Hate Mask and Vaccine Mandates? Just Wait For The Electric Cars

[drnickriviera]

here is the Washington state law regarding net metering. It is 1 to 1, no buying at wholesale and selling back to the consumer at retail.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=80.60.030

Our future PUD's fact sheet on net metering.
https://clallampud.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Net-Metering-Fact-Sheet.pdf
Please show me an example of a net metering scheme that works as you have stated.

TVA does. Old link but still relative, skip half way down for the real info. TVA actually stopped accepting new solar applications for a year or so. Believe they have started again. They used to offer very nice buyback rates around 20c/kwh. Now wholesale rate and you have to pay a monthly fee for the second meter.
NC maybe too Interesting thread. Some people from Cali chiming in on what they are paid. The first draft of the nem 3.0 regs in cali were met with a good bit of pushback. I haven't paid much attention to what has happened since.
Some general net metering info it links some info on nem 3.0 in cali

 

[drnickriviera]

Bi-direction wouldn't be to hard of a thing to add. Now that Ford has done it with the F-150 lightning I think that going forward more manufacturers are going to add in that capability.
Tesla is probably not going to be adding bi-direction anytime soon because it would compete against their Powerwall Product.

AFAIK it is mainly in the charger at home that does the work. It needs to be able to handle the high voltage DC direct from the pack, invert it and sync with the grid. I imagine it is more a software issue for the actual vehicle. I haven't seen any articles on if the f-150 does anything different

 

[skyking]

TVA does. Old link but still relative, skip half way down for the real info. TVA actually stopped accepting new solar applications for a year or so. Believe they have started again. They used to offer very nice buyback rates around 20c/kwh. Now wholesale rate and you have to pay a monthly fee for the second meter.
NC maybe too Interesting thread. Some people from Cali chiming in on what they are paid. The first draft of the nem 3.0 regs in cali were met with a good bit of pushback. I haven't paid much attention to what has happened since.
Some general net metering info it links some info on nem 3.0 in cali

Pursuant to the idea that some states are better than others this wiki page lists the policies by state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering_in_the_United_States
I wouldn't do it if it was not compensated at retail, as it is in several states including Washington.

 

[vi edit]

This weekend was about enough for me to start really thinking of adding a second car back into my fleet that's either a PHEV or traditional hybrid. Uhg.

Drove from Portland, OR to Bend, OR. It's about 150 miles. I charged up before leaving and got down to Bend with about 80 miles left on the tank. That part is fine. What isn't fine is that there was only one Level 3 in the town (Electrify America) and 3/4 stations were down. They couldn't fix them remotely. There was a line 4 cars deep and a couple of them were older EV's (Bolt for example) that have very slow charging rates. I would have to wait around for hours to get in line. Did some googling and found some level 2's from the local power company being serviced through charge point. I went over there, had to download and setup *another* account/app. And then proceeded to get 30kWh over the course of an hour for $12. It was enough to get us around the area for a day. But it took me two more trips over to the Electrify America station to finally find a working bay that wasn't occupied.

Eventually it worked out, but it was only because we weren't on a schedule or *needed* to get someplace before getting charged up.

It was frustrating. It was expensive. It was slow. If I had been trying out a demo product over weekend I wouldn't have bought an EV. Woof.

 

[Leeea]

second car back into my fleet that's either a PHEV

PHEV it up!

I have a PacHy and love it. Enough space in the back for a 4'x'8 sheet of plywood. Enough climate control for 7 people. Openpilot/comma.ai for "self driving". Run it around most days on all electric, but drive cross country twice a year at 80 mph for nearly all the way. It is especially good in mountains.

 

[Captante]

It was frustrating. It was expensive. It was slow. If I had been trying out a demo product over weekend I wouldn't have bought an EV. Woof.

Since I only have one car for myself I wouldn't consider a pure EV yet only a hybrid. (MAYBE plug-in)

I will however consider a small electric motorcycle for local trips when they're more widely available.

 

[Paratus]

This weekend was about enough for me to start really thinking of adding a second car back into my fleet that's either a PHEV or traditional hybrid. Uhg.

Drove from Portland, OR to Bend, OR. It's about 150 miles. I charged up before leaving and got down to Bend with about 80 miles left on the tank. That part is fine. What isn't fine is that there was only one Level 3 in the town (Electrify America) and 3/4 stations were down. They couldn't fix them remotely. There was a line 4 cars deep and a couple of them were older EV's (Bolt for example) that have very slow charging rates. I would have to wait around for hours to get in line. Did some googling and found some level 2's from the local power company being serviced through charge point. I went over there, had to download and setup *another* account/app. And then proceeded to get 30kWh over the course of an hour for $12. It was enough to get us around the area for a day. But it took me two more trips over to the Electrify America station to finally find a working bay that wasn't occupied.

Eventually it worked out, but it was only because we weren't on a schedule or *needed* to get someplace before getting charged up.

It was frustrating. It was expensive. It was slow. If I had been trying out a demo product over weekend I wouldn't have bought an EV. Woof.

For longer trips I’ve seen similar stories about issues with the EA network.

It’s one area where Tesla does have a significant advantage. There are 10 superchargers stations within 50 miles of me and each one has 8-16 superchargers.

Even while traveling through more remote areas each station has had at least 6 superchargers. A lot less problem with finding them full or broken.

I do want to see some competition in level 3 networks as the $/kWh some charge is getting ridiculous - 3-4 times what it costs to charge at home.

 

[vi edit]

Yeah it's really a problem a handful of times a year. 360 days a year I have a level 2 at home and never need a public charger and it works perfectly. It's long weekend trips, and anything more interstate based that things become a bit more of a gamble. Especially if you are in more desolate areas that are literal charging deserts.

 

[K1052]

This weekend was about enough for me to start really thinking of adding a second car back into my fleet that's either a PHEV or traditional hybrid. Uhg.

Drove from Portland, OR to Bend, OR. It's about 150 miles. I charged up before leaving and got down to Bend with about 80 miles left on the tank. That part is fine. What isn't fine is that there was only one Level 3 in the town (Electrify America) and 3/4 stations were down. They couldn't fix them remotely. There was a line 4 cars deep and a couple of them were older EV's (Bolt for example) that have very slow charging rates. I would have to wait around for hours to get in line. Did some googling and found some level 2's from the local power company being serviced through charge point. I went over there, had to download and setup *another* account/app. And then proceeded to get 30kWh over the course of an hour for $12. It was enough to get us around the area for a day. But it took me two more trips over to the Electrify America station to finally find a working bay that wasn't occupied.

Eventually it worked out, but it was only because we weren't on a schedule or *needed* to get someplace before getting charged up.

It was frustrating. It was expensive. It was slow. If I had been trying out a demo product over weekend I wouldn't have bought an EV. Woof.

The level 3 charging networks for non-Tesla EVs are really a problem.

 

[Captante]

If you own multiple cars I can see the wisdom in owning an EV.

Technically I could do it now considering how little I drive but the truth is that even a "bottom-feeder" ICE car is still a lot more convenient for road-trips then any EV in the real world. (a place many Tesla owners are unfamiliar with ROTFL)

Reality is that the "Super-Charger" network is now Tesla's ONLY major advantage after they frittered away the MAJOR head-start they had on every other car-company with EV's.

 

[vi edit]

While I was attempting to wait one of the times, there was an extended range Lightning with 15% charge starting to refill. That's going to be a looooooooong charge.
I talked to a guy from CA and he said public charging is a shit show there. Tesla is the only one doing anything for infrastructure. It's going to take some major shift from say Shell or other big chains to start building out public charging infrastructure that's affordable, accessible, and reliable.

 

[K1052]

If you own multiple cars I can see the wisdom in owning an EV.

Technically I could do it now considering how little I drive but the truth is that even a "bottom-feeder" ICE car is still a lot more convenient for road-trips then any EV in the real world. (a place many Tesla owners are unfamiliar with ROTFL)

Reality is that the "Super-Charger" network is now Tesla's ONLY major advantage after they frittered away the MAJOR head-start they had on every other car-company on EV's.

Whatever my complaints about Tesla their charging network has never been a problem for us. The worst thing that's happened is we might've gotten a slow charger (like only around 50kw) a couple times but just moving to a different stall has fixed that. Have never shown up to a full site but I know it can happen under certain circumstances.

 

[Captante]

And California is about the BEST in the US for EV's you would think!

Connecticut has far more in the way of EV-ready infrastructure then most places and charging without a "home or office-base" setup here is a joke.

Some I-95 rest areas have had "Superchargers" for years now and they are around elsewhere too (apparently at random lol!) but it's still a PITA.

 

[Captante]

Whatever my complaints about Tesla their charging network has never been a problem for us. The worst thing that's happened is we might've gotten a slow charger (like only around 50kw) a couple times but just moving to a different stall has fixed that. Have never shown up to a full site but I know it can happen under certain circumstances.

The problem is that while Tesla has done more than anyone else for EV charging it's still only a drop in the bucket.

Tesla has not done anything meaningful overall when they easily could have pretty close to cornered the market by franchising "fast-charge" stations and pushing out an entry-level affordable EV. (even as a "loss-leader")

Now the actual CAR-ONLY companies are rapidly catching up and I suspect their many decades of experience building profitable CARS will be what brings EV's mainstream not Tesla.

 

[kt]

And California is about the BEST in the US for EV's you would think!

Connecticut has far more in the way of EV-ready infrastructure then most places and charging without a "home or office-base" setup here is a joke.

Some I-95 rest areas have had "Superchargers" for years now and they are around (apparently at random lol!) but it's still a PITA.

It really depends on where you are in CA, it's a huge state and there are areas of the state where they are outright hostile to EV drivers. But I agree, CA should do more to improve EV charging infrastructure.

 

[K1052]

The problem is that while Tesla has done more than anyone else for EV charging it's only a drop in the bucket.

Tesla has not done anything meaningful when they easily could have pretty close to cornered the market by franchising "fast-charge" stations and pushing out an entry-level affordable EV. (even as a "loss-leader")

Now the actual CAR-ONLY companies are rapidly catching up and I suspect their many decades of experience building profitable CARS will be what brings EV's mainstream not Tesla.

Tesla has said they're going to open the US network to non-Tesla vehicles. Apparently they are updating their production chargers to mount CCS connectors.

Most of their sites have a healthy amount of room to add more stalls so existing Tesla customers should not be impacted.

 

[Captante]

Tesla has said they're going to open the US network to non-Tesla vehicles. Apparently they are updating their production chargers to mount CCS connectors.

Most of their sites have a healthy amount of room to add more stalls so existing Tesla customers should not be impacted.

Not around here they don't.... they'll need to open a bunch of new ones outside of the wealthy areas in Fairfield County and I'll believe that when I see it since Tesla doesn't currently serve those folks.

 

[K1052]

Not around here they don't.... they'll need to open a bunch of new ones outside of the wealthy areas in Fairfield County and I'll believe that when I see it since Tesla doesn't currently serve those folks.

At least out here they seem to have done a lot of deals with Target. Some are in well to do areas, some in extremely average suburbia. The sites I've seen could expand by 2 or 3 times without impacting their parking.

I do wish hotel chains would get cracking on L2 destination charging. Like we'll pay for it but put in more than a single Chargepoint pole.

 

[Brovane]

The problem is that while Tesla has done more than anyone else for EV charging it's still only a drop in the bucket.

Tesla has not done anything meaningful overall when they easily could have pretty close to cornered the market by franchising "fast-charge" stations and pushing out an entry-level affordable EV. (even as a "loss-leader")

Now the actual CAR-ONLY companies are rapidly catching up and I suspect their many decades of experience building profitable CARS will be what brings EV's mainstream not Tesla.

Since Tesla was losing money and needed to become profitable to survive how would have pushing out a entry-level car as a loss-leader worked for them as a good business decision? Tesla doesn't have profitable ICE car sales to fall back on.

 

[Brovane]

This weekend was about enough for me to start really thinking of adding a second car back into my fleet that's either a PHEV or traditional hybrid. Uhg.

Drove from Portland, OR to Bend, OR. It's about 150 miles. I charged up before leaving and got down to Bend with about 80 miles left on the tank. That part is fine. What isn't fine is that there was only one Level 3 in the town (Electrify America) and 3/4 stations were down. They couldn't fix them remotely. There was a line 4 cars deep and a couple of them were older EV's (Bolt for example) that have very slow charging rates. I would have to wait around for hours to get in line. Did some googling and found some level 2's from the local power company being serviced through charge point. I went over there, had to download and setup *another* account/app. And then proceeded to get 30kWh over the course of an hour for $12. It was enough to get us around the area for a day. But it took me two more trips over to the Electrify America station to finally find a working bay that wasn't occupied.

Eventually it worked out, but it was only because we weren't on a schedule or *needed* to get someplace before getting charged up.

It was frustrating. It was expensive. It was slow. If I had been trying out a demo product over weekend I wouldn't have bought an EV. Woof.

What about the L3 Enphase Energy EV chargers in Downtown Bend? https://www.plugshare.com/location/220414
Unfortunately right now if you don't have a Tesla. Any road-trip in a EV requires careful planning.

 

[Captante]

Since Tesla was losing money and needed to become profitable to survive how would have pushing out a entry-level car as a loss-leader worked for them as a good business decision? Tesla doesn't have profitable ICE car sales to fall back on.

It might not have been profitable initially however assuming they survived it would have created an entire class of EV's that is now 100% owned by the competition.

Long-term I think that's going to backfire.

 

[Captante]

At least out here they seem to have done a lot of deals with Target. Some are in well to do areas, some in extremely average suburbia. The sites I've seen could expand by 2 or 3 times without impacting their parking.

I do wish hotel chains would get cracking on L2 destination charging. Like we'll pay for it but put in more than a single Chargepoint pole.

That would be nice... I literally never see those lots more than half-full except on black friday!

 

[Brovane]

It might not have been profitable initially however assuming they survived it would have created an entire class of EV's that is now 100% owned by the competition.

Long-term I think that's going to backfire.

No that wouldn't have worked because as a startup Tesla needed to become profitable and didn't know how to build cars at high volume. Tesla had enough issues just trying to ramp-up production on the Model 3. What class of EV's is 100% owned by the competition? The low volume sales class?

 

[vi edit]

What about the L3 Enphase Energy EV chargers in Downtown Bend? https://www.plugshare.com/location/220414
Unfortunately right now if you don't have a Tesla. Any road-trip in a EV requires careful planning.

That's the exact one I did end up using. Look at how long I charged and how much it cost vs the EA station once I was able to get into it.

I did plan. I knew there was an EA station in Bend. I planned to get there with around 80 miles of range in the event I needed to do some running around. Planning means some base expectations are set. One of my expectations was not having to revisit a high speed charger 3 times before finally getting a chance to use it.

If airlines said you had a 75% chance of not getting a seat but come anyway to try and fly it would be the end of modern air travel as we know it.

 

[Brainonska511]

At least out here they seem to have done a lot of deals with Target. Some are in well to do areas, some in extremely average suburbia. The sites I've seen could expand by 2 or 3 times without impacting their parking.

From my perspective, if we are going to keep building autocentric infrastructure, at least putting chargers in existing parking lots makes sense. We shouldn't be looking to follow the gas station model for electric charging. Plop down chargers in the lots of places people will be stopping for 10-60 minutes.