Holder's Ballot Given to Young Man

[xBiffx]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/08/DC-Polling-Place-Holder-Ballot

I know, Breitbart.com as source commenting on the unsurprising ease to commit vote fraud. I expect nothing but well informed and honest discussion to ensue in this thread. I also expect the repeated call for charges against the investigator for willingly committing vote fraud. After all, that's the alarming thing about this story.

Still, there is no way to prove voter fraud exists or that it exists in a frequency that those on the left feel is noteworthy amiright? I mean, this is just an isolated case after all. It really couldn't be this easy to get a ballot for some random nobody, could it?

 

[dphantom]

I like showing my ID card (drivers license) when I vote and see the person look my name up and highlight it to show I have voted. No way fraud can then take place, at least at that point.

And I just do not understand how anyone could not have some form of picture ID today.

 

[rudder]

I like showing my ID card (drivers license) when I vote and see the person look my name up and highlight it to show I have voted. No way fraud can then take place, at least at that point.

And I just do not understand how anyone could not have some form of picture ID today.

Also, the ones without ID's are usually eligible for voting via absentee ballot... elderly, physically disabled, etc. Unless there are a lot of people running around working off the books in cash.. hence no need to ID to cash a paycheck... then I do not see why this is an issue.

This law was just enacted in Tennessee. My only concern is you have to go to a DMV site to get your free ID. There are 96 counties in Tennessee and only 48 DMV stations. This may cause people hardship who have to travel to another county. But this can be remedied easily since each county has a government and they should be able to issue ID's as well.

 

[Moonbeam]

I like showing my ID card (drivers license) when I vote and see the person look my name up and highlight it to show I have voted. No way fraud can then take place, at least at that point.

And I just do not understand how anyone could not have some form of picture ID today.

Your personal lack of understanding and limited imagination are of no importance.

 

[monovillage]

Another hilarious example of how easy it is to game the voting system. Now it's time for the usual suspects to state how it's not been proven or it doesn't matter or how the Republicans are evil monsters because they want a more secure system.

 

[Lemon law]

Gotta love this argument that only dimocrats commit voter fraud especially since its was Republican Tamminy hall that pioneered the process.

Then there is the fact that many people who don't have a driver's license like my elderly mother now simply lack a picture ID. And when the idea comes up that everyone should carry a US citizenship card, the GOP goes hyperspastic in denouncing the idea as communistic. Not to mention, like any other possession, such a card can become lost or stolen.

In American politics, all parties are endless inventive in finding new ways of rigging the vote. Tactics like Gerrymandering, poll taxes, ethnic profiling, butterfly ballots, and now electronic voting machines, add rich new ways to be inventive.

 

[Moonbeam]

Also, the ones without ID's are usually eligible for voting via absentee ballot... elderly, physically disabled, etc. Unless there are a lot of people running around working off the books in cash.. hence no need to ID to cash a paycheck... then I do not see why this is an issue.

This law was just enacted in Tennessee. My only concern is you have to go to a DMV site to get your free ID. There are 96 counties in Tennessee and only 48 DMV stations. This may cause people hardship who have to travel to another county. But this can be remedied easily since each county has a government and they should be able to issue ID's as well.

Do you need ID to get an ID? If you do then just use that to vote. If you don't then the ID is useless anyway.

 

[kage69]

Another hilarious example of how easy it is to game the voting system. Now it's time for the usual suspects to state how it's not been proven or it doesn't matter or how the Republicans are evil monsters because they want a more secure system.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/04/us-indiana-white-idUSTRE8130FS20120204


You were saying?

Or is that not "noteworthy" enough?

 

[Moonbeam]

Voter suppression is very important. If you let poor folk vote in great numbers they will vote for things that transfer wealth from the top to the bottom. This is selfish and destructive. So the well off have to protect themselves and limit as much as can be gotten away with, the vote of the lower class. People who have money should vote in the interests of themselves because they are better people and actually need even more than they already have. This is obvious that you want the best folks to make the rules. You can't let selfish folk vote themselves benefits and that's exactly what the poor will do.

And as everybody knows, there are more poor than well off, just as there are more B C D and F students than A students. So some way has to be found to keep society functioning. Voter suppression is one viable and excellent way. And it is perfectly able to be justified because worse than the poor voting is the dead poor voting too. And don't forget, there's lots of minorities among the poor and they are even worse.

 

[theeedude]

Committing voter fraud using Attorney General's identity? Dumb move.

 

[JockoJohnson]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/04/us-indiana-white-idUSTRE8130FS20120204


You were saying?

Or is that not "noteworthy" enough?

That's good that he got caught. I don't think anyone in this thread said Republicans don't commit voter fraud. But Republicans seem to be the only ones trying to prevent it with voter ID laws. Of course, this will disenfranchise those that don't know how to get to a DMV or similar gov't place that will issue one to them....most likely for free.

Anyone who commits voter fraud should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[xBiffx]

Committing voter fraud using Attorney General's identity? Dumb move.

Thanks for fulfilling my expectations. I knew it would take 10 posts or less.

 

[theeedude]

Thanks for fulfilling my expectations. I knew it would take 10 posts or less.

The only voter fraud in this article is from a right wing reporter. You can't break the law just to demonstrate you can get away with it.

 

[xBiffx]

The only voter fraud in this article is from a right wing reporter. You can't break the law just to demonstrate you can get away with it.

I have no doubt. But is that the best you can do? Is that really the only tidbit of information you can take from this story? (BTW, both rhetorical questions.)

 

[HomerJS]

Another hilarious example of how easy it is to game the voting system. Now it's time for the usual suspects to state how it's not been proven or it doesn't matter or how the Republicans are evil monsters because they want a more secure system.

Republicans can't even run their own primaries properly so they are the last ones that should be bitching about voter fraud. Far more fraud is comitted by misshandling of ballots then dead people voting.

 

[theeedude]

I have no doubt. But is that the best you can do? Is that really the only tidbit of information you can take from this story? (BTW, both rhetorical questions.)

He still has no proof that voter fraud is a problem that is bigger than people being denied their right to vote if some partisan official claims their ID is not authentic or it's not them, or whatever. All he has proof of is him attempting to engage in voter fraud.

 

[JockoJohnson]

The only voter fraud in this article is from a right wing reporter. You can't break the law just to demonstrate you can get away with it.

And if he actually cast a vote in Eric Holder's name, he should be prosecuted. Just like in the other thread, a person may be demonstrating how current laws are bad but doesn't mean that you can break them and get away with it.

 

[xBiffx]

Republicans can't even run their own primaries properly so they are the last ones that should be bitching about voter fraud. Far more fraud is comitted by misshandling of ballots then dead people voting.

Well we know one type of "misshandling" (was that a pejorative?) that can be easily remedied with an ID. But you don't want to talk about that. You would rather divert by labeling Republicans hypocrites than admit anything about the validity of requiring an ID to vote.

 

[woolfe9999]

I have no doubt. But is that the best you can do? Is that really the only tidbit of information you can take from this story? (BTW, both rhetorical questions.)

What "tidbits" would you like us to receive? That voter fraud on an individual level is possible in this system? Of course it is. It isn't, however, common enough in our system to ever sway the outcome of an election. In order to sway an election, you'd have to commit fraud in an organized fashion and on a mass level, and then you'd likely be caught. For the small scale fraud that these ID laws are ostensibly meant to stop, there is little incentive because the cost-benefit of breaking the law to produce a phony vote or three isn't there. Sure, a few people here and there will still be foolish enough to risk getting caught and do it anyway, and some will get away with it. But it isn't going to make a difference.

Voter fraud is only a serious issue when the government itself - the authority charged with enforcing election laws - is corrupt. For example, with Karzai in Afghanistan or Ahmadinejad in Iran, or, some would say, Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris in Florida. So long as the authorities who are counting the votes and enforcing the laws are not corrupt, then fraud is not going to make a difference because there is never going to be all that much of it.

 

[xBiffx]

He still has no proof that voter fraud is a problem that is bigger than people being denied their right to vote if some partisan official claims their ID is not authentic or it's not them, or whatever. All he has proof of is him attempting to engage in voter fraud.

Because walking in and getting the ballot of the AG isn't proof that voter fraud is super easy to commit? As I said in the OP, its not like he requested the ballot of John Smith, no, he got the ballot of Eric fucking Holder.

 

[theeedude]

And if he actually cast a vote in Eric Holder's name, he should be prosecuted. Just like in the other thread, a person may be demonstrating how current laws are bad but doesn't mean that you can break them and get away with it.

Depends what the statute says. If it says that giving false identity to an election worker is a crime, then he should be prosecuted.

 

[kage69]

That's good that he got caught. I don't think anyone in this thread said Republicans don't commit voter fraud. But Republicans seem to be the only ones trying to prevent it with voter ID laws. Of course, this will disenfranchise those that don't know how to get to a DMV or similar gov't place that will issue one to them....most likely for free.

Anyone who commits voter fraud should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I provided that link as an example of mono's claim of Rs wanting a more secure system.

I'm with you on the prosecuting, throw the friggin book at them, that's always been my position. I don't really have an issue with presenting ID to vote either - what I do have an issue with is talk radio idiots pretending that their talking points and stereotypes fully represent the threat of voters being disenfranchised.
To me it resembles the issue of illegal immigrants, only the GOP faithful are reversing the appropriate actions.

Arresting and deporting token handfuls of illegals will not solve the problem, you have to address the cause of them coming here for work, i.e, you need to hold corporations accountable for their use of illegal labor. Conservatives get this approach, but many conveniently play stupid when it comes to voting. Never mind the malfeasance and fraud of those in government involved with systemic and organized abuses, it's the voters themselves we need to watch!


Hilarious indeed.

 

[theeedude]

Because walking in and getting the ballot of the AG isn't proof that voter fraud is super easy to commit? As I said in the OP, its not like he requested the ballot of John Smith, no, he got the ballot of Eric fucking Holder.

Taking candy from a baby is super easy to commit. Does it mean that candy snatching is a widespread problem?

 

[xBiffx]

It isn't, however, common enough in our system to ever sway the outcome of an election.

Have any proof of that other than you don't think its possible?

In order to sway an election, you'd have to commit fraud in an organized fashion and on a mass level, and then you'd likely be caught.

One word, ACORN. Sure, they got caught, but only because some people, like the person in the article, recognized the problem and acted. But it does prove that this can become rather large scale .

 

[HomerJS]

Well we know one type of "misshandling" (was that a pejorative?) that can be easily remedied with an ID. But you don't want to talk about that. You would rather divert by labeling Republicans hypocrites than admit anything about the validity of requiring an ID to vote.

Let me ask you how is the ID of the person verified of an absentee ballot? How do you know who filled it out?

BTW - Bush admin had a crackdown on voter fruad 2000-2007. Guess how many fraud convictions in almost 300 million votes? 86. What an epidemic!!!