House set to begin formal impeachment hearings

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,838
10,208
136
Looks like the only way to get much done in these Dis-United States of America is to win the Senate, House and White House., then get a couple of fortuitous SCOTUS appointments and somehow iron clad your legislation and court decisions so they can't be summarily or otherwise undone after subsequent elections.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,841
31,331
146
Yeah, but she should have known that the Impeachment hearings were a waste of time from the beginning. I'll let her take the blame on not being able to keep her party in line and focused on real legislation that can get passed instead of constant grandstanding.

eh? McConnel has been sitting on some 300 bills that the House has passed since 2018, and he refuses to even address them, because he believes that he has no duty whatsoever as an elected US legislator.

What the hell is this "Pelosi can't focus on legislation" nonsense?
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
136
eh? McConnel has been sitting on some 300 bills that the House has passed since 2018, and he refuses to even address them, because he believes that he has no duty whatsoever as an elected US legislator.

What the hell is this "Pelosi can't focus on legislation" nonsense?
More ignoring reality. These idiots keep regurgitating the "Dems weren't doing the work of congress because of impeachment" yet as you say, bills were piling up on McConnells desk. These idiots don't want to know the truth because the lies make them feel good.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,363
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High levels of smartness, eh? Funny thing is that people who are that smart have been impotent. Politicians aren't all that smart with few exceptions. Granted most people aren't either but there are a great many serving in government who are subject but subject to the will of those who deal in the real coin of the realm, power.
I was referring to the founders who developed our system of government we're so fond of citing but hate the idea of actually following.
The purpose of Impeachment was never the removal of Trump, but to damage the amount of power he wields by undercutting him with facts damning enough that people would be motivated to vote against him more than now.
Funny, it sounded a lot like every Democrat involved in the impeachment proceedings wanted him removed, as did every citizen calling for his removal post-impeachment. How on earth does impeachment without removal undercut him? He's been even more blatant since the Senate failed in their duty. Hell, at this point everyone knows exactly what kind of person he is, an impeachment wasn't going to convince them to vote in a different direction.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
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I was referring to the founders who developed our system of government we're so fond of citing but hate the idea of actually following.

Funny, it sounded a lot like every Democrat involved in the impeachment proceedings wanted him removed, as did every citizen calling for his removal post-impeachment. How on earth does impeachment without removal undercut him? He's been even more blatant since the Senate failed in their duty. Hell, at this point everyone knows exactly what kind of person he is, an impeachment wasn't going to convince them to vote in a different direction.


Our Founders were smart but their wisdom did not forsee a Trump.

As to the latter, sure Dems wanted to get a case against Trump out there. Where was the fact that the law against withholding funds brought up? It wasn't and I believe I posted about that before the impeachment ended. Nada, but there's this.

In the summer of 2019, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) withheld from obligation funds appropriated to the Department of Defense (DOD) for security assistance to Ukraine. In order to withhold the funds, OMB issued a series of nine apportionment schedules with footnotes that made all unobligated balances unavailable for obligation.
Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA.
Read the press statement.

That's from the GAO itself and it's stupidly simple to demonstrate as a core violation of law in fact without any doubt. Would that get the Senate to convict? Hell no, but this was an instrument to use to hammer in on left and right along with other things the House should have known would be buried.

IMO the House made a factually strong case with the most naive political approach possible. We need a revolution of sorts and this was hardly inspiring. We don't really matter. Trumpettes don't really matter either in the sense that we know what is at stake and are going to vote, but where is the fire in the belly that inspires? That's not purely rhetorical.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,363
16,634
146
Our Founders were smart but their wisdom did not forsee a Trump.
Yeah they did, that's why the impeachment clause was included. They did not forsee the current Republican party, and the structure that supports them.
As to the latter, sure Dems wanted to get a case against Trump out there. Where was the fact that the law against withholding funds brought up? It wasn't and I believe I posted about that before the impeachment ended. Nada, but there's this.
It wasn't necessary. It was discussed ad nauseum on this forum, that if Democrats had walked into the house (or the house to the senate) with any charges or comments that Republicans could have gotten a fingernail under, they would have and shredded the entire proceeding. They still did that, but they had to do it based on procedural garbage and whatever shit they felt like making up, instead of attacking the substance of the articles as they were. The house Democrats did their due diligence on that part, by focusing on two charges that were so blatant, so obvious, and so easy to understand that they were textbook reasons for impeachment.

Yes the withholding was illegal, we all know that, the fucking Senate Republicans know that, but impeachment is a time where 'less is more'.
IMO the House made a factually strong case with the most naive political approach possible. We need a revolution of sorts and this was hardly inspiring. We don't really matter. Trumpettes don't really matter either in the sense that we know what is at stake and are going to vote, but where is the fire in the belly that inspires? That's not purely rhetorical.
Belly fire won't fix this, it just escalates the existing conflict from a cold civil war to a hot one. At this point, I'm convinced that our government as we knew it is dying on the vine, or is dead already. Nothing short of a complete cycling of all existing congress members will cleanse it, and given that you cannot cycle them all at once (legally) it probably won't happen. The only other alternative is for the Republican party to just roll over and die, and soon, like before another Republican president gets elected. That MIGHT be enough to revive our political infrastructure and calm down the insanity we've seen over the last ~10 years. You may call it defeatist, I call it realistic. We've been shown exactly the level at which our political bodies are permitted to operate, and we need only a single president as vile as Trump but actually competent to see the entire republic collapse.
 
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Jan 25, 2011
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Just going to leave this here but it probably deserves it's own thread.

Lawyers for Julian Assange, the founder of the radical pro-transparency group WikiLeaks, told a court that he plans to call a witness who will allege that Assange was offered a presidential pardon if he said Russia was not involved in hacking and stealing information from the Democratic National Committee during the 2016 US election.

That's according to James Doleman, a British court and technology reporter.

Doleman said that Assange's team claims the witness will allege that Assange was offered a pardon if he would "play ball."

Sonia Gallego, an Al Jazeera reporter, also confirmed the news, saying it was revealed at the hearing that Dana Rohrabacher, a former US Republican congressman known for his pro-Russia stance, told Assange during a meeting at the Ecuadorian embassy in London that President Donald Trump would pardon Assange if he denied Russia's involvement in the DNC hack.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
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High levels of smartness, eh? Funny thing is that people who are that smart have been impotent. Politicians aren't all that smart with few exceptions. Granted most people aren't either but there are a great many serving in government who are subject but subject to the will of those who deal in the real coin of the realm, power.

The purpose of Impeachment was never the removal of Trump, but to damage the amount of power he wields by undercutting him with facts damning enough that people would be motivated to vote against him more than now.

If you want to blame the criminal then there's no argument, but if a case is mere political considerations and "done by Christmas" had no reasonable reason to be, then that's fine too if that meets with your approval, but you will be mighty tired indeed of hearing it pointed out.

It's not like Trump breaking the law to a more egregious degree would change Republican minds, but again it might have influenced some people to come out in November. Not millions more, but I believe this is the Dem's race to lose and they might pull defeat from the jaws of victory yet again.

YMMV

There is one thing we should do at this forum, and that would be to remove "honored dead" sticky because we didn't give a crap about justice for them either.

That's merely back biting. The investigation unfolded in such a way that ample evidence of guilt was established & further information was not obtainable in a reasonable time frame. It's just how the cookie crumbled.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,725
6,752
126
The people have been taught that only the elite can or should have any say in politics, that to be political is to dirty yourself with concerns that have no relevance to everyday life. It is a theater for a useless group of people and has nothing to do with putting food on the table. When your life is filled with shit, you don't help yourself to a bigger portion of shit. Who needs that kind of stress.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
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IMO the House made a factually strong case with the most naive political approach possible. We need a revolution of sorts and this was hardly inspiring. We don't really matter. Trumpettes don't really matter either in the sense that we know what is at stake and are going to vote, but where is the fire in the belly that inspires? That's not purely rhetorical.

It's a different kind of fire, a slow & persistent burn. It flared up in 2018 & likely will again in November. No point in burning up all the fuel before then.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
The people have been taught that only the elite can or should have any say in politics, that to be political is to dirty yourself with concerns that have no relevance to everyday life. It is a theater for a useless group of people and has nothing to do with putting food on the table. When your life is filled with shit, you don't help yourself to a bigger portion of shit. Who needs that kind of stress.

It has everything to do with putting food on the table. Politics define the rules of doing that.
 
Jan 25, 2011
17,073
9,550
146

Just going to leave this here but it probably deserves it's own thread.
Ummmm... This is getting very interesting very fast. Lawyers don't usually make claims like this in open court if they can't back it up.


But wait, there's more.

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,841
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jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,082
15,537
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Weird. I was told that the Russians were just red scare red herrings by so many folks here... now we find out they were really interfering? *gasp!*
But....... What happened? Assange played ball... Trump forgot to pay his bills again and Assange got tired of waiting?

Also if this gets vetted... Impeachment?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Weird. I was told that the Russians were just red scare red herrings by so many folks here... now we find out they were really interfering? *gasp!*

When Trump, the GOP & Putin's boys merged their efforts they created the most potent mind fuck effort in the history of propaganda. It had a devastating effect on the minds of 62M Americans. They went thru the looking glass in electing Trump.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Assange is claiming that he shouldn't be extradited to the US because he'll be treated unfairly because he didn't play ball. It's not like he can just conjure up the unicorn that Rohrabacher asked for, anyway.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,491
16,967
136
Are those bills really "bipartisan" if they're passed in the house knowing that they stand no chance of doing so in the Senate?

Oh, and cut it out with the Fox and Friends crap. I don't watch that.


Do you know how legislation works at the federal level? Do you need a civics lesson on how bills become laws? Take a guess at who isn’t doing their job.

How_Bill_Becomes_Law.png
 
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