Hey atheists, if God doesn't exist... (update: lots of atheists getting pwnt itt)

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Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
12,392
1,058
126
Who bothers trying to convince teh believers of gawd's non-existance? Can you even prove a negative?

Nah...it's just more fun to make fun of the "sky-fairy believers."

Well right. You can't prove God's existence by failing to prove he doesn't exist. You also can't prove God exists or does not exist by a scientific method. There is no measurable evidence to be gathered.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,677
6,250
126
Since there are a bunch of people making fun of those of us who do believe in God in this thread, I have a serious question to ask.

Since God does not exist in your world view, then does convincing others of your point of view really have any long term meaning?

Yes.
 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
12,392
1,058
126
who's making fun of god here? All I see is a bunch of air-tight theological logic attacking atheists and their historically flawed arguments.

:confused:

Yeah, sorry, this is more of a parody thread. Still, many of the posters in here are atheists and are generally derogatory towards the folks here who do believe in a God.

Based on science or scientific method I would have to concede there is no way to know if God does or does not exist. I do fail to see how being a Christian, and thus believing in God, makes me intellectually inferior or makes any difference in the world view of an atheist.

At the risk of sounding very selfish, if there is no afterlife, does anything we do here really matter in the long-term for anyone? I don't see how it can.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,677
6,250
126
Yeah, sorry, this is more of a parody thread. Still, many of the posters in here are atheists and are generally derogatory towards the folks here who do believe in a God.

Based on science or scientific method I would have to concede there is no way to know if God does or does not exist. I do fail to see how being a Christian, and thus believing in God, makes me intellectually inferior or makes any difference in the world view of an atheist.

At the risk of sounding very selfish, if there is no afterlife, does anything we do here really matter in the long-term for anyone? I don't see how it can.

Yes, it does matter.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
Since there are a bunch of people making fun of those of us who do believe in God in this thread, I have a serious question to ask.

Since God does not exist in your world view, then does convincing others of your point of view really have any long term meaning? I mean, in your world view I assume death of the body means no more existence, and most probably the human race will wipe themselves out, get hit by a meteor, sucked into a black hole, etc. eventually, and life will eventually have been a pointless endeavor in a meaningless universe with no one (at least from humanity's perspective) the wiser for it all. Even if humanity does expand out into the universe, the individual still has to die and really nothing is ever personally gained. In either case, getting rid of all religions and convincing everyone God does not exist seems like a waste of very precious time and resources, assuming I truly believe God does not exist. What's your motivation to convince others of God's non-existence? I'm truly curious.

If you had a neighbor who believed in Zeus, went to PTO meetings and tried to get his religious beliefs taught in schools, ran for public office with the intent of creating legislation based on his religious beliefs wouldn't you oppose that? Would one of your methods of attack against his zealotry be to argue against his beliefs? Would you point out that there is no credible evidence to support the existence of Zeus?

Let's even say he makes no political aspirations in regards to his beliefs. However, your neighbor does believe it is his duty to "save" everyone who does not believe in Zeus. He engages you and everyone else in conversation about his beliefs whenever he can. He attempts to convert everyone he can into what you know is a fairy tale. Would you warn other people about his attempts to covert them? Would you discuss how you feel his beliefs are unfounded and that there isn't any Zeus?

As for the meaning of life, why do you need an outside force to give your life meaning? Are you incapable of providing meaning for yourself? Is it possible that believing in something untrue could degrade the experience of life? After all, if this life is all we have, shouldn't we be VERY careful what we believe in while we're here? If no one will ever be the wiser that we existed, shouldn't we do everything possible to ensure this experience we call "life" is as great as possible?
 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
12,392
1,058
126
If you had a neighbor who believed in Zeus, went to PTO meetings and tried to get his religious beliefs taught in schools, ran for public office with the intent of creating legislation based on his religious beliefs wouldn't you oppose that? Would one of your methods of attack against his zealotry be to argue against his beliefs? Would you point out that there is no credible evidence to support the existence of Zeus?

Let's even say he makes no political aspirations in regards to his beliefs. However, your neighbor does believe it is his duty to "save" everyone who does not believe in Zeus. He engages you and everyone else in conversation about his beliefs whenever he can. He attempts to convert everyone he can into what you know is a fairy tale. Would you warn other people about his attempts to covert them? Would you discuss how you feel his beliefs are unfounded and that there isn't any Zeus?

As for the meaning of life, why do you need an outside force to give your life meaning? Are you incapable of providing meaning for yourself? Is it possible that believing in something untrue could degrade the experience of life? After all, if this life is all we have, shouldn't we be VERY careful what we believe in while we're here? If no one will ever be the wiser that we existed, shouldn't we do everything possible to ensure this experience we call "life" is as great as possible?

I guess my counter argument would be that in (random number here) 200 years from now everyone on the face of this planet will be dead and gone. This is repeated to infinity. What has been accomplished?

Another example. Say there is a society where half live in a utopia and the other half are slaves who are abused in every way throughout their lives. When both die their experience or non-existence is equal. Ultimately everything is equalized out and the whole exercise is completely meaningless for both individuals as they're right back where they started...not existing.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,677
6,250
126
Please explain, I'm genuinely curious. I would assume death of the individual or eventually humanity as a whole would render the accomplishments of humanity as a whole completely meaningless.

Death of the Individual wouldn't matter to the question, so I won't address that. If/when Humanity becomes extinct, it might end up losing all "Meaning". Who cares at that point though? I mean really. Do you think the Dinosaurs lament their Extinction?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,677
6,250
126
I guess my counter argument would be that in (random number here) 200 years from now everyone on the face of this planet will be dead and gone. This is repeated to infinity. What has been accomplished?

Another example. Say there is a society where half live in a utopia and the other half are slaves who are abused in every way throughout their lives. When both die their experience or non-existence is equal. Ultimately everything is equalized out and the whole exercise is completely meaningless for both individuals as they're right back where they started...not existing.

Do you think our current World, our Knowledge, and Technology was all Discovered/Made by Us the current Living? No, what we enjoy now is based upon Generations of People, who are all Dead, adding "Meaning" to our World.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,904
14,305
146
I guess my counter argument would be that in (random number here) 200 years from now everyone on the face of this planet will be dead and gone. This is repeated to infinity. What has been accomplished?

Another example. Say there is a society where half live in a utopia and the other half are slaves who are abused in every way throughout their lives. When both die their experience or non-existence is equal. Ultimately everything is equalized out and the whole exercise is completely meaningless for both individuals as they're right back where they started...not existing.

Do you then "give" the slaves religion to make them believe that their lot in life will be better in the afterlife in order to gain a stronger control over them in this life? After all, "Yes, this life sucks, but if you follow my rules, when you die, you will go to a better place...but if you don't, you will go to a place of eternal pain and suffering!" sure seems like an easy way to control the "unwashed masses."
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
64
91
Yeah, sorry, this is more of a parody thread. Still, many of the posters in here are atheists and are generally derogatory towards the folks here who do believe in a God.

Based on science or scientific method I would have to concede there is no way to know if God does or does not exist. I do fail to see how being a Christian, and thus believing in God, makes me intellectually inferior or makes any difference in the world view of an atheist.

Believing in something that can't be proven, especially when your only "evidence" comes from the myths of primitive bronze and iron age jews who kept on getting the crap kicked out of them, is stupid.

Guess what, I don't have any actual beliefs about what happened before the big-bang (or, before several miliseconds after the big bang). We can't scientifically asses beyond that point, right now, so what's the point in spending any energy "believing" what happened. What I do know, though, is that some tribe in the middle east didn't come up with what actually happened, or have any connection to the thing that created our Universe.


At the risk of sounding very selfish, if there is no afterlife, does anything we do here really matter in the long-term for anyone? I don't see how it can.

That makes you pathetic.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
11
81
Yeah, sorry, this is more of a parody thread. Still, many of the posters in here are atheists and are generally derogatory towards the folks here who do believe in a God.

Based on science or scientific method I would have to concede there is no way to know if God does or does not exist. I do fail to see how being a Christian, and thus believing in God, makes me intellectually inferior or makes any difference in the world view of an atheist.

At the risk of sounding very selfish, if there is no afterlife, does anything we do here really matter in the long-term for anyone? I don't see how it can.
You mind if I rape your wife and decapitate your children?
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
I guess my counter argument would be that in (random number here) 200 years from now everyone on the face of this planet will be dead and gone. This is repeated to infinity. What has been accomplished?

Another example. Say there is a society where half live in a utopia and the other half are slaves who are abused in every way throughout their lives. When both die their experience or non-existence is equal. Ultimately everything is equalized out and the whole exercise is completely meaningless for both individuals as they're right back where they started...not existing.

In terms of the individual, what their life "means" is up to them. Being a totally subjective experience, I get to choose what my life "means" and live accordingly. For me, I find meaning in studying science, philosophy, literature, and even theology (from an academic standpoint). My children provide meaning but not simply as a means of propagation, but as to how they have enriched my life and helped me grow personally.

If everything is ultimately "equalized," as you say, then should we mope about it and die unhappy, meaningless existences or should we derive our own meaning and live life to the fullest?
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Since there are a bunch of people making fun of those of us who do believe in God in this thread, I have a serious question to ask.
Lest my intentions be misconstrued, let me be clear about this one thing: I make fun of stupid theists, of which there seems to be an endless supply on the internets, but I do not believe that all theists are necessarily stupid. More specifically, I attack stupid reasons that theists offer for believing that their god exists. I do not think that there are any good reasons for me to believe.

Since God does not exist in your world view, then does convincing others of your point of view really have any long term meaning?
Meaning is only meaning to someone. It is meaningful to me to demonstrate that the reasons people use to justify their belief in a god are unsound.

I mean, in your world view I assume death of the body means no more existence, and most probably the human race will wipe themselves out, get hit by a meteor, sucked into a black hole, etc. eventually, and life will eventually have been a pointless endeavor in a meaningless universe with no one (at least from humanity's perspective) the wiser for it all.
This is not necessarily true of an atheist's worldview, and it is certainly not true of my worldview.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
At the risk of sounding very selfish, if there is no afterlife, does anything we do here really matter in the long-term for anyone? I don't see how it can.

Yes, it does matter.

Please explain, I'm genuinely curious. I would assume death of the individual or eventually humanity as a whole would render the accomplishments of humanity as a whole completely meaningless.

I guess my counter argument would be that in (random number here) 200 years from now everyone on the face of this planet will be dead and gone. This is repeated to infinity. What has been accomplished?

Another example. Say there is a society where half live in a utopia and the other half are slaves who are abused in every way throughout their lives. When both die their experience or non-existence is equal. Ultimately everything is equalized out and the whole exercise is completely meaningless for both individuals as they're right back where they started...not existing.

Well... interesting.

To me, it all just makes sense.

If you boil it down to the bare minimum, of course in the long-run, it all might appear to be meaningless and thus make life a worthless venture.
To a degree, that is how I see things. Life is truly meaningless, and I desire an atheist civilization. And I don't think that would be impossible at all, as I don't think everyone is going to run around thinking nothing matters and everyone just bites down on the barrel or will go on a crime spree or anything.

I give religion +1 for giving humans something to strive for, purpose and meaning. We as an advanced species have to first survive our earliest struggle, and that is, overcoming our competent but fragile mental self.

But I think we can start moving to a point where we don't need that crutch anymore. That's how I view it, so shoot me, I have a different take on religion that a religious person might have.

I won't deny that at sometimes you feel a little weak and need to find a way, on your own, to push forward. The "spiritual" section of the brain, a very real section of the brain, is a difficult part of the brain to common consciously. It provides pain relief and direction, which is a powerful tool.

The way I see it, the objective of any animal's life, is to make babies and contribute to the group, so that the group will survive over time. Sometimes that means sacrifice, or putting yourself into a situation where your life is on the line for the group. That's what animals do for each other. We're selfish little pricks if you look across the animal kingdom. We don't do for fellow man what other creatures do for their own.

And yet, isn't that what is supposed to drive people? Sacrifice is supposed to be something divine, going out of your own way, putting your way of life on the line for others is supposed to buy you a ticket for heaven. Yet, you see very few actually committing that much to the end. We are severely crippled in the "for the tribe" mentality.

What makes me tick? Besides making a goal of having at least one male child to carry on my family name, I have a personal goal of making that family name remembered. My own personal immortality - the spirit lives on in name, but the soul is gone forever. The way I see it, there is nothing there for me once I decompose, but that doesn't mean I don't strive to make myself such a person that will go to great lengths for his family and community. IMHO, everyone needs to have a high-reaching goal, of doing something go right, that everyone will remember you for your contribution to a better way of life in the future. Progress. We have no limits as a species, so why not devote your life to ensuring our civilization does indeed take one step forward while you are still here and alive.

That is basically why I can be quite vocal in my beliefs, because I am trying (even if I am wrong, somehow... that's got to count for something in the eyes of some egotistical ruler) to put our species on the right track. As a whole, our entire civilization needs to move forward - because ultimately, yes I want to help our species get to a point where we can avoid certain extinction. And, well... you can't do that if you put all your marbles on one Earth-shaped basket. Our future is only guaranteed in this universe, if we get some of our people off this rock. And to do that, we have to move forward - we can't even see past culture, skin color, or nationality at this point... we aren't going to make it as a species, not in the long-term, if we can't get our act together.

And that is why, I hope... oh do I ever hope... that some alien species decides it wants to stir up some shit here on Earth. We desperately need an enemy species, not an enemy group within our own species. If we have another species that makes it a personal goal to kill/eat humans, we might finally unite together under the one true natural banner - that banner reads, "Let's Survive This Shit!"

:)
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
And that is why, I hope... oh do I ever hope... that some alien species decides it wants to stir up some shit here on Earth. We desperately need an enemy species, not an enemy group within our own species. If we have another species that makes it a personal goal to kill/eat humans, we might finally unite together under the one true natural banner - that banner reads, "Let's Survive This Shit!"

The Watchmen?

But seriously. Afterlife, death, and whatnot are silly constructions of irrational atheists, not the religious. I'm living forever. Death has no meaning. There cannot be an afterlife, there is only life.

So ha!
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,835
37
91
Who cares, believe or not whatever you f****g feel like. Why would anyone here care what someone else believes, maybe try an open mind for a change and realize that in reality land, we are all different and accept that

IF there is a God, obviously its will was to make us all think different. Telling anyone else of difference that they are wrong is Non acceptance of Gods will which is hypocritical to the very belief if not blasphemous. Makes no sense, its like God is the truth, everything.....except it was a moron to make everyone believe and think however they want along with creating so many variations of religion....either 1 is right or All is wrong, none can prove ....so why bicker, argue and demean others? ....oh, cause God must love war huh.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
...
But I think we can start moving to a point where we don't need that crutch anymore. That's how I view it, so shoot me, I have a different take on religion that a religious person might have.
There are some intensely stupid people out there though.


I won't deny that at sometimes you feel a little weak and need to find a way, on your own, to push forward. The "spiritual" section of the brain, a very real section of the brain, is a difficult part of the brain to common consciously. It provides pain relief and direction, which is a powerful tool.
I view it as a psychological vestigial thing.
You spend your formative years with a parent figure - or else the built-in desire to have one around. These parents provide a feeling of security, of someone watching over you. As you grow, you realize that they're really not all that powerful, despite defending you from monsters which seem to live in all dark places of your house.* Now you see other dangers in life, dangers which your parents can't protect you from. Time to upgrade to a bigger, better security blanket. One which is conveniently invisible.

*- Monsters everywhere, which likely arises from a past when a delightfully pink and soft primate would make a tasty meal for various large predators which could brandish formidable weaponry in 1-on-1 combat, particularly things like teeth and claws. Being constantly paranoid about dangerous things lurking everywhere would be a good survival trait.


The way I see it, the objective of any animal's life, is to make babies and contribute to the group, so that the group will survive over time. Sometimes that means sacrifice, or putting yourself into a situation where your life is on the line for the group. That's what animals do for each other. We're selfish little pricks if you look across the animal kingdom. We don't do for fellow man what other creatures do for their own.
Prime directive - reproduce at any cost. Why else would rape be such a problem? And it isn't a behavior that's confined to our species. Then there's the more extreme ones, like various spiders and insects where the male will serve as a decent snack for the female he's getting busy with.



And yet, isn't that what is supposed to drive people? Sacrifice is supposed to be something divine, going out of your own way, putting your way of life on the line for others is supposed to buy you a ticket for heaven. Yet, you see very few actually committing that much to the end. We are severely crippled in the "for the tribe" mentality.
And it keeps biting us in the ass - the follow-the-leader mentality, even if he's utterly insane. The "I'm helping the pack alpha! Yay me!" part of your brain starts overriding the part saying "This guy's utterly insane. He says he enjoys polishing his shoes with cloudy skies. That doesn't even make sense." Or it overrides the part that says, "Wait, I'm putting my life on the line to fight a war because this leader guy doesn't like people who eat Cheetos?" (Wars have been fought over far sillier things.)



What makes me tick? Besides making a goal of having at least one male child to carry on my family name, I have a personal goal of making that family name remembered. My own personal immortality - the spirit lives on in name, but the soul is gone forever. The way I see it, there is nothing there for me once I decompose, but that doesn't mean I don't strive to make myself such a person that will go to great lengths for his family and community. IMHO, everyone needs to have a high-reaching goal, of doing something go right, that everyone will remember you for your contribution to a better way of life in the future. Progress. We have no limits as a species, so why not devote your life to ensuring our civilization does indeed take one step forward while you are still here and alive.
Other options: Make a name for yourself, in some way. Or contribute to humanity's total knowledge. Or nef epically.
Or, enjoy yourself on your own. The species will get along without just just fine. :p




And that is why, I hope... oh do I ever hope... that some alien species decides it wants to stir up some shit here on Earth. We desperately need an enemy species, not an enemy group within our own species. If we have another species that makes it a personal goal to kill/eat humans, we might finally unite together under the one true natural banner - that banner reads, "Let's Survive This Shit!"

:)
"I hate killing aliens. I miss the good old days when we could just kill each other."

We'd go right back to our old ways. No external threats, such as large, dangerous predators, or extraplanetary invaders? Cool. Peace starts, then people get slightly irritable, and turn on each other once again - unless there's some kind of genetic progress at some point which tones down our inherent aggression, predatory nature, and dangerous tribal mentality.
 

llee

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2009
1,152
0
76
Then why is His name capitalized?

Just because you might doesn't mean that atheists do as well. They don't capitalize the word 'god'.

If God doesn't exist, then why is there exactly 60 seconds in one minute and 60 minutes in one hour? Evolution? lol. Such a "coincidence" could only be the sign of an intelligent creator.

Thank the Babylonians, Sandford Fleming and Greenwich.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I view it as a psychological vestigial thing.
You spend your formative years with a parent figure - or else the built-in desire to have one around. These parents provide a feeling of security, of someone watching over you. As you grow, you realize that they're really not all that powerful, despite defending you from monsters which seem to live in all dark places of your house.* Now you see other dangers in life, dangers which your parents can't protect you from. Time to upgrade to a bigger, better security blanket. One which is conveniently invisible.

I definitely can see this as quite likely. All sorts of things can subconsciously trigger our spiritual gray matter (or is that part the white matter? :hmm: ), and half of them likely don't trigger any spiritual beliefs... sometimes we take our fellow man, say a cult leader, and make them our own personal prophet... a faith of a type. The trick has got to be a methodology that should be taught during elementary school, some way to tap into our subconscious security blanket, that doesn't involve faith in anything. A personal spirituality of sorts, a little personal faith in self in the "I'm down with life and all this awesome shit" sort of way.
I personally think it's a useful and strong part of our brain, something very useful to our mental well-being, and lends a hand to hardening our physiology at times. It helps provide weight to memory and adds to our connections with what is around us, but more importantly, it can actually help the body recover - it may be part of the brain that helps give some people a little extra pep when times are tough, help the body heal from stress and may even boost tissue repair (ever notice how quickly someone wastes away once they give up the fight, curious if once the mind let's go, the body heals slower... I'd love to know if that spirituality part of the brain has any impact on this, or if there is any truth to that situation - the mind quits, and so follows the body.)


Other options: Make a name for yourself, in some way. Or contribute to humanity's total knowledge. Or nef epically.
Or, enjoy yourself on your own. The species will get along without just just fine. :p

I'm trying for the first two... I don't know about that last one. :sneaky:


"I hate killing aliens. I miss the good old days when we could just kill each other."

We'd go right back to our old ways. No external threats, such as large, dangerous predators, or extraplanetary invaders? Cool. Peace starts, then people get slightly irritable, and turn on each other once again - unless there's some kind of genetic progress at some point which tones down our inherent aggression, predatory nature, and dangerous tribal mentality.

Well, that's why we hope we find an alien threat that just never goes away, and maybe there are multiple alien threats that we find and must fight after they find out about us getting into the ring with a massive alien empire or at least a huge community of alien neighbors that interact with each other in some way.

Maybe we'll find alien friends that also dislike the one that attacked us. It'd be cool to join the universal neighborhood. Imagine the political hell that would be. We have enough racial and cultural issues as it is now, and we all have the same physical body type... what happens when a friendly alien species looks like some hideous creature from hell, something like out of the movies where the aliens attack us? That'd be interesting.
I want to meet aliens. But hell, I don't think I want to live through the inter-species tensions that would surely follow.

But nah, the first alien to see us would probably wipe us out. Hopefully we have a Space Navy by then, and hopefully we found them first.
After all, the species that finds the other species, is probably the one that is more advanced.

And hell, what my wish comes true, but we'll be the more advanced ones, and we'll end up being the ones that subjugate and basically ruin the lives of the other species. We're far more capable of that mentally, it just depends on who has the better tools of destruction.