How do you acount for the decline over the last 40 years?

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: WTT0001
Its simple, we took God out of everything. This country was based on the Bible, It thrived, now that we have taken God out, look at this country now.

I am gonna get flamed but it is the truth.

Prove it then.

The title asked for an explanation for the decline. WTT0001 provided one.

And your theory is?

The title asked for an explanation and he posted what he claimed was an absolute truth. I just asked him to prove it.

My Theory? Doctor Spock.

If you please, could you explain how Dr. Spock is responsible?

His theory on how to raise children went against the age old idea of disciplining your children when they misbehaved. His idea was to reason with them instead of letting them know that there was an absolute right and wrong, usually by some form of corporal punishment.

Actually I don't know the exact cause of it and I think that the DR.Spock Generation of Children who grew up to be parents themselves is just one aspect of a much more complicated reason for the break down of society..well at least as the experss see it.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: WTT0001
Its simple, we took God out of everything. This country was based on the Bible, It thrived, now that we have taken God out, look at this country now.

I am gonna get flamed but it is the truth.

Ah yes, well there was a time when the church had even more influence than it did 40 years ago. It was called the dark ages, and with good reason. It is not the truth. The country did not thrive based on the bible, we were ruled by fear of God. And you think that's a good thing, but I say better for us to figure it out ourselves, even if it takes a little time.

Edit: Uh, and aren't you saying that it is the fault of non-chrisitans that we have all these "problems"? I mean, after all, we'd all be much better off if everyone was a good little christian, right?

 

[0roo0roo]

we have more freedom. women aren't trod on anymore, and neither are minorities for the most part.


sure you can have more safety, look at singapore, police state, low crime, much wonderful harmony!! but if you want to chew gum, u gonna get your @ss caned🙂

and statistics as always are shady.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: axiom
First of all the main proponent of Humanism is in our public schools and higher learning institutions. Our children are bombarded with lies from kindergarten until they throw their caps in the air to celebrate their Bachelors degree. Not all of our education is lies, but the fact that we even have the gall to teach lies is appalling. Evolution is a belief. Creationism is a belief. Evolution is taught in schools. Creationism is not. How can this be?

Evolution is a currently scientific fact, backed by the fossil record and observed microevolution.

funny how people pushing creationism don't look at the middle east as a wonderful example of a place where evolution cannot even be considered.

 

[Rainsford]

And just so no one accuses me of not having any ideas of my own...

I'd say the fault lies with the parents of today. It is interesting to note that they were raised during a "God fearing" time, yet they have shown themselves to be more greedy, less willing to raise their kids and more self centered than any previous generation. I think that by the time todays teens are the adults, things will get better. Laugh if you will, old people, but you royally screwed it up, soon it will be our turn to try and fix it.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: WTT0001
Its simple, we took God out of everything. This country was based on the Bible, It thrived, now that we have taken God out, look at this country now.

I am gonna get flamed but it is the truth.

Prove it then.

The title asked for an explanation for the decline. WTT0001 provided one.

And your theory is?

The title asked for an explanation and he posted what he claimed was an absolute truth. I just asked him to prove it.

My Theory? Doctor Spock.

If you please, could you explain how Dr. Spock is responsible?

His theory on how to raise children went against the age old idea of disciplining your children when they misbehaved. His idea was to reason with them instead of letting them know that there was an absolute right and wrong, usually by some form of corporal punishment.

Actually I don't know the exact cause of it and I think that the DR.Spock Generation of Children who grew up to be parents themselves is just one aspect of a much more complicated reason for the break down of society..well at least as the experss see it.

So are you suggesting that the societal decline we're experiencing is because we spank our children less than we used to?

I'm intrigued by the notion of an absolute right and wrong. Do you believe in moral absolutes?

I think there's some truth that Spock bears some responsibility. I'm glad I was reared by WWII generation parents.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
And just so no one accuses me of not having any ideas of my own...

I'd say the fault lies with the parents of today. It is interesting to note that they were raised during a "God fearing" time, yet they have shown themselves to be more greedy, less willing to raise their kids and more self centered than any previous generation. I think that by the time todays teens are the adults, things will get better. Laugh if you will, old people, but you royally screwed it up, soon it will be our turn to try and fix it.

Parents of today were raised in the 60s and 70s. New parents were raised in the 80s. Hardly the "god fearing" time of the 50s and before. No, parents of today were raised in the hippy, "if it feels good, do it" time.

Get your time lines right, OK?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

BTW, I haven't been hostile.

RD not hostile??? When??? Where???
Now there's some denial for ya! 😉

Fsck Off you God Damned Bunghole Yodeling Libertarian Rabble Rouser!!!!

Now there's some Hostility for you😉

Bunghole yodeling?

Now THAT sounds interesting. Can you teach me how it's done?

😀

 

[TheGameIs21]

Do you all know whats really funny? Sad actually...

Not once has anyone said that it was because of moving away from Chritianity but everyone is arguing about Christianity as though it was. RELIGION is what people have moved away from. Religion is defined as this at Websters.com:

1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

I 100% agree that the move from Religion is a major part of the problem. Most religions "preach" against the things that would cause the listed "declines" above. If people held to their religious beliefs as they did in the 40's - 60's then the decline would reflect better.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Rainsford
And just so no one accuses me of not having any ideas of my own...

I'd say the fault lies with the parents of today. It is interesting to note that they were raised during a "God fearing" time, yet they have shown themselves to be more greedy, less willing to raise their kids and more self centered than any previous generation. I think that by the time todays teens are the adults, things will get better. Laugh if you will, old people, but you royally screwed it up, soon it will be our turn to try and fix it.

Parents of today were raised in the 60s and 70s. New parents were raised in the 80s. Hardly the "god fearing" time of the 50s and before. No, parents of today were raised in the hippy, "if it feels good, do it" time.

Get your time lines right, OK?

My time lines are correct. I was refuting what WTT0001 said about the decline from the 60's to today. He said that it was because we took God out of our lives (the implication being that God was in our lives during the 60's). Since many parents (and leaders) of today were raised during that time (when WTT0001 says was good because we followed God), I am saying that it is interesting that they certainly don't behave in a very "good" way.

 

[Vic]

Just joining the thread:
- VA loans and housing after WWII, along with Social Security, destroyed the previously strong family cohesion that had existed in America.
- The switch in US politics and government from a republic represented by the rule of law to an out-of-control democracy represented by the rule of the majority or the special interest, with the resulting clamoring and infighting among the various groups that has never stopped to this day.
- Fiat money standard.

 

[0roo0roo]

i blame nixon.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Rainsford
And just so no one accuses me of not having any ideas of my own...

I'd say the fault lies with the parents of today. It is interesting to note that they were raised during a "God fearing" time, yet they have shown themselves to be more greedy, less willing to raise their kids and more self centered than any previous generation. I think that by the time todays teens are the adults, things will get better. Laugh if you will, old people, but you royally screwed it up, soon it will be our turn to try and fix it.

Parents of today were raised in the 60s and 70s. New parents were raised in the 80s. Hardly the "god fearing" time of the 50s and before. No, parents of today were raised in the hippy, "if it feels good, do it" time.

Get your time lines right, OK?

My time lines are correct. I was refuting what WTT0001 said about the decline from the 60's to today. He said that it was because we took God out of our lives (the implication being that God was in our lives during the 60's). Since many parents (and leaders) of today were raised during that time (when WTT0001 says was good because we followed God), I am saying that it is interesting that they certainly don't behave in a very "good" way.

The bulk of the decline from the "60s to today" took place from the late sixties to the early eighties. The young generation of the 60s rebelled against all norms, and threw out the generally accepted moral base and family structure. They, in turn, raised their kids in the eighties with nearly the exact opposite values their parents from the fifties had. It was this generation that created the term "latch key kid." THESE are the parents and leaders of today. A direct product of the social rebellion in the 60s.

Now, don't get me wrong, the sixties social rebellion had some valid points. (racial and sexual equality were very valid points) But a lot of the morality and social norms they threw out was there for a reason. IMHO, they threw the baby out with the bath water, and we are still reaping the consequences today.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

I blame MSG (monosodium glutimate).

 

[Riprorin]

Here are some interesting statistics about religious practice in the US. Clearly, as a nation, we have become less religious.

Estimated Americans Unchurched: 195 million

Communicant membership of Protestant Churches in last 10 years has declined by 9.5%

Church/Population Ratio Declining:

1900 ... 27 churches for every 10,000 Americans

1950 ... 17 churches for every 10,000 Americans

1996 ... 11 churches for every 10,000 Americans

U.S. Loses 72.11 churches per week: 10.27 per Day

U.S. Gains 24.03 churches per week: 3.42 per Day

Net Loss: 48.08 churches per week: 6.85 per Day (4)


Church Attendance In Rapid Decline:

1991 - 49%

1992 - 47%

1993 - 45%

1994 - 45%

1995 - 45%

1996 - 37%


Violence:

The U.S. Leads the World in EVERY Category of Violent and Domestic Crime and Social Decay (5)


Missions:

U.S. Once the Number 1 Sending Nation of Missionaries

U.S. Now the 13th Largest Receptor Nation of Missionaries (5)

We Have Become a Society That 50 Years Ago Every Denomination Would Have Felt Compelled to Missionize (5)


1 January '96, Gallup Princeton Religion Report

2 Charles Arn, Autumn '96, ASCG Journal of Church Growth

3 George Barna, Church In The World Today

4 Charles Arn, Autumn '96, ASCG Journal of Church Growth

5 Tom Clegg, The Need For Church Planting In America, 1996

(Source: National Pastors' Prayer Network, RESOURCES & IDEAS, 001207)

 

[Zebo]

Get em' Riper😉

Without sprituality whatever it might take it form we need a police state because humans have always been immoral, shiftless, self-gratifying, good-for-nothing shits.

 

[0roo0roo]

i blame tax cuts. in the 60's ...your wonderful time of glory taxes on the rich reached 50%. from that time on it has slowly declined to the amount it is today. consolidation of wealth was also lower in the 60's. you might hate hearing about the richest 1% or 10% or whatever, but the fact is that they owned far less of the total pie in the 60's. each decade on they increased their portion til they reached the bloated portion they have today.

 

[Amused]

"The U.S. Leads the World in EVERY Category of Violent and Domestic Crime and Social Decay (5)"

Um, you need to recheck your stats on this. It's BS and has been since the early 90s.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
i blame tax cuts. in the 60's ...your wonderful time of glory taxes on the rich reached 50%. from that time on it has slowly declined to the amount it is today. consolidation of wealth was also lower in the 60's. you might hate hearing about the richest 1% or 10% or whatever, but the fact is that they owned far less of the total pie in the 60's. each decade on they increased their portion til they reached the bloated portion they have today.

Bullsh!t. When the highest tax rates were reduced, tax shelters and exemptions were closed on a massive scale. So in reality, the highest tax brackets are paying MORE now than they did then.

Don't make judgements when you don't have all the information.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: WTT0001
Its simple, we took God out of everything. This country was based on the Bible, It thrived, now that we have taken God out, look at this country now.

I am gonna get flamed but it is the truth.

yea....ok

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Get em' Riper😉

Without sprituality whatever it might take it form we need a police state because humans have always been immoral, shiftless, self-gratifying, good-for-nothing shits.

i'm not a spiritual person, yet i am not immoral (not by my set of morals at least), shiftless, or good-for-nothing. i'm self-gratifying, but it is my belief that everybody is, so there isn't much i can do about that.

i think spirituality fixes this, but it is not the only thing that does so... a good upbringing and education can do the same job.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Here are some interesting statistics about religious practice in the US. Clearly, as a nation, we have become less religious.

Estimated Americans Unchurched: 195 million

Communicant membership of Protestant Churches in last 10 years has declined by 9.5%

Church/Population Ratio Declining:

1900 ... 27 churches for every 10,000 Americans

1950 ... 17 churches for every 10,000 Americans

1996 ... 11 churches for every 10,000 Americans

U.S. Loses 72.11 churches per week: 10.27 per Day

U.S. Gains 24.03 churches per week: 3.42 per Day

Net Loss: 48.08 churches per week: 6.85 per Day (4)


Church Attendance In Rapid Decline:

1991 - 49%

1992 - 47%

1993 - 45%

1994 - 45%

1995 - 45%

1996 - 37%


Violence:

The U.S. Leads the World in EVERY Category of Violent and Domestic Crime and Social Decay (5)


Missions:

U.S. Once the Number 1 Sending Nation of Missionaries

U.S. Now the 13th Largest Receptor Nation of Missionaries (5)

We Have Become a Society That 50 Years Ago Every Denomination Would Have Felt Compelled to Missionize (5)


1 January '96, Gallup Princeton Religion Report

2 Charles Arn, Autumn '96, ASCG Journal of Church Growth

3 George Barna, Church In The World Today

4 Charles Arn, Autumn '96, ASCG Journal of Church Growth

5 Tom Clegg, The Need For Church Planting In America, 1996

(Source: National Pastors' Prayer Network, RESOURCES & IDEAS, 001207)

How about comparing this to Europes Church attendance rates and crime rates.

 

[zzzz]

video games.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Get em' Riper😉

Without sprituality whatever it might take it form we need a police state because humans have always been immoral, shiftless, self-gratifying, good-for-nothing shits.

i'm not a spiritual person, yet i am not immoral (not by my set of morals at least), shiftless, or good-for-nothing. i'm self-gratifying, but it is my belief that everybody is, so there isn't much i can do about that.

i think spirituality fixes this, but it is not the only thing that does so... a good upbringing and education can do the same job.

Sure you'r spirtual, your reverance for your parents and emmulation of them is spirtitual. You are also concerned with affecting your soul and your parents soul. You know that feeling in your stomach you get when they are disappointed with you? That's soul. I said whatever form it might take. USSR did'nt have soul or spirituality therefore they had to move to a police state to control thier populus. We are doing the same for the reason I stated about human nature and lack of spirtuality.

 

[Riprorin]

Europe isn't as wonderful as you think.

Did you know that you're 6 times more likely to be mugged in London than NYC?

My wife's from France and every French person I know has been burglarized mutliple times.

My father-in-law was just violently assaulted outside his home in Paris.