I love how the lefties are hard at work obfuscating the subject at hand. We're not discussing Bush, or Clinton, or any other figure here. We're talking about Nancy Pelosi.
I love how the lefties are hard at work obfuscating the subject at hand. We're not discussing Bush, or Clinton, or any other figure here. We're talking about Nancy Pelosi.
Oh give me a break. First of all... congressmen go talk to the leaders of other countries all the time. ALL THE TIME. Yeah, even ones we aren't friendly with. As mentioned before... there were 3 other congressmen who had been hanging out in Syria just before her, and yet they don't appear to have overstepped their boundries? The executive branch doesn't get to tell the Legislature what countries they can visit and when. We're not a monarchy quite yet.
She in no way attempted to articulate policy, and she in no way attempted to make or amend any treaty (the actual territory of the executive branch according to the constitution). So the whole "she overstepped her bounds and should be stripped of her speakership" thing (by who I wonder?) is stupid. That and why the big deal about the head scarf? It's a cultural thing in Syria. Do people go insane when Bush (or Clinton, or whoever) goes to someplace and you see them wearing some element of that nation's traditional clothing? Nope. Damn her for trying to reach out a hand of cultural mediation!! Damn her!!!
That does not mean that there are no negative aspects to her trip. It certainly is a negative if our government appears divided in its approach to a country, I agree. In general it is always best to keep your arguments internal and present a unified face to the rest of the world. I don't know what the other options are right now though. The Bush approach of sticking our fingers in our ears and going "la la la I can't hear you" for the last 6 years is so mind bogglingly stupid that it not only is ineffective, but leaves absolutely no room to maneuver for any party involved. That is yet another catastrophic mistake for Bush, and the fact that merely speaking to a country on Bush's "no talk" list is such a big deal shows you why this policy is so bad.
As long as she is not attempting to set foreign policy for the US (and no, speaking to another country is not a policy.. sorry) what she is doing is within her rights, and it might even help some. I agree that in general sending a mixed message is bad, but I just don't know what other options there are considering the administration's current policy.
Oh, and linking anything from Glenn Beck is probably a bad idea. He was the one that asked the muslim congressman to prove to him he wasn't in league with our enemies. That and another clue to when you should completely ignore something that someone has to say is when they give attributes of cartoon supervillains to countries with which we disagree. Like say... "Syria has no interest in negotiating with the United States". I remember the same things being floated around about Iran, and how War Was Imminent with Britain, etc... etc. The sooner you realize that our enemies are not irrational evil people like the guys who tied the girl to the train tracks in those old Westerns, the sooner you will come to understand how the world works.
No, we are talking about the relative value of what she is doing and whether or not it harms this country. As such, you use points of reference to gauge the relative worth (or harm) of an action, and also whether or not people of similar calibre are over-stepping boundaries.
Just as in a court case, you can bring in similar actions by similar people to refute a point made by the defense (or prosecution), these points can highlight the actions of others in relation to your client (or target), and whether or not those actions prove or disprove the merit (or harm) of the actions of the client (or target).
Thus, comparing whether or not Pelosi overstepped her bounds as a Congresswoman should be gauged upon whether or not other people have overstepped theirs and in what role they have done so. While not a justification, it provides a reference point.
Does Congress have a specified role written in the Constitution that prevents them from visiting other countries? No.
Does if they do so, are they operating outside the mandate given to them by the Constitution? No.
Does it go against the policy of the government to visit foreign governments that might be counter-policy? Yes.
Is there somehwere in the Constitution that forbids this? No.
Unless there is a case of treason and Pelosi was specifically found to be aiding a direct enemy of the state, then she was doing nothing wrong. This is beyond the rhetoric put out by our government, or the actions taken by those on behalf of seria in Hamas/Hizbullah.
As a counterpoint, Bush DOES operate out of the mandate of his position given to him by the Constitution. However, several people on here refuse to acknowledge that fact, despite it being plainly evident, provided you can read and think. This is somewhat of a dubious projection at best, given the nature of many of the posters.
Thus, you have to consider the merit of one poster saying that she "overstepped", when in fact, that person or others like him can't even judge what overstepping means if they completely ignore an actual case of overstepping as defined by a document that we hold sacred, and not just a policy set by an administration.
What you are essentially saying is that Pelosi didn't commit murder, but is guilty of murder in your mind. However, a person who did commit murder isn't guilty because, in your mind, the law is wrong or doesn't exist, despite clear evidence to the contrary. Not only does this call into question your sanity, but also your reasoning ability and lastly, your ability to call anybody a murderer or judge the merit of their actions.
What about Nancy Pelosi? Is she the first Congress women to visit foreign dignitary? Is she the first Congress women to have views different from the current Admin? Is she not allowed to say things according to her view when she visit foreign dignitary? I mean the last time I check, she is from a democratic country, not China.
And how exactly did her action harmed US, or US foreign relationship, or people in that region? Other than you guys don't like what she said or did?
Nancy Pelosi is merely doing what Condi Rice and the Bush administration should be doing, talking with countries in the middle east to try and stop the fighting.
The message of the last election is that the american people want the war over, and the Bush admin response has been to try and extend the war. Nancy Pelosi took some initiative and did the right thing.
Oh, and Nancy Pelosi has far more foreign policy experience than Bush had before he was selected president. Maybe you conservatives can list all of the great foreign policy objectives the Bush admin has achieved?
The message of the last election is that the american people want the war over, and the Bush admin response has been to try and extend the war. Nancy Pelosi took some initiative and did the right thing.
Oh, and Nancy Pelosi has far more foreign policy experience than Bush had before he was selected president. Maybe you conservatives can list all of the great foreign policy objectives the Bush admin has achieved?
haha. You guys are laughable./ I laugh at you. If anything, Bush should be stripped of his presidency.
then they ought to try it. So far all they've done is dig a deeper hole for us.
She's doing a great job! I wish Bush would try to be a statesman, but that's obviously wishing too much. from a frat boy coke head clown.
No. She's doing what our idiot of a president should have been doing for the last several years. You can't just kill everyone you disagree with.
Too f'ing bad. As soon as the Dems take the presidency (and the Senate more definitively), you're going to be even more unhappy and the American people as a whole will be safer.
OrByte
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2000
- 9,303
- 144
- 106
LOL so true!!
Its so funny that all the righties get their panties in a twist because the rookie house speaker is showing the President and his croonies how to actually conduct DIPLOMACY instead of WORTHLESS WARS...rofl...loL!! too funny!!!
rofl....hahahaaaaaa...way too funny.........rofl
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 307
- 126
Only a bleeding diehard bushie would think what she did over in the middle east is something for which to can her.
If the executive office would get off their cans and politic in the world it would help. But they'd rather throw daggers and bombs at the rest of the world. Its a wonder we have any foreign policy freinds left. Well, there will always be the beggars, they'll always like us as long as we feed them money. But what nations have we made any headway with whatsoever since the current administration came into office? Even our post-9/11 supporters are abandoning them.
If the executive office would get off their cans and politic in the world it would help. But they'd rather throw daggers and bombs at the rest of the world. Its a wonder we have any foreign policy freinds left. Well, there will always be the beggars, they'll always like us as long as we feed them money. But what nations have we made any headway with whatsoever since the current administration came into office? Even our post-9/11 supporters are abandoning them.
Ya think? :shocked:
Guess it's all right for Republican members of Congress to go, but not Pelosi. :roll:
It's difficult for admin mouthpieces to express outrage while their heads are so firmly clamped between their gluteal cheeks.WHERES THE OUTRAGE???
Perhaps it is because the Republican lawmakers aren't dancing around in muslim scarves and making fools of themselves in front of the cameras?
I disagree with the travel of the entire lot there, Republicans included. Syria is a terrorist sponsor and certainly not a country in which diplomacy stands any chance of success.
I disagree with the travel of the entire lot there, Republicans included. Syria is a terrorist sponsor and certainly not a country in which diplomacy stands any chance of success.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Like anything the right has done or said has turned out to be true in international relations, kinda wondering why the world and the majority of this country shouldn't just lol at you all when you think you have any credibility left or that anyone cares what straw you are grasping at now.
Conservatives = fail
Time to once again have the (somewhat more) adults come in and clean up your mess, hopefully the US public learned their lessons for awhile about voting in such blind fools.
Edit: But I am sure the greedy capitalist types raised in our consumerist culture will sell out their best interests for a "tax break" again once the snake oil salesmen have laid low for awhile.
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
I guess photo ops now qualify as effective foreign policy engagements.
True, the message from the American people was that they want the war in Iraq to end...but end in a manner that also does not destabilize the entire region...perhaps you should post when the Democrats pass legislation or present a plan that defines a viable strategy for Iraq. I have heard a lot of sabre rattling...haven't seen much in the form of conviction or results.
Let's see the Democrats pass a funding bill or a BINDING resolution that calls for troop withdrawal by a certain date...without any pork attached...and force Bush to play his hand.
Nancy Pelosi is the worse Speaker of the House ever, but it doesn't surprise me for she's a typical California Liberal Nut Job (Another liberal Nut job from California is U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein) that is hell bent on ripping the United States apart. I'm starting to believe there are no good politicians on either side (Republican or Democrat), which means the United States is doomed unless a good decent politician emerges.
, which means the United States is doomed unless a good decent politician emerges.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Welcome to 2003, you were already warned then it was going to happen, only way they are going to stabilize is with the occupation over.
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