How long can the body/mind handle 80 hour work weeks?

[Vdubchaos]

Doug was this guy's best friend, but he also knew this guy was full of shit about his workload. The guy did not report to Doug either.

Actually, now that I think about it, almost EVERYONE knew he (the Unix guy) was full of shit including his boss. Someone once told his boss that they asked him to help with something and he said he was "swamped" and "overloaded." His boss just rolled her eyes and said "I'll talk to him."

The only deliverable I actually ever saw from the guy were the weekly KPI reports for his servers, which hung on a wall in the IT department. It took me (supposedly) DAYS to compile this report (5 boxes, remember?) and he would go around and nag others about their reports. He nagged us one time and a coworker said "Scott, you can do our reports if you'd like since you obviously have time on your hands to complain."

The guy had the place figured out. What can I say.

Some will tell you he is smart.

People will ONLY do what they are ENABLED to do. That's why I blame your boss Doug/management. They allow this sort of shit to thrive.

And you already know it happens EVERYWHERE.

We have people at my company that do NOTHING (literally) and work "from home". They make more money than most too.......and everyone knows they do nothing (including management).

Must be nice, one lady makes over 100k......

Financial negligence is just appalling at times.

But I just laugh, life is not fair, it never was and never will be. I worry about myself. If the company/management is stupid enough to do this, that's their problem. They won't even DARE ask me to work extra time.

Mind you, I will put in extra time here and there when it's NEEDED and not "self inflicted pain" or neglegence. Unfortunately I've never been to or seen such company.

So look at the bright side, at least that guy does SOMETHING.

:biggrin:

 

[Exterous]

Interesting. I would have thought more people had worked 80 hours weeks for longer. Maybe posting on an internet forum tends tends to favor those not working 80 hour weeks

Anyway I did it for about 4 years doing 60-65 hours a week at one job and 14-25 at the other and, to be honest, you get used to it. I will say nothing was overly physical. I sat on my ass a lot at the 60 hour a week job and stood pretty much the entire time at the second job so there was a mix at least.

True you don't have a lot of time for friends and family outside of work but I made some great friends at work. This worked out well as we saw eachother more than we saw our SOs. You also don't have a lot of time to spend the money you are making.

It is not something I could have sustained forever without more notable side effects and I am happier to not be working those long hours but doing so formed a great basis for my work ethic and organizational skills. (I breezed easily through my first bonus milestone at my new job working 40 hours a week) It also helped form a very stable financial foundation.

Looking back would I do anything differently? No. Now it likely was much easier because I really liked the people I worked with but it has allowed me to get to a point where I am living a happy and comfortable life

 

[xeemzor]

Interesting. I would have thought more people had worked 80 hours weeks for longer. Maybe posting on an internet forum tends tends to favor those not working 80 hour weeks

Anyway I did it for about 4 years doing 60-65 hours a week at one job and 14-25 at the other and, to be honest, you get used to it. I will say nothing was overly physical. I sat on my ass a lot at the 60 hour a week job and stood pretty much the entire time at the second job so there was a mix at least.

True you don't have a lot of time for friends and family outside of work but I made some great friends at work. This worked out well as we saw eachother more than we saw our SOs. You also don't have a lot of time to spend the money you are making.

It is not something I could have sustained forever without more notable side effects and I am happier to not be working those long hours but doing so formed a great basis for my work ethic and organizational skills. (I breezed easily through my first bonus milestone at my new job working 40 hours a week) It also helped form a very stable financial foundation.

Looking back would I do anything differently? No. Now it likely was much easier because I really liked the people I worked with but it has allowed me to get to a point where I am living a happy and comfortable life

This is exactly where I hope to be in a few years. After working a few years of long weeks with crazy travel I'll be at the point where I can dictate my hours and responsibilities. I would have never had the opportunity that I do now without my willingness to put in the time.

 

[Vdubchaos]

This is exactly where I hope to be in a few years. After working a few years of long weeks with crazy travel I'll be at the point where I can dictate my hours and responsibilities. I would have never had the opportunity that I do now without my willingness to put in the time.

I do that today....without being taken advantage of by some company or putting in long weeks or extra hours for "few years".

 

[Exterous]

I do that today....without being taken advantage of by some company or putting in long weeks or extra hours for "few years".

Depending on your compensation its not 'being taken advantage of'. I was hourly

 

[Vdubchaos]

Depending on your compensation its not 'being taken advantage of'. I was hourly

Many people in this thread are salary.

If you are hourly and get paid OT, I see 0 problems with working however many hours you want.

If you get paid, you are rewarded.

If you don't, well slavery is the word that is used when a person works for NOTHING.

 

[Ns1]

The situation in the OP is 2 jobs, not 1 80 hour job.

 

[Connoisseur]

If you don't, well slavery is the word that is used when a person works for NOTHING.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Kaido]

People will ONLY do what they are ENABLED to do.

It's amazing how many managers do not know that. And I would add, people will only do not only what they are enabled to do, but also what they are motivated to do. They're definitely not going to go the extra mile if you treat them like crap & pay them poorly; they will do exactly the bare minimum required & nothing more.

It's all about the incentives. I had a pretty frank discussion with management at one job during a review session because it was just nuts...it was a dichotomy of "what are you doing to be proactive?" and "we didn't tell you to pursue anything, so why did you offer up these project recommendations?" :biggrin: I do a good job regardless of the job circumstances because that's who I choose to be, but generally, it's very easy to kill the incentives & thus the motivation to do more to help the company succeed.

Incentivize people & they will work to the bone for you happily & willingly. If I remember right, it was the story of Lincoln Arc Welding that went through a rough patch & ending up making everyone more or less a partner, so they were rewarded based on company performance, and nobody ever wanted to leave...super low turnover rate, very successful company, very happy people with their jobs. It's not rocket surgery, it's just not standard practice

 

[Ns1]

It's amazing how many managers do not know that. And I would add, people will only do not only what they are enabled to do, but also what they are motivated to do. They're definitely not going to go the extra mile if you treat them like crap & pay them poorly; they will do exactly the bare minimum required & nothing more.

It's all about the incentives. I had a pretty frank discussion with management at one job during a review session because it was just nuts...it was a dichotomy of "what are you doing to be proactive?" and "we didn't tell you to pursue anything, so why did you offer up these project recommendations?" :biggrin: I do a good job regardless of the job circumstances because that's who I choose to be, but generally, it's very easy to kill the incentives & thus the motivation to do more to help the company succeed.

Incentivize people & they will work to the bone for you happily & willingly. If I remember right, it was the story of Lincoln Arc Welding that went through a rough patch & ending up making everyone more or less a partner, so they were rewarded based on company performance, and nobody ever wanted to leave...super low turnover rate, very successful company, very happy people with their jobs. It's not rocket surgery, it's just not standard practice

related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y64ms-htffE

 

[Baasha]

But would you take an 80 hr/week job for a year or two if you knew that it would set you up for life? At what point should people "pay their dues"?

There is no such thing. The biggest difference in the workforce now compared to the 'good 'ol days' is job security and company loyalty; something that neither the employer nor the employee give two shits about.

If you're working 80 hours a week in a field that doesn't have scope for rapid growth (i.e. VC, PE, IB, Law, or Comp. Sci), you're getting bent over big time. That is, assuming you don't get paid a decent salary.

The first two - four years of any finance job in a respectable firm (like any bulge bracket) is where you average 80 hours a week. Sleeping under the desk on occasion is not out of the question during EoQ.

The other situation is Comp. Sci fools who get worked so hard they literally cry in their first couple of years - I call them e-slaves. My cousin, who is really smart (valedictorian from Princeton) joined a now-big company when it was tiny and was literally clinically depressed for a couple of years. I think the IPO helped in that regard.

Working that hard for extended periods is tremendously harmful to mental health, let alone physical health. Yoga, meditation, and proper diet is key to keeping sane and healthy during that time.

Good luck! Glad I'm done with that 'phase' of my life.

 

[Carson Dyle]

There is no such thing.

Depends on how you interpret "set you up for life".

Very few short-term jobs, no matter how good they pay, will pay enough for someone to live on for a lifetime. But, just like always (and I mean going back hundreds of years) you can sometimes find a very high paying short-term gig that will stake you enough to make investments, start a business, pay for a college education. Any of those could very well set you up for life.

 

[GeekDrew]

If you are hourly and get paid OT, I see 0 problems with working however many hours you want.

If you get paid, you are rewarded.

This is complete bullshit. Reward is determined by each person's mindset, not a supervisor or fiscal officer. And if you're hourly and get paid OT, that shouldn't entitle your employer to push you til you break. Wanting to work overtime is a different beast altogether, because that implies that the act of doing it is directly rewarding (probablyeither because you love your job or you need the money).

 

[Zeze]

This is complete bullshit. Reward is determined by each person's mindset, not a supervisor or fiscal officer. And if you're hourly and get paid OT, that shouldn't entitle your employer to push you til you break. Wanting to work overtime is a different beast altogether, because that implies that the act of doing it is directly rewarding (probablyeither because you love your job or you need the money).

I do agree with this.

But getting paid OT did ease the pain tremendously when the weekly paycheck came out to $5k~.

Damn over 20k per month. That was a pretty penny.

 

[Vdubchaos]

This is complete bullshit. Reward is determined by each person's mindset, not a supervisor or fiscal officer. And if you're hourly and get paid OT, that shouldn't entitle your employer to push you til you break. Wanting to work overtime is a different beast altogether, because that implies that the act of doing it is directly rewarding (probablyeither because you love your job or you need the money).

I still don't recommend working tons of hours even with OT. But look at the bright side, at least you are getting paid....and company doesn't slave you.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Working that hard for extended periods is tremendously harmful to mental health, let alone physical health. Yoga, meditation, and proper diet is key to keeping sane and healthy during that time.

Good luck! Glad I'm done with that 'phase' of my life.

People often don't realize what's at stake, but above is correct....and many don't find out until later on in life.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y64ms-htffE

interesting stuff. The only part that makes me scratch my head is when they say "Pay them enough so they don't have to worry about anything" (or something to that liking) - uhhh yeah, I would LOVE to get paid so I don't have to worry about taking care of my future kids, college payments, retirement savings, etc.. Good luck finding that in any employer that can give you that feeling of never having to worry about money...

 

[Vdubchaos]

interesting stuff. The only part that makes me scratch my head is when they say "Pay them enough so they don't have to worry about anything" (or something to that liking) - uhhh yeah, I would LOVE to get paid so I don't have to worry about taking care of my future kids, college payments, retirement savings, etc.. Good luck finding that in any employer that can give you that feeling of never having to worry about money...

Give me a break. You live in America and are a spoiled brat.

Most people on this planet worry about water, food......REAL ISSUES.

Future of your kids is THEIR business......so are college payments.....

And retirement savings is a BONUS, not a must as your country lead you to believe.

The problem with this country and it's people, is the fact that it's NEVER ENOUGH.....no matter how much you get. You know you will just buy more BS and go back to whining about silly things.....no # will NEVER be enough for you buddy.

Go head......see how well off you really are.....yet you are still complaining and whining about BS.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Give me a break. You live in America and are a spoiled brat.

Most people on this planet worry about water, food......REAL ISSUES.

Future of your kids is THEIR business......so are college payments.....

And retirement savings is a BONUS, not a must as your country lead you to believe.

The problem with this country and it's people, is the fact that it's NEVER ENOUGH.....no matter how much you get.

Go head......see how well off you really are.....yet you are still complaining and whining about BS.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

You DO realize that your children CAN'T get loans if YOU make over a certain amount, right?

There is a reason why (although it's a shit reason) they ask for your parent's tax returns when getting a loan. If you make over a certain amount (and it's pretty fucking low for how expensive tuition + how the average american spends) they will deny your loan and say your parents can pay it for you.

Life isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

 

[Vdubchaos]

related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y64ms-htffE

Great video

 

[Vdubchaos]

You DO realize that your children CAN'T get loans if YOU make over a certain amount, right?

Another incentive not to make too much.



If they can't afford something.......or can't get it.......well, what does that tell you?

They will have to work hard to get there.

NOTHING is free

If I can help, I will but no....college is not MY responsibility. I will do my best assuming they are responsible.

There is a reason why (although it's a shit reason) they ask for your parent's tax returns when getting a loan. If you make over a certain amount (and it's pretty fucking low for how expensive tuition + how the average american spends) they will deny your loan and say your parents can pay it for you.

Life isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

And I also realize college and bank loans is a HUGE business in this country.

College is NOT A MUST. Some people will benefit and some will not, it all depends on what one wants to do.

I never went to college.....I'm on my 3rd white collar career and make more than most college graduates.

Sure, I'm an exception to the rule.

It's REALLY hard to justify this day and age the amount of money/interest these institutions ask......when you consider what they actually teach you. We are talking MORTGAGE types of loans.

All for "networking" and a "BS checkbox" so you can get a job.

 

[xeemzor]

There is no such thing. The biggest difference in the workforce now compared to the 'good 'ol days' is job security and company loyalty; something that neither the employer nor the employee give two shits about.

If you're working 80 hours a week in a field that doesn't have scope for rapid growth (i.e. VC, PE, IB, Law, or Comp. Sci), you're getting bent over big time. That is, assuming you don't get paid a decent salary.

The first two - four years of any finance job in a respectable firm (like any bulge bracket) is where you average 80 hours a week. Sleeping under the desk on occasion is not out of the question during EoQ.

The other situation is Comp. Sci fools who get worked so hard they literally cry in their first couple of years - I call them e-slaves. My cousin, who is really smart (valedictorian from Princeton) joined a now-big company when it was tiny and was literally clinically depressed for a couple of years. I think the IPO helped in that regard.

Working that hard for extended periods is tremendously harmful to mental health, let alone physical health. Yoga, meditation, and proper diet is key to keeping sane and healthy during that time.

Good luck! Glad I'm done with that 'phase' of my life.

To be clear, I'm not talking about building company loyalty. I'm referring to building the skills needed to be competitive in the marketplace.

 

[slag]

You DO realize that your children CAN'T get loans if YOU make over a certain amount, right?

There is a reason why (although it's a shit reason) they ask for your parent's tax returns when getting a loan. If you make over a certain amount (and it's pretty fucking low for how expensive tuition + how the average american spends) they will deny your loan and say your parents can pay it for you.

Life isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

I don't think that's true, or at least it wasn't when I was going to school. They won't get pel grants, but are still eligible for loans. When my child turns 18, they are on their own, just as I was. I will help with some things as I can, but their education and bills are their responsibility.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I don't think that's true, or at least it wasn't when I was going to school. They won't get pel grants, but are still eligible for loans. When my child turns 18, they are on their own, just as I was. I will help with some things as I can, but their education and bills are their responsibility.

As far as federal loans, it's completely true.

As far as any other loans, they aren't getting any of those either without the parent's cosigning. And I'm not about to cosign. I love my future kids, but I'm not going to be held responsible if they get $150k in loans for a liberal arts degree.

They are 100% fucked until the age of 26 when they are considered "independent" for the federal loans.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I don't think that's true, or at least it wasn't when I was going to school. They won't get pel grants, but are still eligible for loans. When my child turns 18, they are on their own, just as I was. I will help with some things as I can, but their education and bills are their responsibility.

Correct

Unfortunately we are minorities on this.