions of the client will be bitching "Where is x at? Can I get y by Friday?" That is why working for clients requires so many hours. When you work in industry and just work for the company that you work for... you don't have that pressure. Will I jump ship? Not sure, depends how quickly they move us up the ladder vs. how easy it is to jump ship for an instant 50% raise.

I love people that chase money/success and what companies do with those people.

Slave labor is well alive in the great US of A.

I certainly see it thriving in the most clients of mine, they work their people to death....and some.

I can understand if you can't find another job and you have no choice. But most of you guys are so career driven/high earners and all of that....and a bag of chips, with the dip.

 

[Kaido]

I've been averaging 70 hours a week for about 5 years now. I would like to do 40 hours a week, but that's the job (onsite & contract IT work); at least I love my job, so it's not all bad. Pay is decent & I like what I do, and have some interesting projects to work on, which I think helps keep me from burning out (plus, ADD, gotta keep busy all the time or I go nuts from boredom haha). I think there's a lot of reasons to work a lot of hours:

1. If you need (or want) the money. School is expensive where I live, so more hours = more money = pays for school.

2. If you're a very driven person, ex. an entrepreneur or a ladder-climber.

3. If you're a workaholic (not a good thing haha).

4. If the job requires it (IT, surgeon, etc.)

I don't really feel bad about it in terms of stress levels. I mean, the people at Foxconn making Apple products are working like 100 hours a week for something like $2.50 an hour, and I'm getting paid more than minimum wage to work far less hours than that, so I can't complain too much!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I love people that chase money/success and what companies do with those people.

Slave labor is well alive in the great US of A.

I certainly see it thriving in the most clients of mine, they work their people to death....and some.

I can understand if you can't find another job and you have no choice. But most of you guys are so career driven/high earners and all of that....and a bag of chips, with the dip.

Random question - Can you give me a ballpark figure of your household income?