How come most Americans are poor?

[Blazin Trav]

Originally posted by: malG
I'm Australian and here we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security. I know of many people on the dole for most of their lives. Interestingly, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries. I thought America is a rich country, how come most Americans are poor?

Subsidized college tuition? We get FASFA... not as good but close.

Free healthcare... who said we can't get that either in America?

Social Security... psh.. doesnt matter. 401k is better anyways.

We are rich, how do you consider us all poor? Where is your logic here...

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav

Originally posted by: malG
I'm Australian and here we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security. I know of many people on the dole for most of their lives. Interestingly, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries. I thought America is a rich country, how come most Americans are poor?

Subsidized college tuition? We get FASFA... not as good but close.

Free healthcare... who said we can't get that either in America?

Social Security... psh.. doesnt matter. 401k is better anyways.

We are rich, how do you consider us all poor? Where is your logic here...

We should be able to voluntarily opt out of SS and redirect that money to our 401ks.

PS love your sig

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

Minimum income (USD):

AU - 20,315
UK - 19,098
US - 10,712

You're just trolling. Aren't you? Honestly?

10,712 * 3 = 32,136

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

So Aussie's make $16/hr+, or $33k+ a year, to stand around flipping burgers? How much does a burger cost there?

 

[So]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid DOUBLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employees in America are underpaid.

Your argument is that AUS $12.62 is an unacceptable? Considering that your country fairs nearly $4000 worse when comparing GDP/Capita w/ GDP PPP / Capita, whereas the US fairs a mere $400 worse, it is evident that your "wonderful" excessive minimum wage has simply pushed up the cost of living and hurt your economy while netting nothing for workers that produce the same product. This nets you nothing more than the ability to smugly quote that you feel the US minimum wage is insufficient. I'll keep lower inflation, thanks.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

Minimum income (USD):

AU - 20,315
UK - 19,098
US - 10,712

You're just trolling. Aren't you? Honestly?

10,712 * 3 = 32,136

Federal minimum wage in US: $5.15/hour

Minimum wage in my state is $16/hour but nobody wants to work if you paid under $18/hour.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

Minimum income (USD):

AU - 20,315
UK - 19,098
US - 10,712

You're just trolling. Aren't you? Honestly?

10,712 * 3 = 32,136

Federal minimum wage in US: $5.15/hour

Minimum wage in my state is $16/hour but nobody wants to work if you paid under $18/hour.

What does gas and a hamburger cost in Australia?

Also what percent of that $16/hr paycheck do you actually get to keep and what % is taxed to pay for free health care, free college, to subsidized businesses to pay entry level workers $16/hr, etc ?

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Here are some raw numbers:
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2005tbls.htm

As a % of our population, minimum wage only accounts for about 2.5% of all hourly workers. And when you drill down into it even more, you can see that over half of that are teenagers/college students, and another very large chunk are waitresses that are compsentated with tips that do not count towards their salary.

All of your spinning is making you dizzy and unable to see straight.

 

[voodoodrul]

You know, the problem with health insurance is that it is just as socialist as universal health care, except you pay the premiums and hope their pay your claims.

The problem with health insurance is that every insurance pool is far too small. Lets say your friend at work gets sick and you are both on the same plan. You pay for every penny of his services by an increase in your companies insurance premium. The insurance company sure isn't going to lose money on the deal..

Insurance is a for-profit operation. They are in it to make money, nothing more. So as people actually use the insurance, the rates keep going up. There aren't enough people paying into the pool, usually, to dampen the rise in costs, so the premium just keeps going up.

What we need, at the very least, is one massive pool that covers everyone in the country. That way if one person has a massive claim (say, $5,000,000) it doesn't cause your premiums to go up in an appreciable way.

Health care isn't free, but in my mind, for-profit health insurance is evil..

Remember, the IRS and the Federal Reserve are private companies.. Are they somehow less of a scary beast than they would be as a part of the federal government?

Quit scare mongering that universal healthcare is bad. You already pay for everyone not on insurance anyway. Get used to the fact that you live in a society and yes, you are responsible for helping someone else.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

I think this is partly where American culture splits from that of the rest of the world. In American culture you are expected to move OUT of the entry-level position into a better paying position. This is encouraged by paying lower-skilled workers a minimal amount. Many other countries that lean towards socialism set a relatively high minimum wage which encourages individuals to stay in those positions.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid DOUBLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employees in America are underpaid.

it is evident that your "wonderful" excessive minimum wage has simply pushed up the cost of living and hurt your economy while netting nothing for workers that produce the same product.

Do you have facts and figures to backup your foolish claims?

According to our reserve bank, inflation is at a low single digit figure since the 70s.

Next time, engage your brain before typing.

 

[voodoodrul]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

Minimum income (USD):

AU - 20,315
UK - 19,098
US - 10,712

You're just trolling. Aren't you? Honestly?

10,712 * 3 = 32,136

Federal minimum wage in US: $5.15/hour

Minimum wage in my state is $16/hour but nobody wants to work if you paid under $18/hour.

What does gas and a hamburger cost in Australia?

Also what percent of that $16/hr paycheck do you actually get to keep and what % is taxed to pay for free health care, free college, to subsidized businesses to pay entry level workers $16/hr, etc ?

Those "freebies" would account for a humorously small percentage of the national defense budget. I have a feeling that malG gets to keep at least as much of his money. About 26% goes to taxes for me. And I never receive one benefit from it except, well, some asshats playing war games telling me they are "saving me from those trying to strip my freedoms.. Now go back to work and piss off.."

 

[voodoodrul]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

I think this is partly where American culture splits from that of the rest of the world. In American culture you are expected to move OUT of the entry-level position into a better paying position. This is encouraged by paying lower-skilled workers a minimal amount. Many other countries that lean towards socialism set a relatively high minimum wage which encourages individuals to stay in those positions.

True, true.. Except one problem. I would like to find the higher paying positions already.. They don't exist anywhere near me, so I guess everyone that lives here doesn't get to play ball..

 

[Blazin Trav]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav

Originally posted by: malG
I'm Australian and here we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security. I know of many people on the dole for most of their lives. Interestingly, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries. I thought America is a rich country, how come most Americans are poor?

Subsidized college tuition? We get FASFA... not as good but close.

Free healthcare... who said we can't get that either in America?

Social Security... psh.. doesnt matter. 401k is better anyways.

We are rich, how do you consider us all poor? Where is your logic here...

We should be able to voluntarily opt out of SS and redirect that money to our 401ks.

PS love your sig

Precisely... I don't see how you Aussies seem to think you guys are kings of the world. Seems like any Aussie I have met is always full of themselves. $16 an hour in the US is not much... hell if you do computer consulting you can make $20 an hour, easily. Just because minimum wage jobs suck and don't pay well doesn't mean people should just sit there and wonder how to make more than $10/hr.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: voodoodrul

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

I think this is partly where American culture splits from that of the rest of the world. In American culture you are expected to move OUT of the entry-level position into a better paying position. This is encouraged by paying lower-skilled workers a minimal amount. Many other countries that lean towards socialism set a relatively high minimum wage which encourages individuals to stay in those positions.

True, true.. Except one problem. I would like to find the higher paying positions already.. They don't exist anywhere near me, so I guess everyone that lives here doesn't get to play ball..

You have a choice to live there or move and seek opportunity elsewhere. It's not the gov't fault you choose to stay and make your current wages.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav

Originally posted by: malG
I'm Australian and here we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security. I know of many people on the dole for most of their lives. Interestingly, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries. I thought America is a rich country, how come most Americans are poor?

Subsidized college tuition? We get FASFA... not as good but close.

Free healthcare... who said we can't get that either in America?

Social Security... psh.. doesnt matter. 401k is better anyways.

We are rich, how do you consider us all poor? Where is your logic here...

We should be able to voluntarily opt out of SS and redirect that money to our 401ks.

PS love your sig

Precisely... I don't see how you Aussies seem to think you guys are kings of the world. Seems like any Aussie I have met is always full of themselves. $16 an hour in the US is not much... hell if you do computer consulting you can make $20 an hour, easily. Just because minimum wage jobs suck and don't pay well doesn't mean people should just sit there and wonder how to make more than $10/hr.

Minimum wage basically only guarantees that you can't be exploited and that you can get SOME kind of money from SOME kind of job if all else fails, even if it is crappy. Another way to look at it is that minimum wage outlaws outright slavery, it does not set the definition for some arbitrary minimum standard of living. Minimum wage DOES NOT MEAN minimum living standard. I means just what it means, minimum WAGE, as in you have to PAY for labor you can't get it for free.

What its NOT is a guaranteed way of supporting a family of 8 and buying a new house and 3 cars like many people think it is supposed to be.

Minimum wage is NOT the minimum living standard of 2.5 kids and a white picket fence and a SUV.

Again, in bold: minimum WAGE != minimum STANDARD OF LIVING

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: voodoodrul

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

I think this is partly where American culture splits from that of the rest of the world. In American culture you are expected to move OUT of the entry-level position into a better paying position. This is encouraged by paying lower-skilled workers a minimal amount. Many other countries that lean towards socialism set a relatively high minimum wage which encourages individuals to stay in those positions.

True, true.. Except one problem. I would like to find the higher paying positions already.. They don't exist anywhere near me, so I guess everyone that lives here doesn't get to play ball..

You have a choice to live there or move and seek opportunity elsewhere. It's not the tax payers' fault you choose to stay and make your current wages.

Fixed for you

 

[Scarpozzi]

Because they buy figurines and other crap they don't need from QVC.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: voodoodrul

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

Minimum income (USD):

AU - 20,315
UK - 19,098
US - 10,712

You're just trolling. Aren't you? Honestly?

10,712 * 3 = 32,136

Federal minimum wage in US: $5.15/hour

Minimum wage in my state is $16/hour but nobody wants to work if you paid under $18/hour.

What does gas and a hamburger cost in Australia?

Also what percent of that $16/hr paycheck do you actually get to keep and what % is taxed to pay for free health care, free college, to subsidized businesses to pay entry level workers $16/hr, etc ?

Those "freebies" would account for a humorously small percentage of the national defense budget. I have a feeling that malG gets to keep at least as much of his money. About 26% goes to taxes for me. And I never receive one benefit from it except, well, some asshats playing war games telling me they are "saving me from those trying to strip my freedoms.. Now go back to work and piss off.."

Medicare and Medicaid alone already cost more than the US national defense budget. Throw in Social Security and Welfare and the national defense budget is dwarfed next to entitlement spending.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: exdeath

What does gas and a hamburger cost in Australia?

Also what percent of that $16/hr paycheck do you actually get to keep and what % is taxed to pay for free health care, free college, to subsidized businesses to pay entry level workers $16/hr, etc ?

Cost of living and price of Big Mac in Perth, Western Australia.

You'll be surprised!!!

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: Queasy
BTW, poor compared to what? Even poor Americans enjoy a standard of living much higher than the rest of the world...including Europe.

hahahaha. I read that "standard of living" all the time. Its total BOLLOCKS.

Dont get me wrong, as someone who lived 7+ years in the states its NOT my intention to bash the usa. But..please define "standard of living" ?

As an example, and i can ONLY speak for Germany now:

* health care, health insurance, social security, unemployment security
NO WAY IN HELL the us comes even close there. We pay A LOT of taxes, i totally agree....but....we also get something BACK from the taxes we pay....in the US those go to IRAQ.

* Public Transportation

*Price of groceries
Germany is known to have VERY LOW priced grocery discounters. Thats one reason Walmart FAILED in Germany since they couldnt compete with the low margins here. (This was new to me too)


* CERTAIN internet infrastructure.
Most/Many people in Europe have a 16MB/1MB DSL line....i havent even SEEN speeds like that advertized ANYWHERE over in the US...be it comcast or whatever provider i had....

Give me examples please for "higher standard of living" in the us


Edit: Yes...i agree...my personal impression is that the MIDDLECLASS is big in the states..many people DO have average jobs, barely paying bills etc..etc. Not really "poor" tho. But then there ARE many really poor people since (as said) things like unemployment insurance etc. are as good as nonexistent.

And...i dont need to mention that very known term "working poor"...the many people who work hard 40+ hrs but STILL are poor because the jobs just pay **** and no H/Ins.

IIRC, Germany also has a much higher population density as a whole when compared to the U.S. Public transportation, network infrastructure, etc... are harder to implement when you've got states like Kansas where there's nothing but farmland for miles and miles. From what I remember when I was in Europe, you couldn't spit without hitting one of your neighbors...

Germany also enjoys a 9.2% unemployment rate. They were in the double-digits for a while.

That's unpossible! I thought the European countries were a "worker's paradise" :Q

Didn't France also have almost 15,000 people die as the result of a heat wave? Not a natural disaster. Not a war. A heat wave. Germany saw something on the order of 7,000 people die. The EU as a whole saw something around 35,000 people die.

Where was the wonderful loving nanny state then to help the people? How's that for a standard of living?

A heat wave is a natural disaster. Secondly, it had nothing to do with France's infrastructure, and everything to do with the fact that most doctors, city-workers, nurses, and paramedics were on holiday in the South of France, and that France's Health Minister was a total moron.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: voodoodrul

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Hence in my book, every entry level employee in America is underpaid.

I think this is partly where American culture splits from that of the rest of the world. In American culture you are expected to move OUT of the entry-level position into a better paying position. This is encouraged by paying lower-skilled workers a minimal amount. Many other countries that lean towards socialism set a relatively high minimum wage which encourages individuals to stay in those positions.

True, true.. Except one problem. I would like to find the higher paying positions already.. They don't exist anywhere near me, so I guess everyone that lives here doesn't get to play ball..

Yup, that is just part of the American system though. You essentially have two extremes here. You can work in a socialist country where your comfort is damn near guaranteed regardless of how little you work, yet you will stand a far lower chance of ever "making it big." Or you can choose the US where you could be broke or you could be a millionaire, it all depends on how much work you put into it and your skills (though luck does play a part).

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: Queasy
BTW, poor compared to what? Even poor Americans enjoy a standard of living much higher than the rest of the world...including Europe.

hahahaha. I read that "standard of living" all the time. Its total BOLLOCKS.

Dont get me wrong, as someone who lived 7+ years in the states its NOT my intention to bash the usa. But..please define "standard of living" ?

As an example, and i can ONLY speak for Germany now:

* health care, health insurance, social security, unemployment security
NO WAY IN HELL the us comes even close there. We pay A LOT of taxes, i totally agree....but....we also get something BACK from the taxes we pay....in the US those go to IRAQ.

* Public Transportation

*Price of groceries
Germany is known to have VERY LOW priced grocery discounters. Thats one reason Walmart FAILED in Germany since they couldnt compete with the low margins here. (This was new to me too)


* CERTAIN internet infrastructure.
Most/Many people in Europe have a 16MB/1MB DSL line....i havent even SEEN speeds like that advertized ANYWHERE over in the US...be it comcast or whatever provider i had....

Give me examples please for "higher standard of living" in the us


Edit: Yes...i agree...my personal impression is that the MIDDLECLASS is big in the states..many people DO have average jobs, barely paying bills etc..etc. Not really "poor" tho. But then there ARE many really poor people since (as said) things like unemployment insurance etc. are as good as nonexistent.

And...i dont need to mention that very known term "working poor"...the many people who work hard 40+ hrs but STILL are poor because the jobs just pay **** and no H/Ins.

IIRC, Germany also has a much higher population density as a whole when compared to the U.S. Public transportation, network infrastructure, etc... are harder to implement when you've got states like Kansas where there's nothing but farmland for miles and miles. From what I remember when I was in Europe, you couldn't spit without hitting one of your neighbors...

Germany also enjoys a 9.2% unemployment rate. They were in the double-digits for a while.

That's unpossible! I thought the European countries were a "worker's paradise" :Q

Didn't France also have almost 15,000 people die as the result of a heat wave? Not a natural disaster. Not a war. A heat wave. Germany saw something on the order of 7,000 people die. The EU as a whole saw something around 35,000 people die.

Where was the wonderful loving nanny state then to help the people? How's that for a standard of living?

A heat wave is a natural disaster. Secondly, it had nothing to do with France's infrastructure, and everything to do with the fact that most doctors, city-workers, nurses, and paramedics were on holiday in the South of France, and that France's Health Minister was a total moron.

This wasn't just France but the entire EU - 35,000 people dead.

We have heatwaves in the USA all the time. We don't see tens of thousands of people die. Why? Because the "poor" people here in the US have ample access to things like air conditioning and water. You'll hear of a few people die but those are almost always the elderly or infirmed who were susceptible to begin with.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav
Subsidized college tuition? We get FASFA... not as good but close.

not only do we get FAFSA, we get in-state tuition. that's subsidized too.