Hate Mask and Vaccine Mandates? Just Wait For The Electric Cars

[Stokely]

I'm pretty much a perfect candidate for an EV, having a home and having access to several other non-EVs in the family.

Problem is, I want my next car to be larger (to haul my music gear) and we don't yet have a great selection of larger EVs.

The Kia EV9 seems perfect if it's just as good as the Telluride is. An EV minivan would be great too, I miss our old Odyssey.

Frankly I work from home and drive maybe...10 miles a week on average? 20 maybe? It's not much. The smartest decision is probably going to be to keep my paid-off gas car that doesn't get used much. But I have a son that will be driving in a year and he might get it. We'll see! It ain't right that junior gets the new car but that makes more sense really than stay-at-home me getting one does...

I don't like the idea of extra complexity of having a hybrid system, though perhaps I am overthinking that one. I guess if the only car capable of a family road trip was an EV I'd strongly consider just renting for that trip. This thread is not the only thing I've read about how shitty the charging networks are. (Honestly after the last family trip I'm in no hurry to do another one! Dad needed a vacation after the vacation....)

 

[vi edit]

From my perspective, if we are going to keep building autocentric infrastructure, at least putting chargers in existing parking lots makes sense. We shouldn't be looking to follow the gas station model for electric charging. Plop down chargers in the lots of places people will be stopping for 10-60 minutes.

That's fine for intra-town stuff. But when you need reliable and high speed charging for cross-state travel that's a very different use case.

 

[nOOky]

Is the ability to cover 2,000+ miles in less than 48-hours fast enough for you? Yeah a Tesla is capable of doing this for long road trips.
A EV doesn't let you engage the motor while you are charging so that isn't going to happen Unlike a ICE vehicle which will let you drive away with the gas station hose still in the gas tank.

If you have a 200+ mile range EV, that for most rural users that covers you for the day. You unplug in the morning and then plug back in the evening when you are done for the day. Usually for me with my EV I will let the charge get below 40% and then I charge it back up to 80%. I rarely charge it to 100% unless I have a longer trip planned the next day.

I agree an EV would likely work for me *most of the time to commute. However I'm rural, so it would be using my own home charger, there are literally no charging stations within convenient use for me. We also make several drives of over 300 miles every so often, and I've looked at the time it would add to my trips etc. As technology matures and hopefully prices drop I'll re-evaluate. Here's a map of available charging stations in my area, the yellow highlighted is my daily commute of about 25 miles.

 

[Brainonska511]

That's fine for intra-town stuff. But when you need reliable and high speed charging for cross-state travel that's a very different use case.

Put them at highway rest stops then. We should be building up both sides of charging capacity.

 

[Captante]

No that wouldn't have worked because as a startup Tesla needed to become profitable and didn't know how to build cars at high volume. Tesla had enough issues just trying to ramp-up production on the Model 3. What class of EV's is 100% owned by the competition? The low volume sales class?

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Right now Nissan and Hyundai.... soon every car maker.

 

[Brovane]

Right now Nissan and Hyundai.... soon every car maker.

What class of EV's are you talking about?

 

[Captante]

Affordable. (also GM btw)

 

[Brovane]

I agree an EV would likely work for me *most of the time to commute. However I'm rural, so it would be using my own home charger, there are literally no charging stations within convenient use for me. We also make several drives of over 300 miles every so often, and I've looked at the time it would add to my trips etc. As technology matures and hopefully prices drop I'll re-evaluate. Here's a map of available charging stations in my area, the yellow highlighted is my daily commute of about 25 miles.

If you have charging at your house, you are probably never going to need the services of a charging in your local area. All the public charging stations I use are when I am on the road. The technology is improving every year. The new 800V Battery technology in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 is supposed to allow charging from 10-80% in less than 20 minutes.

 

[Captante]

I know one thing with 100% iron-clad certainty.

Every time I get in a discussion about EV's online I feel as though I've gone back in time to the old AT video-forums!




(and god-forbid you even think an unhappy thought about Tesla!)

 

[Brovane]

That's the exact one I did end up using. Look at how long I charged and how much it cost vs the EA station once I was able to get into it.

I did plan. I knew there was an EA station in Bend. I planned to get there with around 80 miles of range in the event I needed to do some running around. Planning means some base expectations are set. One of my expectations was not having to revisit a high speed charger 3 times before finally getting a chance to use it.

If airlines said you had a 75% chance of not getting a seat but come anyway to try and fly it would be the end of modern air travel as we know it.

I find plug share is a good way to research charging stations to determine if a charging station is having issues. You can read recent check-ins and see about possible issues ahead of time. For example when we went to Bakersfield several months ago. I found a free DC charging station in a park-ride parking lot managed by the state. I was like cool free charging until I read some of the comments on Plugshare with people reporting issue after issue with the station. So I found the location of nearby Charge-Point station as a backup which I did need. The wife's and I method is to always have enough range to get to a backup station in-case the one we where planning on falls through when travelling with a EV. Admittedly this is easier in CA because of the number of charging stations.

 

[Brovane]

Affordable. (also GM btw)

What is the price range of affordable? Sub $40k?

 

[vi edit]

If you have charging at your house, you are probably never going to need the services of a charging in your local area. All the public charging stations I use are when I am on the road. The technology is improving every year. The new 800V Battery technology in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 is supposed to allow charging from 10-80% in less than 20 minutes.

Those internal electronics are great...so long as you have something that can pump juice to them that fast. To me it's a lot like having a gigabit fiber internet, but only having streaming services that are capable of giving you crappy SD quality streams. There's soooo much infrastructure that needs to catch up.

 

[Captante]

What is the price range of affordable? Sub $40k?

That would be relative to the buyer although for the average person Tesla simply doesn't make one. (roughly $50k at minimum is NOT "affordable")

For many people EV's are workable.

For many more however they are not and until there are some big changes the average Joe is extremely unlikely to adopt them.

Don't be like the sad-clown Tesla fan-boi on another forum who tried to convince me that being forced to stop for 15-20 minutes to charge on a road-trip was actually a "plus" for EV's ROTFL.

 

[Brovane]

That would be relative to the buyer although for the average person Tesla simply doesn't make one. (roughly $50k at minimum is NOT "affordable")

For many people EV's are workable.

For many more however they are not and until there are some big changes the average Joe is extremely unlikely to adopt them.

Don't be like the sad-clown Tesla fan-boi on another forum who tried to convince me that being forced to stop for 15-20 minutes to charge on a road-trip was actually a "plus" for EV's ROTFL.

I would think that the ability to cover 2,000+ miles in less than 48-hours on a road trip is workable for the vast majority of drivers.

 

[Captante]

I would think that the ability to cover 2,000+ miles in less than 48-hours on a road trip is workable for the vast majority of drivers.

However being forced to stop and charge is a 100% DIS-advantage for EV's.

Although provided you use an "EV-centric" navigation app and plan your trip at least partially around recharging the EV will eventually you get there.

The pollution and waste from ICE vehicles really sucks BUT I can walk outside to a car on "E" and be doing 75 on the highway with a full tank in less than 10 minutes. (and anywhere I go there will almost certainly be gasoline for sale)

 

[ImpulsE69]

I foresee a bunch of 911 calls of people running drop cords from some random house to some random car passing through.

 

[vi edit]

There's some things with the charging time that get distorted. For starters, I plug my car in at home before leaving. That's time I *didn't* have to go to a gas station. When I get home, I do the same. More time *not* at a station. That all adds up. I can't really explain how much comfort there is to just being able to roll into your drive and fill up your car at home. It's fantastic.

Now most of my issues come around infrastructure and reliability for charging on the road. I can easily power through 3 hours of driving with my Mach-E. At that point I *want* a break. Walk, bio, food, ect. Most EA charging stations are in Walmart parking lots. So it's a chance to hit the bathroom, grab some ice cream, a drink, ect and just wonder around as the car takes 30-40 minutes to do it's thing. Same when it comes to dinner. Sometimes we'll just hit a drive through and eat in the car while it charges. That's time I didn't have to spend at a gas station.

I'm certainly not saying it's overall less time than filling up a traditional ICE gas tank. But it's not as time consuming as it can be made out to be. So long as you aren't waiting in a line of cars for a single working charger. Then it's a shit show.

 

[Paratus]

That would be relative to the buyer although for the average person Tesla simply doesn't make one. (roughly $50k at minimum is NOT "affordable")

For many people EV's are workable.

For many more however they are not and until there are some big changes the average Joe is extremely unlikely to adopt them.

Don't be like the sad-clown Tesla fan-boi on another forum who tried to convince me that being forced to stop for 15-20 minutes to charge on a road-trip was actually a "plus" for EV's ROTFL.

About that $50K:

The Kelley Blue Book new-vehicle ATP increased to $48,182 in July 2022, beating the previous high of $48,043 set last month. July prices rose 0.3% ($139) from June 2022 and 11.9% ($5,126) from July 2021.
Basically we are all screwed, ICE & EV buyers, if buying new.

 

[Captante]

Long as you have a convenient place to charge at home or at work EV's are completely doable right now.... charging during time you are doing other productive things negates the "road-trip" charging disadvantage.

It's certainly possible to rent a cushy ICE vehicle for road-trips and use the EV for everything else.

 

[vi edit]

About that $50K:

The Kelley Blue Book new-vehicle ATP increased to $48,182 in July 2022, beating the previous high of $48,043 set last month. July prices rose 0.3% ($139) from June 2022 and 11.9% ($5,126) from July 2021.
Basically we are all screwed, ICE & EV buyers, if buying new.

No kidding. Just about everything is fucked sideways right now. Hell just regular gasser SUV's at Carmax are ridiculous.

 

[Captante]

About that $50K:

The Kelley Blue Book new-vehicle ATP increased to $48,182 in July 2022, beating the previous high of $48,043 set last month. July prices rose 0.3% ($139) from June 2022 and 11.9% ($5,126) from July 2021.
Basically we are all screwed, ICE & EV buyers, if buying new.

I've been shopping around on Car Guru for a friend that INSISTS on getting another Jeep (arrrgh!) so I know exactly what you mean! Used isn't much better either!

About 1.5 years ago I had to find a car for my daughter and prices were already high then but now they're substantially higher.

 

[Paratus]

However being forced to stop and charge is a 100% DIS-advantage for EV's.

Although provided you use an "EV-centric" navigation app and plan your trip at least partially around recharging the EV will eventually you get there.

The pollution and waste from ICE vehicles really sucks BUT I can walk outside to a car on "E" and be doing 75 on the highway with a full tank in less than 10 minutes. (and anywhere I go there will almost certainly be gasoline for sale)

Of course every non-trip day when I walk out to my EV it’s never on “E” so I don’t have to take 10 minutes out of my trip to go fill up. So that saves me about 30 5-10 minute fill ups a year at the cost of maybe 6 20 minute charges a year.

 

[Captante]

Of course every non-trip day when I walk out to my EV it’s never on “E” so I don’t have to take 10 minutes out of my trip to go fill up. So that saves me about 30 5-10 minute fill ups a year at the cost of maybe 6 20 minute charges a year.

Yep... as I've said several times now if you can charge at home or at the office regularly EV's are fully workable. (especially if it's an office "perk"!)

Going on a long road trip is still relatively inconvenient compared to a gas car no matter what "spin" you choose to go with though sorry. (also I fill up like twice a month lol... yes it "adds up" but it's not the same thing at all)

 

[Paratus]

No kidding. Just about everything is fucked sideways right now. Hell just regular gasser SUV's at Carmax are ridiculous.

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I've been shopping around on Car Guru for a friend that INSISTS on getting another Jeep (arrrgh!) so I know exactly what you mean! Used isn't much better either!

About 1.5 years ago I had to find a car for my daughter and prices were already high then but now they're substantially higher.

A year ago I sold my 2013 Subaru BRZ for $2K less than I paid for it used three years earlier.

I later saw Carmax list It for $6K more than I sold it for. That was an 8 year old $25K new car going for around $19K.

 

[Captante]

A year ago I sold my 2013 Subaru BRZ for $2K less than I paid for it used three years earlier.

I later saw Carmax list It for $6K more than I sold it for. That was an 8 year old $25K necar going for around $19K.

I believe it... the BRZ IS a bit of an extreme example though .... those and the discontinued Scion version are really in demand used.