How did the right get it so wrong? CA booming instead of dooming!

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Dec 10, 2005
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Indeed, but who wants to live in high density areas? It sucks. Lots of people want a home in the burbs because it's a nice way to live. Apartments are for people that can't afford a home.
1) Walking to restaurants is awesome, as is having a walkable neighborhood
2) You don't have to make neighborhoods as dense as Manhattan
-Density can be as simple as allowing duplexes, townhouses, or triplex/quadplexes
3) Single-family homes are wasteful, expensive, and may provide way more space than people want, and may require >1 automobile per adult
3a) I don't know if you've noticed, but housing is incredibly expensive in the US
3b) Lots of people also have homes in suburbs because that's all that's been built. It's not like there is a ton of housing choice.
 
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MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
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This is saying that for publicly traded companies each employee generates $500k/mo revenue. For someone earning $120k/yr that is $10k/mo which is 2% of revenue. Many people do not earn close to $120k/yr and relatively few earn more.

It seems exceedingly lopsided for an employee get such a small % of that revenue.
Thanks for the civil explanation. I miss the civil discussion around here.

Those are staggering numbers. In that environment I think workers deserve a cut. I'm assuming these numbers come after expenses. If the big guy can demand 10%, there's no reason the workers can't get more than 2% of the pie. If those numbers are gross then 2% may be a large margin depending on other factors.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,204
4,988
136
1) Walking to restaurants is awesome, as is having a walkable neighborhood
2) You don't have to make neighborhoods as dense as Manhattan
-Density can be as simple as allowing duplexes, townhouses, or triplex/quadplexes
3) Single-family homes are wasteful, expensive, and may provide way more space than people want, and may require >1 automobile per adult
3a) I don't know if you've noticed, but housing is incredibly expensive in the US
3b) Lots of people also have homes in suburbs because that's all that's been built. It's not like there is a ton of housing choice.
Housing is actually surprisingly reasonable once you get out of the metro areas. Yes, the metro areas are where the big money jobs are, but if 2/3 of your income is spent on housing the big money isn't all that great. The taxes in those areas will murder you as well, and with the SALT deductions capped it hurts even worse.
Like most folks, I'm stuck where I am for a while longer, but as soon as the numbers all align, I'm moving to the country.
 
Dec 10, 2005
23,665
6,438
136
Housing is actually surprisingly reasonable once you get out of the metro areas. Yes, the metro areas are where the big money jobs are, but if 2/3 of your income is spent on housing the big money isn't all that great. The taxes in those areas will murder you as well, and with the SALT deductions capped it hurts even worse.
Like most folks, I'm stuck where I am for a while longer, but as soon as the numbers all align, I'm moving to the country.
That's the big problem isn't it. Can't live in places without work to support yourself.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,116
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Housing is actually surprisingly reasonable once you get out of the metro areas. Yes, the metro areas are where the big money jobs are, but if 2/3 of your income is spent on housing the big money isn't all that great. The taxes in those areas will murder you as well, and with the SALT deductions capped it hurts even worse.
Like most folks, I'm stuck where I am for a while longer, but as soon as the numbers all align, I'm moving to the country.
But remember, that’s the beauty of what we are suggesting. Go live in whatever sort of place makes you happy! All we ask is that you don’t ban other people from making the kinds of places they like.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,204
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But remember, that’s the beauty of what we are suggesting. Go live in whatever sort of place makes you happy! All we ask is that you don’t ban other people from making the kinds of places they like.
I have no desire to ban anyone from living the way they want to. If I buy a home in a quiet neighborhood with like minded people don't we get to keep it a quiet neighborhood? Why do I suddenly have to have high density housing next door?
There are areas for high density, there are areas for low density, there are areas for industrial and areas for farming. This is called zoning, it's a good thing.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I have no desire to ban anyone from living the way they want to.
Uhmm, apparently you do - see below.

If I buy a home in a quiet neighborhood with like minded people don't we get to keep it a quiet neighborhood? Why do I suddenly have to have high density housing next door?
There are areas for high density, there are areas for low density, there are areas for industrial and areas for farming. This is called zoning, it's a good thing.

Why would you think that owning property nearby gives you the right to dictate what someone else does with their property? Does this work both ways? Should people be able to demand you knock your house down and build an apartment building there? If not, what’s the difference

If you want to prohibit high density housing from being built next door you’re free to buy that property and then do whatever you want with it.
 
Dec 10, 2005
23,665
6,438
136
I have no desire to ban anyone from living the way they want to. If I buy a home in a quiet neighborhood with like minded people don't we get to keep it a quiet neighborhood? Why do I suddenly have to have high density housing next door?
There are areas for high density, there are areas for low density, there are areas for industrial and areas for farming. This is called zoning, it's a good thing.
This always seems predicated on some insane idea that some developer is just going to build a giant apartment building in tbe middle of some giant SFH neighborhood, instead of the reality that an occasional home owner will decide to convert their house into a duplex or townhouse.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,905
223
106
The solution is probably to find an HSA with like-minded people. Then you can live whichever way you want, complete with crappy roads.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
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Housing is cheap in the US compared to other first world countries. You get lot of land and house for your money. US housing prices are just playing catchup to the rest of the world.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
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Indeed, but who wants to live in high density areas? It sucks. Lots of people want a home in the burbs because it's a nice way to live. Apartments are for people that can't afford a home.

You couldn't pay me to live in a home in the burbs vs a 725 sq foot 2br condo near the city.

I completely see the appeal of having a bigger home, a yard, etc.... But yeah, ummm, the priciest real estate is usually near cities. A lot of people like to live near stuff and variety too.It's not just for the jobs, a lot of people like the amenities cities provide.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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This whole thread is right-wingers trolling lefties for California being a right-wing paradise that the same right-wingers can't afford to live in.
Seriously. It's hilarious. I wonder why they do that.
 
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MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,905
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This whole thread is right-wingers trolling lefties for California being a right-wing paradise that the same right-wingers can't afford to live in.
Seriously. It's hilarious. I wonder why they do that.
The hilarious part is that this is not the case at all. Northern California wouldn't be a bad place to live for a 'right-winger.' Central California, especially the bays, wouldn't be a bad place for 'left-wingers.' It's a bit of a toss up in the south. Two wings, same bird. As a Native American sees it, they are all invaders. Honestly, it's not my kind of place because I live in a better location and quite frankly neither 'wing' really impacts my life as the vast majority of Americans lay near the center and are independents. Unfortunately the democrats, which come from from that same bird and display both wings, chose a course of policy that is impacting crime here so they can go to hell. To blame the 'left' for those policies may be warranted, but this isn't our first dance with left leaning politicians. If they would stop fucking everything up to do with keeping our country secure, I'd care less who was in Washington DC.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
34,911
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The hilarious part is that this is not the case at all. Northern California wouldn't be a bad place to live for a 'right-winger.' Central California, especially the bays, wouldn't be a bad place for 'left-wingers.' It's a bit of a toss up in the south. Two wings, same bird. As a Native American sees it, they are all invaders. Honestly, it's not my kind of place because I live in a better location and quite frankly neither 'wing' really impacts my life as the vast majority of Americans lay near the center and are independents. Unfortunately the democrats, which come from from that same bird and display both wings, chose a course of policy that is impacting crime here so they can go to hell. To blame the 'left' for those policies may be warranted, but this isn't our first dance with left leaning politicians. If they would stop fucking everything up to do with keeping our country secure, I'd care less who was in Washington DC.
Which specific policies are impacting crime?
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,204
4,988
136
Uhmm, apparently you do - see below.



Why would you think that owning property nearby gives you the right to dictate what someone else does with their property? Does this work both ways? Should people be able to demand you knock your house down and build an apartment building there? If not, what’s the difference

If you want to prohibit high density housing from being built next door you’re free to buy that property and then do whatever you want with it.

While I applaud your belief in property rights and self determination, I can't imagine how horrible a city would be without restrictions on what can be built in a given location. What if your neighbor decides to raise hogs or build a waste transfer station? Suddenly all you can smell is rotten trash or pig shit. You're ok with that? Or what if a developer comes along and buy's up all the low income housing and builds McMansions? It's his property, he gets to do whatever he wants with it.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
34,911
27,690
136
Facts are hard to accept for the woke crowd, I know. Enjoy your increases in crime.
Yes I'm sure your source controlled the 2020 results for slightly increased mask usage making it harder to identify shoplifters. Right? Right? Do us all a favor and stop shitting up this forum. Politics are not your forte.

EDIT: I cannot find ANY information about Prop 14 from 2014 anywhere on the internet. Have you ever in your life vetted any information you have ever come across? Are you even mentally capable? You crying about others not dealing in facts is a joke.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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While I applaud your belief in property rights and self determination, I can't imagine how horrible a city would be without restrictions on what can be built in a given location. What if your neighbor decides to raise hogs or build a waste transfer station? Suddenly all you can smell is rotten trash or pig shit. You're ok with that?

It’s telling that you’re forced to equate an apartment building with a hog farm. I am not saying there should be no health or safety codes, I’m saying there should be no restrictions on housing density.

Or what if a developer comes along and buy's up all the low income housing and builds McMansions? It's his property, he gets to do whatever he wants with it.
Yes, I’m fine with that! Have you been listening to anything I’ve said? If you own the land, build any kind of house you want on it. If you want to prevent an area from being developed then buy it. You want it both ways though, to be able to have the same say over property as if you own it but don’t want to pay for it.

Regardless, the correct way to help low income people find housing is to 1) remove government bans on building housing they can afford and 2) subsidize market housing payments for the very poor.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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The hilarious part is that this is not the case at all. Northern California wouldn't be a bad place to live for a 'right-winger.' Central California, especially the bays, wouldn't be a bad place for 'left-wingers.' It's a bit of a toss up in the south. Two wings, same bird. As a Native American sees it, they are all invaders. Honestly, it's not my kind of place because I live in a better location and quite frankly neither 'wing' really impacts my life as the vast majority of Americans lay near the center and are independents. Unfortunately the democrats, which come from from that same bird and display both wings, chose a course of policy that is impacting crime here so they can go to hell. To blame the 'left' for those policies may be warranted, but this isn't our first dance with left leaning politicians. If they would stop fucking everything up to do with keeping our country secure, I'd care less who was in Washington DC.

For someone who complains so much about partisanship, you sure are awfully partisan. Let me know when you have a solution to crime or unemployment or homelessness besides just pointing fingers in partisan blame.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,302
136
It’s telling that you’re forced to equate an apartment building with a hog farm. I am not saying there should be no health or safety codes, I’m saying there should be no restrictions on housing density.


Yes, I’m fine with that! Have you been listening to anything I’ve said? If you own the land, build any kind of house you want on it. If you want to prevent an area from being developed then buy it. You want it both ways though, to be able to have the same say over property as if you own it but don’t want to pay for it.

Regardless, the correct way to help low income people find housing is to 1) remove government bans on building housing they can afford and 2) subsidize market housing payments for the very poor.

It's really quite enlightening that this whole thread is right-wingers trying to fault California liberals for being too economically libertarian.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Yes I'm sure your source controlled the 2020 results for slightly increased mask usage making it harder to identify shoplifters. Right? Right? Do us all a favor and stop shitting up this forum. Politics are not your forte.

EDIT: I cannot find ANY information about Prop 14 from 2014 anywhere on the internet. Have you ever in your life vetted any information you have ever come across? Are you even mentally capable? You crying about others not dealing in facts is a joke.

I see - google is difficult for you. Does mommy still spoon feed you too?