Have an H-1B?

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

You do realize they don't have to contribute to the same things those in the US do and also are usually on country sponsered benefits back home.

It's easy to cut out health insurance and benefits when you get them already...

I realize, nevertheless it's cheaper labor, that's the bottom line. If policy didn't force employers to provide insurance and benefits, that would level the playing field.

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Foreigners are taking your jobs because they contribute more per dollar.

In other words employers can squeeze out more work out of foreigners for cheaper. I like the way you re-worded that. :thumbsup:

Yup, that's exactly it. This is a free market and it's beautiful.

No doubt I've lost job opportunities in the past because of globalization, and I'm sure some fella from India will take a good job opportunity in the future that would have otherwise been mine. Without a doubt I would be making more than I am right now had outsourcing and immigrant working been heavily restricted.

But again, a qualified worker, regardless of their location, now has a job that has been earned. If someone can do what I can do for half of what I ask for, I'll shake their hand and go out with a smile. This is how it's supposed to work, you're paid what you're worth. If someone else can do the same for less money, you're getting paid too much and the system is broken.

Arbitrary restrictions to where your workers come from could be narrowed down to state, city or even neighborhood. Either one of these would be just as stupid as restricting out-of-country workers. The worker pool is global and should be treated as such.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: alkemyst

You do realize they don't have to contribute to the same things those in the US do and also are usually on country sponsered benefits back home.

It's easy to cut out health insurance and benefits when you get them already...

I realize, nevertheless it's cheaper labor, that's the bottom line. If policy didn't force employers to provide insurance and benefits, that would level the playing field.

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Foreigners are taking your jobs because they contribute more per dollar.

In other words employers can squeeze out more work out of foreigners for cheaper. I like the way you re-worded that. :thumbsup:

Yup, that's exactly it. This is a free market and it's beautiful.

No doubt I've lost job opportunities in the past because of globalization, and I'm sure some fella from India will take a good job opportunity in the future that would have otherwise been mine. Without a doubt I would be making more than I am right now had outsourcing and immigrant working been heavily restricted.

But again, a qualified worker, regardless of their location, now has a job that has been earned. If someone can do what I can do for half of what I ask for, I'll shake their hand and go out with a smile. This is how it's supposed to work, you're paid what you're worth. If someone else can do the same for less money, you're getting paid too much and the system is broken.

Arbitrary restrictions to where your workers come from could be narrowed down to state, city or even neighborhood. Either one of these would be just as stupid as restricting out-of-country workers. The worker pool is global and should be treated as such.

It's not about getting paid too much. If I paid myself a salary to compete with workers in India, I'd barely break the poverty level. If US companies priced themselves so below the competition like that, the gov would step in and declare it predatory pricing. Certainly, over the long term it's not sustainable; predatory companies usually can't sustain their practices over the long term and still be profitable, and Indian workers are now experiencing an increase in cost-of-living coupled with the drop of the dollar.

As I said earlier in this thread, most H1B workers want roughly the same income as American workers when they're here. There's nothing wrong with that of course; if they can get it, I think they should. If there were instead an influx of H1B workers that were willing to accept the equivalent of what someone at Starbucks makes (and still ultimately have an income equivalent to upper middle-class in India in some states), equivalently qualified American workers would have some tough decisions to make. It's not competition among workers if your respective economy won't allow you to do so financially.

I'm no economist, so I'm quite sure the thoughts expressed above fall under some known ideas. I'm just calling it as I see it.

 

[alkemyst]

insurance and benefits also are not 'required', I don't know why the person assumed that. However; but grouping insurance and benefits it creates cheaper ones and makes the payroll dollar stretch further.

Regardless though, if no one bought insurance it would cost us more in caring for them. Like I said though most of the H1B workers have insurance back home...the US doesn't have a national medical plan available to everyone.

Unfortunately with VISAS it's not a free market. As an employer you are only supposed to use H1B's when you can't find workers, not when you can't find workers because you think the job pays too much.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
As an employer you are only supposed to use H1B's when you can't find workers.

You can always find workers if you're paying enough, what's the socialist mandate on 'maximum wage' before you're free from absurd government constraints on your hiring policy?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: alkemyst
As an employer you are only supposed to use H1B's when you can't find workers.

You can always find workers if you're paying enough, what's the socialist mandate on 'maximum wage' before you're free from absurd government constraints on your hiring policy?

No you can't and that was why the H1B was created. Some skilled labor was no where to be found in certain areas.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: alkemyst
As an employer you are only supposed to use H1B's when you can't find workers.

You can always find workers if you're paying enough, what's the socialist mandate on 'maximum wage' before you're free from absurd government constraints on your hiring policy?

No you can't and that was why the H1B was created. Some skilled labor was no where to be found in certain areas.

300 Million people, yes, you can.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: alkemyst
As an employer you are only supposed to use H1B's when you can't find workers.

You can always find workers if you're paying enough, what's the socialist mandate on 'maximum wage' before you're free from absurd government constraints on your hiring policy?

No you can't and that was why the H1B was created. Some skilled labor was no where to be found in certain areas.

300 Million people, yes, you can.

WTF kind of ignorant reply was that, are you 12 or something?

I don't think you know much about specialized labor and shortages in finding people with certain skills.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: alkemyst
As an employer you are only supposed to use H1B's when you can't find workers.

You can always find workers if you're paying enough, what's the socialist mandate on 'maximum wage' before you're free from absurd government constraints on your hiring policy?

No you can't and that was why the H1B was created. Some skilled labor was no where to be found in certain areas.

300 Million people, yes, you can.

WTF kind of ignorant reply was that, are you 12 or something?

I don't think you know much about specialized labor and shortages in finding people with certain skills.

I don't think you know much about financial incentive. You offer a billion dollars for a worker of any kind, someone is sure as hell going to quit their job and come work for you.

 

[PimpJuice]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: PimpJuice

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't mind helping those in need, but we need to look after ourselves first.

Right...
So I should leave money here with you rather than send money back home to help my family members. :roll:

Nobody is saying that

I'm saying the US should not allow people like you to work here......but since you are already here, then do what you want, its your money. The number of H1Bs is ridiculous and its gotten to the point where it hurts our economy to spend money on foreign workers who dont help circulate the money within our own country.

I speak for those LIKE YOU who already have their mind made up to make the money and run. I'm all for immigrants who choose to migrate and settle here and improve our country.

Ok, Mr. Hugo Chavez.
When are you going to ban NJ citizens from working in NY since they take their money with them back to New Jersey? Are you going to garnish their wages till they settle in NY? Are you going to ban them from coming to NY?

When are you going to ban MD/VA citizens from working in DC since they take their money with them back and don't spend it in DC?

You expect immigrants to come to America and stay there indefinitely? :roll:
As long as I get my degree here, I don't care whether the US grants H1-B visas or not.
You can't take my talent away from me once I've already earned it.

The problem with your comparison is that there is a much greater chance that money will circulate amongst the states as opposed to money circulating between India and the US.

Do you expect immigrants to come to America and settle there indefinitely?

youre not an 'immigrant' if youre just here to do a job and then leave. Look up the word smart guy.

im-mi-grant - # A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Let's see...the US economy is going into the crapper daily,
Good jobs are getting to be scarcer than hen's teeth...
The company wants to hire foreign workers.

Something VERY wrong with this IMO.

I think it's time to suspend ALL work visas...and hire only American workers.
"Thanks for your labor...now go home."

When a country doesn't have enough jobs for its own people, WHY keep bringing people from other countries to fill jobs?

Of course, that should also mean that we shut down our southern border too...No sense in letting foreigners take the manual labor work too...

The point of an H1-B is that you are able to bring in someone with skills that you have been unable to find in the home country job market. If you hire someone under an H1-B, IF you can get one of the few slots, you have to be able to prove that you've done your utmost to hire that skill in the local job market and were unable to find it. That's why you've got a ton of recruiting and legal issues to handle when hiring an H1-B.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
I don't think you know much about financial incentive. You offer a billion dollars for a worker of any kind, someone is sure as hell going to quit their job and come work for you.

Yeah...let's make it a billion dollars an hour while we are at it in your fantasy world.

You really have no clue. Someone quitting their job at one place still leaves an unfilled vacancy.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: PimpJuice
youre not an 'immigrant' if youre just here to do a job and then leave. Look up the word smart guy.

im-mi-grant - # A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.

It's nice to know that you have nothing else to add to the conversation besides semantics.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
insurance and benefits also are not 'required', I don't know why the person assumed that. However; but grouping insurance and benefits it creates cheaper ones and makes the payroll dollar stretch further.

Regardless though, if no one bought insurance it would cost us more in caring for them. Like I said though most of the H1B workers have insurance back home...the US doesn't have a national medical plan available to everyone.

Unfortunately with VISAS it's not a free market. As an employer you are only supposed to use H1B's when you can't find workers, not when you can't find workers because you think the job pays too much.

No one I know from the African continent has health insurance.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Foreigners are taking your jobs because they contribute more per dollar.

In other words employers can squeeze out more work out of foreigners for cheaper. I like the way you re-worded that. :thumbsup:

And how exactly is that different from IBM/Dell building call centers in India to hire Indian workers there? :roll:

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
Someone quitting their job at one place still leaves an unfilled vacancy.

Obviously, that's beside the point, if someone quits a low paying job for a high paying job, the 'administration' in control of the shitty foreign worker regulations doesn't necessarily have to be aware of it. Point being, the regulation that requires you to look for local workers is very arbitrary, as your ability to find employees largely depends on your wage. If it's low enough, no local with sufficient skills would be willing to do it and therefore you would have no alternative but to hire foreign workers. Therefore creating the conditions for not finding local workers is very easy, pay absurdly shit wages, and if some local is willing to work for such shit wages, all the more power to you.

As you can see, the hiring restriction does nothing but appeases douchebag nationalists at a cost of a big web of legal complications. The employer may artificially inflate the pay beyond what they position is worth just to avoid such a mess and as you mentioned, drag an employee from another company to their own, causing complications for employers that are incapable of sustaining artificially high wages.

The system is screwed up and will remain screwed up until more open foreign worker policies are adopted. It could have been much worse, but as it stands, saying "we don't want you here" to qualified workers that have much to contribute to local business is of no benefit to anyone in the long run.

Europe is far ahead of the curve on this one.

 

[PimpJuice]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: PimpJuice

Originally posted by: Lothar
Do you expect immigrants to come to America and settle there indefinitely?

youre not an 'immigrant' if youre just here to do a job and then leave. Look up the word smart guy.

im-mi-grant - # A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.

It's nice to know that you have nothing else to add to the conversation besides semantics.

Look man, youre taking this way too personally.......you really have no say in this matter since youre not an American citizen. Make your money and go home like you plan on doing. We are discussing H1Bs and why it is getting out of hand especially with the dollar shrinking. I'm not saying theres no place for it, but I'm saying it is getting ridiculous. As for my semantics, it was a response to how stupid your question was. If you are only toing to type one sentence, I'd make sure it makes sense especially since its like the 3rd time you asked the same question.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: alkemyst
Someone quitting their job at one place still leaves an unfilled vacancy.

Obviously, that's beside the point, if someone quits a low paying job for a high paying job, the 'administration' in control of the shitty foreign worker regulations doesn't necessarily have to be aware of it. Point being, the regulation that requires you to look for local workers is very arbitrary, as your ability to find employees largely depends on your wage. If it's low enough, no local with sufficient skills would be willing to do it and therefore you would have no alternative but to hire foreign workers. Therefore creating the conditions for not finding local workers is very easy, pay absurdly shit wages, and if some local is willing to work for such shit wages, all the more power to you.

As you can see, the hiring restriction does nothing but appeases douchebag nationalists at a cost of a big web of legal complications. The employer may artificially inflate the pay beyond what they position is worth just to avoid such a mess and as you mentioned, drag an employee from another company to their own, causing complications for employers that are incapable of sustaining artificially high wages.

The system is screwed up and will remain screwed up until more open foreign worker policies are adopted. It could have been much worse, but as it stands, saying "we don't want you here" to qualified workers that have much to contribute to local business is of no benefit to anyone in the long run.

Europe is far ahead of the curve on this one.

I have news for you...if a company is paying at a certain rate; there is nothing artificial about it.

Your arguments are more suited to general / unskilled labor than the highly specialized type that caters to having H1B workers. I seriously think you are either just trolling or really have no clue on how it works.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Look man, youre taking this way too personally.......you really have no say in this matter since youre not an American citizen. Make your money and go home like you plan on doing. We are discussing H1Bs and why it is getting out of hand especially with the dollar shrinking. I'm not saying theres no place for it, but I'm saying it is getting ridiculous. As for my semantics, it was a response to how stupid your question was. If you are only toing to type one sentence, I'd make sure it makes sense especially since its like the 3rd time you asked the same question.

I've been an American citizen since 2002 and I'm able to vote. :thumbsup:
I have as much say in the matter as you do, Bob.

I'd suggest in the future you make sure your post is entirely error free yourself before criticizing people about their grammar.

 

[alkemyst]

typos are hardly grammar problems.

 

[sao123]

its all well and good for the company to save money by replacing its american workers with foreigners with work visas... I cant wait till they find some to replace all the high paid CEO's & Executives with lower paid replacement mexicans... then maybe someone will realize how retarded this importing of workers really is.

 

[PimpJuice]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: PimpJuice

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: PimpJuice

youre not an 'immigrant' if youre just here to do a job and then leave. Look up the word smart guy.

im-mi-grant - # A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.

It's nice to know that you have nothing else to add to the conversation besides semantics.

Look man, youre taking this way too personally.......you really have no say in this matter since youre not an American citizen. Make your money and go home like you plan on doing. We are discussing H1Bs and why it is getting out of hand especially with the dollar shrinking. I'm not saying theres no place for it, but I'm saying it is getting ridiculous. As for my semantics, it was a response to how stupid your question was. If you are only toing to type one sentence, I'd make sure it makes sense especially since its like the 3rd time you asked the same question.

I've been an American citizen since 2002 and I'm able to vote. :thumbsup:
I have as much say in the matter as you do, Bob.

I'd suggest in the future you make sure your post is entirely error free yourself before criticizing people about their grammar.

Well then I apologize. I thought I heard you say that you werent a citizen. I thought you were an H1B guy just here to make a quick buck and leave. There is a place for them, but as I've said before.....I believe its getting out of hand (MS basically begging Congress to raise limits so they can hire more foreign workers). I dont believe them and honestly feel they are just trying to cut expenses. They have every right of cutting expenses, but we also have the right of not making it easy for them when it starts to affect the American people.

Also, feel free to nitpick this post also for spelling mistakes and lack of apostraphes........I still find it funny that you kept asking "Do you expect immigrants to come to America and settle there indefinitely?" over and over throughout the thread.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Foreigners are taking your jobs because they contribute more per dollar.

In other words employers can squeeze out more work out of foreigners for cheaper. I like the way you re-worded that. :thumbsup:

And how exactly is that different from IBM/Dell building call centers in India to hire Indian workers there? :roll:

You need to stop falling back on that excuse and realize that while they are similar, they both really suck for same reasons when it comes to the American working citizen whose profession happens to be one where the whole H1-B option is used and abused. These days, you are finding less and less companies hiring H1-Bs because there is a shortage of qualified Americans. Instead, they are abusing the system like a previous poster mentioned by creating ridiculous requirements for a job, no Americans get hired, and then they qualify to hire an H1-B which means they can get more by paying less.

This is all about money, corruption, and abusing the system on both ends. The short end of stick goes out to people like me who find it harder to get a job because while they are qualified to do whatever the job requires, we don't get it because the posted "requirements" are ridiculous and the salary is too low for those who actually have the requirements to accept the position. Instead some foreigner who might very well be less qualified than I am is the one who actually gets the job.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Lothar
And how exactly is that different from IBM/Dell building call centers in India to hire Indian workers there? :roll:

You need to stop falling back on that excuse and realize that while they are similar, they both really suck for same reasons when it comes to the American working citizen whose profession happens to be one where the whole H1-B option is used and abused. These days, you are finding less and less companies hiring H1-Bs because there is a shortage of qualified Americans. Instead, they are abusing the system like a previous poster mentioned by creating ridiculous requirements for a job, no Americans get hired, and then they qualify to hire an H1-B which means they can get more by paying less.

There's no option that will please everyone.
They both suck, but one of them is the lesser of two evils.

A 3rd option, as suggested by you at the bottom of page 6 is to take the "wait and see" approach and hope a tech company that will only hire Americans in the US and not build any factories/buildings in China/India emerges from the bottomless pit.

Wishful thinking.
I wish that company good luck in competing with the likes of Microsoft, Google, Dell, IBM, and Cisco in the marketplace.

 

[Parasitic]

We should just make all migrant workers pay 3x the amount of taxes. They don't need that much money anyways.

 

[neodyn55]

Originally posted by: Parasitic
We should just make all migrant workers pay 3x the amount of taxes. They don't need that much money anyways.

Didn't the Brits doing something like that cause the American war of independence?