Have to laugh: GM's Archaic Assembly Line...

[Pariah]

Shit is only going to be as good as what you put in it. And this also applies to the investment and attention to detail given to the environments in which people are expected to produce great things.

Well, you've already posted a picture of the Phaeton plant. So let me post a picture of the plant for what I believe was the only $100k+ car that the Big 3 were producing during the 2004-06 timeframe that the Phaeton was being sold in the US:

http://www.muscularmustangs.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=678


So, how are these $100k cars doing today?

Here's is a fully loaded W12 Phaeton:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...e=b&num_records=25&cardist=450&standard=false

$19,545

Ford GT?

http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos...keid=33&makename=Ford&modelid=12&modelname=GT

Lowest listed is $152,975, and they go way up from there.

Should also be added that there are about 50% more Ford GT's in the US than Phaetons, so if you're looking for exclusivity, you need to go with the Phaeton here.


"Shit is only as good as what you put into it?"

Based on what Ford produced in that shed, and VW produced in theirs, it's quite obvious that all VW did with the Dresden plant was polish a turd. Shiny on the outside, crap on the inside.

 

[wirednuts]

i think manufacturers do this on purpose so that once the thermal goo dries out in 2 years the computer overheats causing a need for a new computer

 

[DirthNader]

Do the GM plants afford this same level of modularity? Do they have this kind of forethought? I think not.

It depends.

GM is not ignorant to the benefits of flexible manufacturing. Spring Hill was clean, modular, and used just-in-time delivery for many subassemblies, both internal and external. Also was very environmentally friendly; having a farm on the same land as you have a foundry says something.

Older plants, not so much.

It's incredibly expensive to retool a plant. Not just the cost in equipment, but the cost in downtime as you idle the normal workforce and cost in overtime as you push the people doing the retooling to finish ASAP.

When we added the SUV lines to Spring Hill, we had all of the new lines laid out in a supplier facility in Wisconson. They were up and running there before we ever dreamed about shutting down the plant to install them.

 

[NoCreativity]

Haha. OP cherry picks out one line of one post that kind of agrees with his point (though takes it somewhat out of context) while ignoring most of the other 70 some posts that disagree to "prove" his point. Thanks for the laugh OP.

And thanks for the info from those who actually have some experience other than some pictures.

 

[Bignate603]

I saw this news story today.

 

[Rifter]

Typical GTaudiophile hates America thread.

100% this, nice cherry picked photos.

 

[rcpratt]

Dumbest post I've seen in awhile.

 

[Sidekicknichola]

Or a BMW line in Bavaria:

No wonder we can't build cars for shit!

...anyone who has worked in maufacturing (which I have/currently do) knows damn well this photo was a "photo op" or photoshopped in.... not mid production. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a "set" and the workers were actors/models.... the only possible chance it is a "real" photo is maybe a final inspection/QA area. Seems strange to me the care looks to be complete but has no rims/tires and is being hosted at that point in the process.... my guess is once the car is able to roll it spends most of its time on the ground from then on, not on a lift.

 

[DirthNader]

...anyone who has worked in maufacturing (which I have/currently do) knows damn well this photo was a "photo op" or photoshopped in.... not mid production. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a "set" and the workers were actors/models.... the only possible chance it is a "real" photo is maybe a final inspection/QA area..

Probably a final assembly / prep area. The lighting screams inspection. Also, any time you can wait to mount a painted part, you wait. Bumper covers fall into that category. Paint damage causes rework, and plant managers are obsessed with direct run percentage.

...Seems strange to me the care looks to be complete but has no rims/tires and is being hosted at that point in the process.... my guess is once the car is able to roll it spends most of its time on the ground from then on, not on a lift.

That's really not odd. Wheels / tires are one of the last things to go on. In every plant I've worked in it happens right before fluid fill, maybe a step or two before they roll off the line for final inspection.

 

[Sidekicknichola]

In every plant I've worked in it happens right before fluid fill, maybe a step or two before they roll off the line for final inspection.

I've always experienced you completed the underworkings early, then get the item being produced to be able to roll... once on the ground it is easier, cheaper, and safer to complete the finishing touches

 

[DirthNader]

I've always experienced you completed the underworkings early, then get the item being produced to be able to roll... once on the ground it is easier, cheaper, and safer to complete the finishing touches

Automotive assembly lines do some snaking to fit in a smaller area. If you put the car on the ground with no way to turn the wheels, it makes turns a bit of a hassle.

We always waited until the car could make a straight shot out the door before it ever touched the ground.

Keep in mind I've seen a more than a few assembly plants, but 99% of them were GM facilities (I did interview on-site w/ Honda when I was leaving GM). Other OEMs may do things differently.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Ultimate Factories.

Yeah, I've seen those shows too and the Corvette (ZR1 IIRC) assembly line looked pitiful compared to every other car manufacturer they've showcased and they showcased Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Mercedes, and even Ducati. The Ferrari factory is state of the art.

OK, Corvettes, $50k - $112k Out performs most cars costing 3x as much and outsells them by a fair amount too. If GM made the factories look like Ikea stores, then the Vette wouldn't be the value it is.
I don't give a crap what the factory looks like or what the people that built it look like. I'll take a workhorse chevy 350 built by hank over a high strung turbo v6 or v8 built by Hanz and Franz, because I know that chevy 350 will out last that kraut motor by decades.

 

[PandaBear]

You're comparing fancy press photos of luxury facilities to an everyday photo of a re-purposed building that was built in the 80's. This is a fair comparison in your mind? LOL

well said, the middle photo is not an assembly line, but rather the lobby of an office. The bottom one is more of a photoshop

 

[SparkyJJO]

I would also like to echo Steve Jobs who believed that what something looks like on the inside is equally important to what people see on the outside. His father taught him that, so he worked tirelessly to make sure the inside of the Apple II, Mac, etc. looked as flawless as it could.

...But only as far as the customer can see.

I've repaired apple computers, farther in there can be plenty of crap used. Apple seems to like using ACBel for their power supplies, and ACBel uses capacitors of questional long-term reliability in those systems. Yes, better than the lowest end available, but certainly not close to anything higher end. Guess they couldn't bear to spend an extra dollar per unit

 

[DirthNader]

...Yes, better than the lowest end available, but certainly not close to anything higher end. Guess they couldn't bear to spend an extra dollar per unit

This is one of the primary reasons I left GM.

I could show someone in purchasing hard warranty claim data to prove that a part from a particular supplier was driving an additional $0.10 / vehicle in warranty costs over a part from a better supplier.

They didn't care because the subpar vendor was $0.05 / vehicle cheaper on purchase price, and that was what their performance was rated on. Even more infuriating, they'd take my data to the subpar vendor and start demanding concessions on future orders. Yeah, if they couldn't build a quality part for X dollars I'm sure they'll get it done for X-Y dollars.

 

[JulesMaximus]

OK, Corvettes, $50k - $112k Out performs most cars costing 3x as much and outsells them by a fair amount too. If GM made the factories look like Ikea stores, then the Vette wouldn't be the value it is.
I don't give a crap what the factory looks like or what the people that built it look like. I'll take a workhorse chevy 350 built by hank over a high strung turbo v6 or v8 built by Hanz and Franz, because I know that chevy 350 will out last that kraut motor by decades.

U mad bro?

 

[Pacfanweb]

Funny thing is, the GM cars are typically better than VW's, regardless of how clean VW's assembly line is. BMW's aren't that great, either. As much as they charge for those ridiculously over-engineered heaps, they ought to have a clean factory.

 

[Herr Kutz]

Funny thing is, the GM cars are typically better than VW's, regardless of how clean VW's assembly line is. BMW's aren't that great, either. As much as they charge for those ridiculously over-engineered heaps, they ought to have a clean factory.

There is no such thing as over-engineered. The phrase you are looking for is "poorly engineered".

 

[Pacfanweb]

There is no such thing as over-engineered. The phrase you are looking for is "poorly engineered".

Probably so.

If you try and access say, the underside of the dash on a BMW, it's just ridiculous how much stuff you have to take apart to do it.

I did a job on a BMW awhile back...I think it was the little SUV, they needed to remove the carpet. You had to REMOVE the freaking dash to get the carpet out, per the factory manual.

If that's not just ridiculous, I don't know what is.

No wonder they lost the war, if all their tanks and planes were that hard to work on and get back into service.

 

[MovingTarget]

I saw this news story today.

Ah, cheer up! Look on the bright side! Perhaps BMW can show GM what an inline 6 looks like again and GM can show BMW what a proper electrical system looks like. Its a win-win all around! :thumbsup:

 

[exar333]

Ah, cheer up! Look on the bright side! Perhaps BMW can show GM what an inline 6 looks like again and GM can show BMW what a proper electrical system looks like. Its a win-win all around! :thumbsup:

Keep in mind BMW is phasing-out inline 6s in most of their models...

 

[Pariah]

There is no such thing as over-engineered. The phrase you are looking for is "poorly engineered".

Sure there is. Designing something to exceed the specifications required would be considered over-engineering. If a passenger is supposed to survive a 30MPH crash, and the car is built so that the passenger can survive a 40mph crash, I would not call that poorly engineered though it is over-engineered based on the required performance.

What's was early described as over engineering in this thread, I would agree is not. Making something more complicated than it has to be is not over-engineering, it's poorly engineered.

 

[PricklyPete]

If only GM was like Subaru...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zzYhFw81lEo#!

they just push a red button and a perfectly made car magically appears...none of this assembly shit.

 

[Throckmorton]

Ah, cheer up! Look on the bright side! Perhaps BMW can show GM what an inline 6 looks like again and GM can show BMW what a proper electrical system looks like. Its a win-win all around! :thumbsup:

Longitudonal I6 engines should go away. A V6 allows more crumple zone, and the engine can be placed further back which helps weight distribution.

 

[erikistired]

rofl yea dude.

I had that impression a while back when I was watching the car factory shows from each manufacturer and I saw all the BMW/Porsche/Audi ones first, after that I watched the Corvette one and lawl'd. No disrespect to the Corvette, it's one of my favorite cars, but the assembly line and the people working there...lol.

that's your local union at work! sucking the life out of the auto industry one poorly built automobile at a time.