Holder's Ballot Given to Young Man

[FuzzyBee]

Thats great and all, but please produce a study that has demonstrated that voter fraud has even remotely influenced the outcome of an election. Lets not pretend that Republican attempts to tighten voting requirements is anything but what it really is, which is attempted voter suppression. For every 1 fraudulent vote these laws attempt to prevent, they would probably suppress 100 legitimate votes.

This argument is akin to the death penalty IMO. Even a 1% margin of error is unacceptable. Unless we adopt national ID cards in this country, which I have no problem with, these laws should not stand.

I love how people around here throw out numbers as if they mean something.

 

[LTC8K6]

He didn't obtain proof of voter fraud unless you count what he did as voter fraud, in which case he should be charged.

He should have taken the ballot, possibly committing actual voter fraud and then claimed whistle blower status if they tried to prosecute.

By not going through with it, he has given them an out, and they immediately used it.

 

[monovillage]

I love how people around here throw out numbers as if they mean something.

If you don't have any facts, then make them up as you go.

 

[FuzzyBee]

If you don't have any facts, then make them up as you go.

85.12% of the people here do that. That's a known fact.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

lol, this thread is hilarious and predictable. Give it up already - the fact is - it can be done easily and would be prevented easily with voter ID laws in place. The claim of "no need" is bunk - it's been repeatedly shown just how easy it is.

 

[monovillage]

85.12% of the people here do that. That's a known fact.

lol, "pretend facts have a liberal bias". I think Jon Stewart the great communicator said that.

 

[FoBoT]

I'm asking "common sense" - not "by the law".

if we go by "common sense" - not "by the law" , there will be anarchy
chaos in the streets
ducks sleeping with yellow birds, there will be anarchy on the freeways

 

[xBiffx]

Thats great and all, but please produce a study that has demonstrated that voter fraud has even remotely influenced the outcome of an election. Lets not pretend that Republican attempts to tighten voting requirements is anything but what it really is, which is attempted voter suppression. For every 1 fraudulent vote these laws attempt to prevent, they would probably suppress 100 legitimate votes.

This argument is akin to the death penalty IMO. Even a 1% margin of error is unacceptable. Unless we adopt national ID cards in this country, which I have no problem with, these laws should not stand.

I am gonna start doing something about HIV once I have proof that I have contracted it. To do anything about it now is silly because how do I know if my gf has HIV. I don't want to ask her to get tested either. I wouldn't want to disenfranchise her right to dignity/privacy. After all her state of mind is more important than my livelihood. /sarcasm

Being proactive is advantageous unlike being reactive, which is useless once the damage is done.

 

[FuzzyBee]

if we go by "common sense" - not "by the law" , there will be anarchy
chaos in the streets
ducks sleeping with yellow birds, there will be anarchy on the freeways

hah!

 

[xBiffx]

if we go by "common sense" - not "by the law" , there will be anarchy
chaos in the streets
ducks sleeping with yellow birds, there will be anarchy on the freeways

I lol'ed.

 

[Mxylplyx]

I am gonna start doing something about HIV once I have proof that I have contracted it. To do anything about it now is silly because how do I know if my gf has HIV. I don't want to ask her to get tested either. I wouldn't want to disenfranchise her right to dignity/privacy. After all her state of mind is more important than my livelihood. /sarcasm

Being proactive is advantageous unlike being reactive, which is useless once the damage is done.

So do you believe that voter fraud is on the rise? Do you have reason to believe that voter fraud has been a problem in the past? What specific group do you have in mind that is going to be perpetuating this fraud? Blacks, Mexicans, poor people? Middle class whites perhaps?

Most importantly, do you believe the number of fraudulent votes prevented would be more than the number of legitimate votes suppressed?

 

[xBiffx]

So do you believe that voter fraud is on the rise? Do you have reason to believe that voter fraud has been a problem in the past? What specific group do you have in mind that is going to be perpetuating this fraud? Blacks, Mexicans, poor people? Middle class whites perhaps?

Most importantly, do you believe the number of fraudulent votes prevented would be more than the number of legitimate votes suppressed?

I will stipulate that voter fraud has not been proven in many cases but for many reasons, the most valid being that to do so would require breaking the law. The left must stipulate that it has been proven that voter fraud can be committed, and in some cases, quite easily. Now, I am not about to start putting a label on a group saying who would perpetuate such fraud. The fact that it is so easy to commit voter fraud anyone could do it and its so simple to eliminate a very large avenue to it. This pretty much screams for a common sense solution, i.e. voter ID. Same exact discussion comes into play with regards to purchasing a firearm. It so easy to eliminate a majority of issues by requiring ID.

How is requiring a voter ID going to disenfranchise a single voter. Every state that has these laws also provides ID free of charge for the purpose of voting. Again, aside from lazy asses, who is getting left out?

 

[thraashman]

Thats great and all, but please produce a study that has demonstrated that voter fraud has even remotely influenced the outcome of an election. Lets not pretend that Republican attempts to tighten voting requirements is anything but what it really is, which is attempted voter suppression. For every 1 fraudulent vote these laws attempt to prevent, they would probably suppress 100 legitimate votes.

This argument is akin to the death penalty IMO. Even a 1% margin of error is unacceptable. Unless we adopt national ID cards in this country, which I have no problem with, these laws should not stand.

Actually, I did the math at one point based on estimated percentage that would be disenfranchised vs estimated occurence of voter fraud from studies. And the actual rate, assuming the voter id laws stop 100% of voter fraud is that it would stop 1 fraudulent vote for every 250,000 voters it supresses. If you use the highest estimated rates of voter fraud occurrence, it's instead 1 to 50,000. And even if 90% of the people estimated to be disenfranchised are able to get ready on time for the election, a virtually impossible feat. Then we'd still have at best a 1 to 5,000 ratio. Basically, the math doesn't lie. There's is absolutely no truth in the claim that this is to combat voter fraud and 100% truth in the fact that this is about voter suppression.

 

[xBiffx]

Actually, I did the math at one point based on estimated percentage that would be disenfranchised vs estimated occurence of voter fraud from studies. And the actual rate, assuming the voter id laws stop 100% of voter fraud is that it would stop 1 fraudulent vote for every 250,000 voters it supresses. If you use the highest estimated rates of voter fraud occurrence, it's instead 1 to 50,000. And even if 90% of the people estimated to be disenfranchised are able to get ready on time for the election, a virtually impossible feat. Then we'd still have at best a 1 to 5,000 ratio. Basically, the math doesn't lie. There's is absolutely no truth in the claim that this is to combat voter fraud and 100% truth in the fact that this is about voter suppression.

You did the math, before or after monkeys flew out of your butt?

Seriously though, you have anything resembling a fact to back up those numbers? Second time I have asked btw (although not specifically from you).

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I find it oddly comical that we have had more threads on voter fraud on AT in the last 6 months than there have been documented cases of voter fraud, preventable by photo ID, in the last 10 years.

 

[xBiffx]

I find it oddly comical that we have had more threads on voter fraud on AT in the last 6 months than there have been documented cases of voter fraud, preventable by photo ID, in the last 10 years.

Probably because people who break the law, generally don't tend to advertise it.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Probably because people who break the law, generally don't tend to advertise it.

Yup and people only ever get caught when they advertise.....and I'm not talking convictions or charges here, I'm talking actual document incidents, charges or not.

 

[monovillage]

I find it oddly comical that we have had more threads on voter fraud on AT in the last 6 months than there have been documented cases of voter fraud, preventable by photo ID, in the last 10 years.

Pretend facts have a liberal bias.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Can I just suggest an alternative?

I just applied for a concealed pistol license in the state of Washington. That means that I went, filled out some paperwork stating I'm not a felon and all that, but more importantly, once I filled it out and paid my dues (and they checked that there were no warrants out for me) I was then taken to a machine that scanned in my fingerprints - both hands. Both the impressions, and then a roll of my fingers (both hands.)

Pretty painless process, just slightly time consuming. Why not just forget about photo ID, fingerprint everyone when they register to vote, and then do a fingerprint check on them when they arrive to vote. Scan their hand, and if they match the recorded fingerprints, then they can vote.

It's easy to find duplicates - just scan the database for fingerprints that are the same. And make EVERYONE do this, and have the taxpayers eat the cost. How is this so bad? The biggest issue is the cost of it. In fact, I think it's the only real issue.

 

[Jhhnn]

Can I just suggest an alternative?

I just applied for a concealed pistol license in the state of Washington. That means that I went, filled out some paperwork stating I'm not a felon and all that, but more importantly, once I filled it out and paid my dues (and they checked that there were no warrants out for me) I was then taken to a machine that scanned in my fingerprints - both hands. Both the impressions, and then a roll of my fingers (both hands.)

Pretty painless process, just slightly time consuming. Why not just forget about photo ID, fingerprint everyone when they register to vote, and then do a fingerprint check on them when they arrive to vote. Scan their hand, and if they match the recorded fingerprints, then they can vote.

It's easy to find duplicates - just scan the database for fingerprints that are the same. And make EVERYONE do this, and have the taxpayers eat the cost. How is this so bad? The biggest issue is the cost of it. In fact, I think it's the only real issue.

Add an anal probe & a DNA test, just to be sure.

If voter fraud existed to any appreciable degree, it'd be easy to prove when the real Eric Holder showed up to vote and found that somebody else had voted in his stead, or when votes in his name were both at the polls & absentee. That is a logical and inevitable consequence of the kind of fraud alleged to exist. Those claiming it exists should be able to show numerous examples of such, so have at it.

When voter ID advocates fail to show cause, fail to make their case wrt voter fraud, it's obvious that their leadership wants voter ID for some other reason. It can be no other way.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Add an anal probe & a DNA test, just to be sure.

Hurray, you took a reasonable idea and instead of talking about its merits and actually addressing it, you just tried to dismiss it with nonsense.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hurray, you took a reasonable idea and instead of talking about its merits and actually addressing it, you just tried to dismiss it with nonsense.

It is nonsense, so I treated it as such. You had to show who you were with picture ID before they took your fingerprints, so what you offer is a non sequiter. Photo ID & fingerprints isn't a lessening of the burden to vote, at all.

"Voter Fraud" is its own kind of fraud, like rapture insurance. Don't show me it could happen, show me that it does happen. We could all be wiped out by a giant meteorite next week, too...

 

[monovillage]

It is nonsense, so I treated it as such. You had to show who you were with picture ID before they took your fingerprints, so what you offer is a non sequiter. Photo ID & fingerprints isn't a lessening of the burden to vote, at all.

"Voter Fraud" is its own kind of fraud, like rapture insurance. Don't show me it could happen, show me that it does happen. We could all be wiped out by a giant meteorite next week, too...

Did you miss my earlier link? Here's it is, I know how easy it is to sometimes overlook pertinent links and then ask for them again.
http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2012/01/02/naacp-worker-sentenced-to-prison-for-voter-fraud/

There's others if you really need them.

 

[RampantAndroid]

It is nonsense, so I treated it as such. You had to show who you were with picture ID before they took your fingerprints, so what you offer is a non sequiter. Photo ID & fingerprints isn't a lessening of the burden to vote, at all.

Really? I never said what you need to show to get it. I simply said that in a system where you can easily index all known fingerprints, barring someone doing what Kevin Spacey's character in Se7en did, you can only register ONE TIME. That in of itself to me is a GREAT protection. Further, I said that the burden of cost should be on the taxpayer.

Given what I said about cost, how is it a burden to vote? It's no more a burden than it is registering to vote.

 

[FuzzyBee]

It is nonsense, so I treated it as such. You had to show who you were with picture ID before they took your fingerprints, so what you offer is a non sequiter. Photo ID & fingerprints isn't a lessening of the burden to vote, at all.

"Voter Fraud" is its own kind of fraud, like rapture insurance. Don't show me it could happen, show me that it does happen. We could all be wiped out by a giant meteorite next week, too...

Once again, "man-made global warming"...