Hey Nancy.........WTF are you doing???

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: EXman
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

I can see both sides but who authorized her? Herself? Once again Queen Bee syndrome.

Your original post after mine goes off topic about Bush and his sorry ass policies. That is kind of the liberal MO. Attack Bush Attack Bush... Bush's Fault Bush's Fault... and well I'm sure you can do better than the average Lib. ;)

Your quote gives Nancy the authority to meet foreign officials as an elected official of the USA. Elected or appointed official of the government, get it now? Neat, HUH! While a private citizen like you will have the brick dropped on 'em.
 
Jan 9, 2007
180
0
71
lol

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts had we had meetings with Pol Pot back in the day hahaha
______________________

Uh, do you think it's worse than Bush's ties to the Bin Laden family? I sure don't think you can compare Pelosi's visit to a meeting with Pol Pot - certainly not in the category of some of the other ties the Bush Family has . Arbusto, BCCI, Prescott Bush's involvement with the Nazi party? How all of *that* got covered up is beyond belief, and I think it is going to start coming out, as well. Those aren't just even involvement in a government capacity - those are business and personal ties, as well.

Of course, I'm sure the revisionists version of that history will be interesting to hear.. LOL
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I don't follow how Pelosi's trip reinforced Bush43 Regime stupidity. The height of stupidity was originally voting for him in 2000. We managed to surpass that by re-electing him (sorta). Bush has proven that bad policies can be made worse if you leave the same imbecile at the helm.

I'm not defending the San Francisco Treat but you are misreading the Logan Act if you believe it actually applies to her trip. The fact that you think her trip is misguided and/or her execution was incompetent has no bearing on its relationship to the Logan Act. It simply does NOT apply to what she did.

It's irrelevant that you are not a neocon or Bush sycophant. For the record, I don't believe I attacked you. My intent was merely to highlight the disconnect between characterizing Pelosi's trip as (weak, incompetent, phony, and silly) when it was largely directed at CORRECTING 6 years of weak, incoherent, phony, silly, and incompetent policies by Bush43. Granted, I think the preceding 8 years of policy leave MUCH to be desired.

We can even agree to disagree as to whether Pelosi's trip violated the Logan Act. Even if I agreed with such a determination, it's irrelevant b/c no court (except a Bush tribunal and we know that's more marsupial than the kangaroo itself) would sustain the notion that Logan supercedes the ability of legislators (even less so the Speaker) to gather information that will directly affect how they will carry out their Constitutional duties.

Let me propose a question: Do you believe Pelosi went to Iran BECAUSE of Bush? Had a different prez been int he chair would she have gone? Or are you so filled with hatred you cant see her actions APART from Bush are treasonous? The ACTION ITSELF.

Iran?

:confused:

P.S. I thought you people had finally stopped screaming "Treason" at every move the Dems made.
I guess not...squeal on, squeal on.

:roll:
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
she has no business going over there, none, nada... she is the speaker of the house she is not a diplomat of foreign relation. she totally over stepped her bounds and stamped on the office of the president and i dont care who is in office. she was wrong and should be thrown out period.

The other 4 Republicans who went there should be thrown out as well?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=a3U.hoMLHAi0&refer=home

Does the Bush administration have an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder on Pelosi?
Why are they not criticizing the Republicans who went there as well?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I don't follow how Pelosi's trip reinforced Bush43 Regime stupidity. The height of stupidity was originally voting for him in 2000. We managed to surpass that by re-electing him (sorta). Bush has proven that bad policies can be made worse if you leave the same imbecile at the helm.

I'm not defending the San Francisco Treat but you are misreading the Logan Act if you believe it actually applies to her trip. The fact that you think her trip is misguided and/or her execution was incompetent has no bearing on its relationship to the Logan Act. It simply does NOT apply to what she did.

It's irrelevant that you are not a neocon or Bush sycophant. For the record, I don't believe I attacked you. My intent was merely to highlight the disconnect between characterizing Pelosi's trip as (weak, incompetent, phony, and silly) when it was largely directed at CORRECTING 6 years of weak, incoherent, phony, silly, and incompetent policies by Bush43. Granted, I think the preceding 8 years of policy leave MUCH to be desired.

We can even agree to disagree as to whether Pelosi's trip violated the Logan Act. Even if I agreed with such a determination, it's irrelevant b/c no court (except a Bush tribunal and we know that's more marsupial than the kangaroo itself) would sustain the notion that Logan supercedes the ability of legislators (even less so the Speaker) to gather information that will directly affect how they will carry out their Constitutional duties.

Let me propose a question: Do you believe Pelosi went to Iran BECAUSE of Bush? Had a different prez been int he chair would she have gone? Or are you so filled with hatred you cant see her actions APART from Bush are treasonous? The ACTION ITSELF.

Iran?

:confused:

P.S. I thought you people had finally stopped screaming "Treason" at every move the Dems made.
I guess not...squeal on, squeal on.

:roll:

ops thats what I get for drugging up and lurking haha

Can I buy a who is syria for $1000?

edit: when you say "you people" do you mean those of us who believe it is treason? Im not understanding..

And no. Those of us conservative Dems arent going to quit squealing treason until the rest of you quit squealing treason regarding a war the current president you said falsly started. Its my dumbass party member Clinton who started it. Please dont make me post that long ass proof in this thread also...
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I don't follow how Pelosi's trip reinforced Bush43 Regime stupidity. The height of stupidity was originally voting for him in 2000. We managed to surpass that by re-electing him (sorta). Bush has proven that bad policies can be made worse if you leave the same imbecile at the helm.

I'm not defending the San Francisco Treat but you are misreading the Logan Act if you believe it actually applies to her trip. The fact that you think her trip is misguided and/or her execution was incompetent has no bearing on its relationship to the Logan Act. It simply does NOT apply to what she did.

It's irrelevant that you are not a neocon or Bush sycophant. For the record, I don't believe I attacked you. My intent was merely to highlight the disconnect between characterizing Pelosi's trip as (weak, incompetent, phony, and silly) when it was largely directed at CORRECTING 6 years of weak, incoherent, phony, silly, and incompetent policies by Bush43. Granted, I think the preceding 8 years of policy leave MUCH to be desired.

We can even agree to disagree as to whether Pelosi's trip violated the Logan Act. Even if I agreed with such a determination, it's irrelevant b/c no court (except a Bush tribunal and we know that's more marsupial than the kangaroo itself) would sustain the notion that Logan supercedes the ability of legislators (even less so the Speaker) to gather information that will directly affect how they will carry out their Constitutional duties.

Let me propose a question: Do you believe Pelosi went to Iran BECAUSE of Bush? Had a different prez been int he chair would she have gone? Or are you so filled with hatred you cant see her actions APART from Bush are treasonous? The ACTION ITSELF.

Iran?

:confused:

P.S. I thought you people had finally stopped screaming "Treason" at every move the Dems made.
I guess not...squeal on, squeal on.

:roll:

ops thats what I get for drugging up and lurking haha

Can I buy a who is syria for $1000?

edit: when you say "you people" do you mean those of us who believe it is treason? Im not understanding..

And no. Those of us conservative Dems arent going to quit squealing treason until the rest of you quit squealing treason regarding a war the current president you said falsly started. Its my dumbass party member Clinton who started it. Please dont make me post that long ass proof in this thread also...
Squealing is an apt description

 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
Unfortunately this administraton do not see any hypocrisy between screaming about Nancy Pelosi going to Syria, and ANY Republican going to ANY country in ANY capacity.

That's because they simply assume that everyone agrees with their conspiracist paranoia: Bushco. are by nature patriotic and good for America, and Democrats are by nature treasonous and will serve to undermine the US of A.

So they see no contradiction. If Republican Congressmen go to Syria, they'll obviously put on cowboy hats, shove Assad down in his chair and slap him around while they sing Yankee Doodle Dandy, like Real Men would. If Nancy Pelosi goes to Syria, she's obviously going to bow down and promise to make California the first American State of the New Jihad Caliphate. That's how they see the world.

These "new" conservitive Republican politicians are the same people who reject any objective measurements on who is good or bad for U.S. and world security, since they would fail any such test.

The neocons, whose ranks include both officials and armchair intellectuals with considerable influence in the United States, Israel and in Lebanon, insist that Pelosi's move sent all the wrong messages to the region's "terrorists" and "terrorist enablers." A better approach, they argue, would be to continue to try to pressure and ignore states like Syria and Iran until they eventually collapse into submission.

But their prescription constitutes a willful denial of certain regional realities.

Pelosi repeated the usual demands of the Bush administration. She called upon Syria to tighten security on the borders with Iraq and exert more efforts to prevent the infiltration of foreign fighters whom she described as "killing American soldiers"

She asked the Syrian government to halt arms shipments to Hezbollah and Hamas and facilitate the establishment of the international tribunal, which is supposed to investigate the assassination of former Lebanese prime mister Rafik Hariri.

More interestingly, she asked Syria to help release the two captured Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah, the incident that triggered the last summer's war in Lebanon.

In other words, Pelosi didn't make her own foreign policy, and took great pains to support the Administration's positions.

We shold also remember then speaker of the house Newt Gingrich trip to China in 1997. Back then, the media treated Gingrich like he was the American Prime Minister, and his right-wing supporters had no problem with the House Speaker travelling and expressing his own foreign policy views which deviated from the Clinton administration's.

They couldn't have been more pleased that Gingrich did what, in their minds, the Clinton administration was failing to do - standing up to the Chinese. Gingrich, as House Speaker, was heroic for going on his own and doing that.

And so, you see, there is a fundamental psychic necessity for rightwingers to take every dark impulse they feel, and attibute it to their perceived enemies. This logic absolutely, rigidly prevents any possible awareness of when they are doing something that they accuse others of doing.

The media establishment is going along with yet another White House charade, we shouldn't lose track of how the Pelosi story so perfectly dovetails with the preeminent Rovian myth: Democrats just aren't tough enough to deal with foreign policy.

My goodness, how can a woman hope to negotiate with bloodthirsty evildoers, wrapped in a headscarf no less?

What's interesting, and perhaps worthy of more study, is why the MSM is so enraptured with this particular line of testosterone-laden baloney. Clearly the love affair dates back to the Gingrich era:

Clinton would have been made to look a fool if he took a strong stance against Gingrich's "tough talk" with China.

And yet the crux of our American media is beholden to that group, takes its cues from it, and treats it like it defines the mainstream. Hence, Nancy Pelosi's belief in engaging the Syrians in dialogue - a belief endorsed by, among others: (a) the uber-establishment Baker-Hamilton Commission, (b) the Israeli government, and (c) the vast majority of American people.








 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Let me help out the 5 year-olds with precocious typing skills:

1) Pelosi's actions (visiting foreign leaders regardless of her message) are generally consistent with her Constitutional duties as Speaker of the House.
The clear intent of this provision [Logan Act] is to prohibit unauthorized persons from intervening in disputes between the United States and foreign governments. Nothing in section 953 [Logan Act], however, would appear to restrict members of the Congress from engaging in discussions with foreign officials in pursuance of their legislative duties under the Constitution.

2) The Logan Act does not supercede #1. Even if it did . . . the Logan Act has no relationship whatsoever to treason.
directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
My guess is that most statutes covering treason wouldn't prescribe a penalty as minimal as a fine or a max of 3yrs and a fine.

3) Logan Act is garbage.
The Southern District of New York in Waldron v. British Petroleum Co., 231 F. Supp. 72 (S.D.N.Y. 1964), mentioned in passing that the Act was likely unconstitutional due to the vagueness of the terms "defeat" and "measures," but did not rule on the question.
---
The House memo goes on to state that the Logan Act "has never been the basis of a prosecution, and this Committee has publicly questioned its constitutionality. House Comm. on Standards of Official Conduct, Manual of Offenses and Procedures, Korean Influence Investigation, 95th Cong., 1st Sess. 18-19 (Comm. Print 1977). Members should be aware, however, that the law remains on the books."

My guess is that Jesse Jackson and Jimmy Carter probably have a baker's dozen of violations of the Logan Act . . . EACH! It's hard to believe Ronald Reagan's DOJ couldn't pull together an indictment. They chose not to b/c it would be equivalent to 'self-stimulation' with fly paper.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Unfortunately this administraton do not see any hypocrisy between screaming about Nancy Pelosi going to Syria, and ANY Republican going to ANY country in ANY capacity.

That's because they simply assume that everyone agrees with their conspiracist paranoia: Bushco. are by nature patriotic and good for America, and Democrats are by nature treasonous and will serve to undermine the US of A.

So they see no contradiction. If Republican Congressmen go to Syria, they'll obviously put on cowboy hats, shove Assad down in his chair and slap him around while they sing Yankee Doodle Dandy, like Real Men would. If Nancy Pelosi goes to Syria, she's obviously going to bow down and promise to make California the first American State of the New Jihad Caliphate. That's how they see the world.

These "new" conservitive Republican politicians are the same people who reject any objective measurements on who is good or bad for U.S. and world security, since they would fail any such test.

The neocons, whose ranks include both officials and armchair intellectuals with considerable influence in the United States, Israel and in Lebanon, insist that Pelosi's move sent all the wrong messages to the region's "terrorists" and "terrorist enablers." A better approach, they argue, would be to continue to try to pressure and ignore states like Syria and Iran until they eventually collapse into submission.

But their prescription constitutes a willful denial of certain regional realities.

Pelosi repeated the usual demands of the Bush administration. She called upon Syria to tighten security on the borders with Iraq and exert more efforts to prevent the infiltration of foreign fighters whom she described as "killing American soldiers"

She asked the Syrian government to halt arms shipments to Hezbollah and Hamas and facilitate the establishment of the international tribunal, which is supposed to investigate the assassination of former Lebanese prime mister Rafik Hariri.

More interestingly, she asked Syria to help release the two captured Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah, the incident that triggered the last summer's war in Lebanon.

In other words, Pelosi didn't make her own foreign policy, and took great pains to support the Administration's positions.

We shold also remember then speaker of the house Newt Gingrich trip to China in 1997. Back then, the media treated Gingrich like he was the American Prime Minister, and his right-wing supporters had no problem with the House Speaker travelling and expressing his own foreign policy views which deviated from the Clinton administration's.

They couldn't have been more pleased that Gingrich did what, in their minds, the Clinton administration was failing to do - standing up to the Chinese. Gingrich, as House Speaker, was heroic for going on his own and doing that.

And so, you see, there is a fundamental psychic necessity for rightwingers to take every dark impulse they feel, and attibute it to their perceived enemies. This logic absolutely, rigidly prevents any possible awareness of when they are doing something that they accuse others of doing.

The media establishment is going along with yet another White House charade, we shouldn't lose track of how the Pelosi story so perfectly dovetails with the preeminent Rovian myth: Democrats just aren't tough enough to deal with foreign policy.

My goodness, how can a woman hope to negotiate with bloodthirsty evildoers, wrapped in a headscarf no less?

What's interesting, and perhaps worthy of more study, is why the MSM is so enraptured with this particular line of testosterone-laden baloney. Clearly the love affair dates back to the Gingrich era:

Clinton would have been made to look a fool if he took a strong stance against Gingrich's "tough talk" with China.

And yet the crux of our American media is beholden to that group, takes its cues from it, and treats it like it defines the mainstream. Hence, Nancy Pelosi's belief in engaging the Syrians in dialogue - a belief endorsed by, among others: (a) the uber-establishment Baker-Hamilton Commission, (b) the Israeli government, and (c) the vast majority of American people.

I think you are the reason why lefties get labeled as snobby-educated-elitist.

jerk :p
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
4,403
3,820
136
Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Unfortunately this administraton do not see any hypocrisy between screaming about Nancy Pelosi going to Syria, and ANY Republican going to ANY country in ANY capacity.

Good catch...

John McCain and his armoured convoy.

Did Nancy have this type of protection???
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,999
307
126
Its garbage like the Logan Act that should allow ANY citizen to challenge it regardless if it affects them or not. Any law in the book ought to be challengeable by ANY citizen of our country, not just when the people affected by it have the money to appeal. We'd clear up the law books of petty legislation like that real fast.