How exactly is apple "overpriced junk?"

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

haha totally agree. was basically saying the same thing in a roundabout way.

 

[Absolute0]

I believe you end up paying 25% more for the Mac product on a component level. Well worth it.

Based on everything I've seen + the numbers being thrown around here, the actual % is far higher... Maybe someone else will take the time to do a comparison!

For me, I do admire the quality of the Macbook Air design, I even thought about buying one, overpriced as they are...
However I am in the research field, for chemistry, and it requires the use of lots of little, independently developed software suites for characterization techniques that are kind of niche... Anyway, most of the software won't run on a Mac. So for me and my peers, all graduate students, buying a Mac is really just putting yourself at a disadvantage.

 

[Red Squirrel]

The problem I have with Apple is that they are WAY too proprietary. I rather a true PC based system that I can install whatever I want on it, change parts around, not require expensive dongles just to connect a standard VGA or USB device etc.

Now some of the OEMs are also bad for making stuff very proprietary, but Mac tops them all. At least the PC OEMs use standard ports for devices. I'm talking more about PCs here, laptops are always really proprietary, it would really be nice if there was standards made for them.

They are also expensive compared to the equivalent system you could build or buy as a standard PC.

One thing macs are good at though is they work pretty well and are rather solid. A typical user does not care about the internals, they just want to plug it in and start using it. So a mac makes sense for non enthusiasts if they're only using it to surf the web or don't need to run any Windows apps.

 

[OverVolt]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/mac-users-are-richer-cool_n_310332.html

I know, it still doesn't correlate with what I see. Think of all the OWS jobless yuppies and their iPhones. I also see some really educated people, older Gen X'ers with large incomes use alot of apple products as they are intended.

I also see alot of broke Gen Y hanging out at starbucks using an iPhone paid for with credit/mommy&daddy.

 

[coloumb]

I wonder if most people have read / listened to "Steve Jobs - Walter Isaacson" book? Very informative as to why Apple products are "they way they are". Sure - they may not pack the same punch as a laptop by other manufacturers - but the apple products are a hell of a lot better designed. [Most] people want a product that looks good - rather than a product that looks like it was designed by a caveman [most business pc's]. Notice a lot of tv shows/ movies use Apple products?

To answer the OP's comments about various laptops:

1. HP - Agree - every single HP laptop I've owned [about 3] falls apart within a year.

2. Sony - Agree - I've found Sony laptops to be a bit pricey compared to other Windows based laptops. There is a SONY store at the local mega-mall - so in house warranty repair wouldn't be an issue if I owned a SONY laptop. I'd put Sony's laptops at/near Apple's in terms of "style".

3. Dell - agree about the keys - very easy to pop off and break. Warranty service so far has been awesome if you have the correct warranty service. Non-Business Gold level Tech support appears to be mostly in India - so it's very painful to deal with them especially when you're a geek as they have to run down a default checklist. Gold level business tech support is US based and very easy to deal with.

4. Lenovo [IBM] - wife has a lenovo supplied from work - looks very solid. I still have an old IBM laptop running Windows 98 which still works to this day.

5. Apple - never owned one, but always stop by the apple store and am very impressed with the build quality, design, functionality, etc of their laptops [and other products]. The price is a huge obstacle for me - if I had the disposable income - I'd definitely buy one and learn how to create apps.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Ok, so I just broke this topic apparently. If you click on page 6 it brings you to page 5. lmao

edit: ok now it works. That was weird.

 

[Aikouka]

Dell used to make a small Mac Mini-like product called the Zino HD. It appears that they've discontinued it though:

http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-zino-hd-410/pd

I considered getting one for awhile, but I believe I never liked the processor options.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Lenovo currently is my favorite laptop manufactuer.

Trackpad is the worst thing imaginable compared to the nub.
Plastic covering metal cage is the best of both worlds. You get toughness of metal, but the energy absorbing qualities of the plastic. If you drop your laptop, unlike a Mac, 100% of the energy isn't transmitted to the components. The plastic shatters/bends and absorbs energy. Who cares if it doesn't look great, its fucking still working.

Also, Lenovo's have the best style and look.

 

[slackerinabox]

The problem I have with Apple is that they are WAY too proprietary. I rather a true PC based system that I can install whatever I want on it, change parts around, not require expensive dongles just to connect a standard VGA or USB device etc.

Now some of the OEMs are also bad for making stuff very proprietary, but Mac tops them all. At least the PC OEMs use standard ports for devices. I'm talking more about PCs here, laptops are always really proprietary, it would really be nice if there was standards made for them.

They are also expensive compared to the equivalent system you could build or buy as a standard PC.

One thing macs are good at though is they work pretty well and are rather solid. A typical user does not care about the internals, they just want to plug it in and start using it. So a mac makes sense for non enthusiasts if they're only using it to surf the web or don't need to run any Windows apps.

I think some of this has changed recently. I upgraded the ram and hard drives on my iMac without issue and adapters from (i think) displayport to HDMI/DVI were something like 6 bucks.. The macbook air isn't upgradable at all though, so I'm glad I opted for the step up model. Some say it's a necessity due to the size while others think it's a stupid design decision - luckily the upgrade cost included a doubling of the ssd size, so I'm ok with the charge.

 

[slackerinabox]

Look at the x220 vs MBP 13 comparison I posted a few pages ago and the op ignored. Granted the x220 was not half the price but it certainty offers more bang for your buck than the MBP.

I didn't ignore it - I love lenovos. I don't really think it's "$500 cheaper" based on msrp or amazon's price ($1099 vs $1199) and boils down to preference.

 

[slackerinabox]

Dell used to make a small Mac Mini-like product called the Zino HD. It appears that they've discontinued it though:

http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-zino-hd-410/pd

I considered getting one for awhile, but I believe I never liked the processor options.

I remember the zinos! They looked great for the outlet price ($299), too bad they're discontinued. I rely on plex and pytivox too much to go windows for htpc use but those were excellent bang for buck systems, and they looked cool too.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I didn't ignore it - I love lenovos. I don't really think it's "$500 cheaper" based on msrp or amazon's price ($1099 vs $1199) and boils down to preference.

I never said it was $500 cheaper, that was another poster.

Actually my x220 was the same price as the base MBP 13 but had much better specs which is why I said it was a better value. The Intel SSD alone put's it in a different league compared to the MBP 13.

 

[nageov3t]

posting this from my macbook.

I can't think of anything here that makes the "apple tax" worth it over a Lenovo.

but I had a huge crush on a mac guy when I bought this.

 

[CraigRT]

T-series for me.. That's all I want. They work good, and have top notch quality and track record.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

My Envy failed and they overnighted a box to me so I could overnight it back and it got fixed in about a day.

Btw, I work with about 400+ Macbooks. They get REALLY hot. Doesnt help that its a unibody design and that the case is basically a giant heatsink.

 

[slackerinabox]

The rules are made up by all these so-called internet pros because everything in their world is either black or white, none of that rational in-betweens.

I will agree Apple does have beautiful industrial design, but I think they take it a tad too far with the "form over function" mantra. When the iPad came out, I thought it was a great tablet, but too pricey for what it was at the time. Now that the 3rd generation is coming out, I finally think that the features is worthy of the price tag, that's why I'm getting one.

As for the person's comment that the only people they know that uses apple products are Barristas and college kids--that's purely anecdotal, and a shitty one at that. There's an industry of artists, photographers, designers, movie makers that use Apple, mainly because they're not very tech savvy and Apple caters to those who are not too entuned with technology.

Sigur ros? HIPSTER! STUPID HIPSTER! Maybe it's having a kid, maybe it's because I'm getting old - for whatever reason I'm growing out of nerd culture because of that black and white mentality... "If you don't embrace my choice then you're wrong! A sheep! A puppet!" What's funny is that so many of these nerd choices are, in actuality, kinda by products of having an excess of free time. I used to show off the romming ability of my droid only to get rightfully mocked - "why do I need to customize my phone?" The only answer I had was that it was fun and made me feel like a hacker or subverting the man in some way by doing something that the carriers didn't want me to do... Reality is, I like my locked down windows phone with it's consistent u.i. and good battery life. Same way I like my macbook air because I don't have to tinker with it and don't shed any tears because I can't. I get maybe 2 hours of free time a day, I don't want to spend it troubleshooting.

I will disagree that apple's ethos is form over function but a nice marriage of the two. I think I'm just growing to appreciate ergonomics, aesthetics, and usability over sheer performance. I threw away my 80 function universal remote with a color lcd in favor of this $20 logitech that fits so wonderfully in my hand and doesn't require a PHD to use - I'm happy, my wife is happy, my guests never bother me because they just pick it up and use the damn remote without my help- this is valuable to me now, but I was one hell of a tinkerer and have the boxes and boxes of cablrd to prove it

 

[slackerinabox]

My Envy failed and they overnighted a box to me so I could overnight it back and it got fixed in about a day.

Btw, I work with about 400+ Macbooks. They get REALLY hot. Doesnt help that its a unibody design and that the case is basically a giant heatsink.

My work 2007 macbook got hot, my macbook air is always cold to the touch. I wonder if it's a core 2 duo vs. i5/i7 thing

 

[alkemyst]

I have a mid 2010 15", only time it's hot is running flash.

My company lets us pick: 15" MBP, T5x0, or the X220

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I wonder if most people have read / listened to "Steve Jobs - Walter Isaacson" book? Very informative as to why Apple products are "they way they are". Sure - they may not pack the same punch as a laptop by other manufacturers - but the apple products are a hell of a lot better designed. [Most] people want a product that looks good - rather than a product that looks like it was designed by a caveman [most business pc's]. Notice a lot of tv shows/ movies use Apple products?

To answer the OP's comments about various laptops:

1. HP - Agree - every single HP laptop I've owned [about 3] falls apart within a year.

2. Sony - Agree - I've found Sony laptops to be a bit pricey compared to other Windows based laptops. There is a SONY store at the local mega-mall - so in house warranty repair wouldn't be an issue if I owned a SONY laptop. I'd put Sony's laptops at/near Apple's in terms of "style".

3. Dell - agree about the keys - very easy to pop off and break. Warranty service so far has been awesome if you have the correct warranty service. Non-Business Gold level Tech support appears to be mostly in India - so it's very painful to deal with them especially when you're a geek as they have to run down a default checklist. Gold level business tech support is US based and very easy to deal with.

4. Lenovo [IBM] - wife has a lenovo supplied from work - looks very solid. I still have an old IBM laptop running Windows 98 which still works to this day.

5. Apple - never owned one, but always stop by the apple store and am very impressed with the build quality, design, functionality, etc of their laptops [and other products]. The price is a huge obstacle for me - if I had the disposable income - I'd definitely buy one and learn how to create apps.

No, they're not.

 

[QueBert]

I know, it still doesn't correlate with what I see. Think of all the OWS jobless yuppies and their iPhones. I also see some really educated people, older Gen X'ers with large incomes use alot of apple products as they are intended.

I also see alot of broke Gen Y hanging out at starbucks using an iPhone paid for with credit/mommy&daddy.

I'm curious, do you walk up and ask them if they're broke? And do you ask "hay did you buy that with your daddy's credit card?" How exactly do you know either?

To me it seems you make a shit ton of assumptions.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I've been in the market for a desktop and a laptop and have vigorously looked for alternatives to buying an apple. Everyone says that macs are pieces of shit that are overpriced and only appeal to hipster, but I did a fair amount of research and came away with a simple conclusion- excellent customer care and build quality costs extra. After touching a "premium" windows laptop (hp envy) and comparing it to my new macbook air, I seriously have to wonder what everyone's smoking.

I don't have a brand preference (until now, actually) and did a thorough comparison (not just of cheapies):
1. HP - Junky trackpads, mediocre keyboards, horrid LCDs unless you upgrade (which ends up costing more than a mac)
2. Sony - very nice once you get higher in budget but you still don't have the ease of walking into an apple store and getting your system repaired
3. Dell - I actually like my vostro but the keys fell off and the lcd mediocre. tech support was awful, awful, awful when I called about the keyboard
4. Lenovo - my pick for great windows laptops. Love my little thinkpad but it does get too hot sometimes
5. Apple - outstanding build quality with a great keyboard, outstanding trackpad, and performance to match the premium look. Also, the peace of mind of apple care is wonderful,.

My point is, for my budget Apple was the best bet. UNLESS YOU'RE A GAMER, why would you call the superior build quality "overpriced junk?" I'm trying to understand the cult of Windows here, we're american after all - don't we embrace excellent workmandship and customer service over the cheapest shit money can buy?

Looking for a mac mini now and sincerely want a cheaper i5 windows alternative but just can't find something that packs the same form factor, specs, and build quality plus the customer service...

I have a budget Toshiba laptop that is both quiet and cool with a decent LCD. It's a great little machine but the plastic case is flimsy and the power connector is on the right side so it interferes with me setting a mouse/mouse pad next to it.

A co-worker of mine has a Macbook and I've played around with it enough to realize that it is a very nice piece of hardware. Well made, light, attractive, well thought out. I'd love to have one but I'm not spending $1300 on a laptop. That's 3 times what I paid for my Toshiba.

I have a bunch of iPods and like the iPad but I'll probably end up getting something like the Samsung Galaxy Tablet if I decide to get a tablet one of these days. They seem to have a good number of apps for the Andriod tablets.

 

[Farmer]

My Envy failed and they overnighted a box to me so I could overnight it back and it got fixed in about a day.

Btw, I work with about 400+ Macbooks. They get REALLY hot. Doesnt help that its a unibody design and that the case is basically a giant heatsink.

That's actually good, it means the heat isn't being trapped at the processor.

 

[blinblue]

I think an important part of comparing Apple computers with other manufacturers is to realize that Apple hardly ever gives any sort of discount. So MSRP of an Apple computer is what just about everyone will pay for it (+/- about 10% I would imagine). Whereas with Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc etc you can find deals all the time for far below MSRP.

For example. I have a Dell XPS 15 (latest model, L502x) that I bought about 8 months ago for $610. Core i5-2410m, GT540M 2GB, 1080p B+RGLED display (not IPS sadly, but it is still quite high quality), 6GB RAM, 500GB hard drive, has USB 3.0.
However if you went to dell's website and configured it right now (slightly newer CPU now and slightly bigger HD) it would cost $1049.99

To compete with price, I would have to get the Macbook 13" for $1200, but that's a major downgrade in screen resolution and graphics card (though of course an upgrade in portability and battery life). If I went with the 15" Macbook I would have to shell out a minimum of $1799 (over 3x the cost of my laptop).
For that extra $1200 I would get an i7 and a somewhat better video card, a good bit smaller and slightly lighter. It comes with 2GB less RAM, and a lower resolution screen (1080p vs 1680x1050)
EDIT: Actually the 1680x1050 screen is $100 more, the default is a 1440x900 one.

There is simply no way for me that those differences are worth $1200. I would pay maybe $300 extra for all that.

I had a similar sort of deal with a Dell XPS 8300 desktop with a Core i7-2600 for $400. The CPU itself still sells for about $300.


If you frequent deal forums like Slickdeals.net you'll see countless of awesome deals for PC desktop and laptops. Once in a blue moon does something better than 10% ever show up for an Apple desktop or laptop

 

[natto fire]

I must be a glutton for punishment, because I skimmed this thread again. It looks like the same song and dance where some people want to talk about the technical aspects of the devices in question, while others prefer to attack the trends/lifestyles of people that tend to own said devices. One presents concrete evidence and personal experience with using the devices and what for. The other is simply sweeping generalization BS.

Granted, this section is not really for tech, but it really makes you look silly to compare electronics based on who tends to buy them. It's not a fucking popularity contest, it's called computing.

There is absolutely no reason to hope a tech company goes out of business at this point IMO, if only until the job market stabilizes a bit more.

And hey, when Intel starts to slowly branch into other areas after they wisely devise a long term exit strategy from x86, remember how good they have been to us in the x86 era. Same for AMD (posted from 1090t w/ 5770).

 

[slackerinabox]

I think an important part of comparing Apple computers with other manufacturers is to realize that Apple hardly ever gives any sort of discount. So MSRP of an Apple computer is what just about everyone will pay for it (+/- about 10% I would imagine). Whereas with Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc etc you can find deals all the time for far below MSRP.

For example. I have a Dell XPS 15 (latest model, L502x) that I bought about 8 months ago for $610. Core i5-2410m, GT540M 2GB, 1080p B+RGLED display (not IPS sadly, but it is still quite high quality), 6GB RAM, 500GB hard drive, has USB 3.0.
However if you went to dell's website and configured it right now (slightly newer CPU now and slightly bigger HD) it would cost $1049.99

To compete with price, I would have to get the Macbook 13" for $1200, but that's a major downgrade in screen resolution and graphics card (though of course an upgrade in portability and battery life). If I went with the 15" Macbook I would have to shell out a minimum of $1799 (over 3x the cost of my laptop).
For that extra $1200 I would get an i7 and a somewhat better video card, a good bit smaller and slightly lighter. It comes with 2GB less RAM, and a lower resolution screen (1080p vs 1680x1050)
EDIT: Actually the 1680x1050 screen is $100 more, the default is a 1440x900 one.

There is simply no way for me that those differences are worth $1200. I would pay maybe $300 extra for all that.

I had a similar sort of deal with a Dell XPS 8300 desktop with a Core i7-2600 for $400. The CPU itself still sells for about $300.


If you frequent deal forums like Slickdeals.net you'll see countless of awesome deals for PC desktop and laptops. Once in a blue moon does something better than 10% ever show up for an Apple desktop or laptop

Apple refurbs are great- like new, full warranty, and sometimes a substantial savings. Also, since OS X runs well on even core duo processors, you don't need to necessarily get into a specs match up to get a similar experience. This doesn't apply if you're a gamer, of course.