Harry Reid uses the 'nuclear option'

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0
So, uhh, what would you suggest that Dems put on the tee for Repubs to swat out in the weeds?

If you're being honest at all, you need to recognize that's what will happen...

I suspect that the final form of the bill will clarify that, after everybody puts their cards on the table. Right now, McConnell is trying to deal three card monte...

TBH, it isn't clear to me how much either party really gives a damn about the country now. This has been true to varying degrees in the past, but it's even more painfully obvious right now. Probably the dems "care" more but only because improving the economy is in their electoral interests. I doubt they'd be much better than the repubs if the situation was reversed. And there's also the fact that they know this legislation will not pass making this whole thing a political stunt, and then of course the repubs will never let anything pass to benefit the economy. It's 100% political theater, what is going on right now and literally nothing else. It's so disgusting it's not even clear that it's worth paying much attention to any of it.

- wolf
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
TBH, it isn't clear to me how much either party really gives a damn about the country now. This has been true to varying degrees in the past, but it's even more painfully obvious right now. Probably the dems "care" more but only because improving the economy is in their electoral interests. I doubt they'd be much better than the repubs if the situation was reversed. And there's also the fact that they know this legislation will not pass making this whole thing a political stunt, and then of course the repubs will never let anything pass to benefit the economy. It's 100% political theater, what is going on right now and literally nothing else. It's so disgusting it's not even clear that it's worth paying much attention to any of it.

- wolf

I think you're being defeatist, and unfairly attack Dems. Dems have never resorted to the level of obstructionism employed by today's Repubs. They went along with Dubya's 2001 taxcuts when it was the best they could get, figuring it as better than nothing. They confirmed his nominees with only selective resistance so he could run the govt. They confirmed 195 judicial appointments, before attempting to block only 8, filling the gaps left by Repub obstructionism during the Clinton years. The list goes on from there. They want the govt to function, to serve the people.

It is political theatre atm, but don't miss the moral of the story- Dems would pass a jobs bill given the chance, and they'd raise taxes at the top to pay for it, too.

Reid is just trying to make that clear to everybody.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Speaking of all over the place... you're there, pal.

The notion that spending money to hire people to do work with purchased materials won't provide some stimulus is delusional...

But you already know that, even as you attempt to perform a rhetorical pirouette on the head of a pin...
Where is that money coming from though??

We are borrowing it which means we are risking our long term growth in order to produce some short term results.

Also, the first stimulus showed without a doubt that government created jobs are insanely expensive. $600+ billion in spending for 3 million jobs, many of which went away when the money went away.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
That doesn't mean they can't get 50 votes also it takes 61 votes to break an inevitable Republican filibuster.

This isn't about a filibuster. The Senate repubs moved to vote on the bill as Obama handed it to them. Political positioning? Yes. But what is Oblame doing these days? Preemptively blaming the repubs for the envitable failure of his bill. It shows how little faith he has in it. So then why did he propose it?

Obama never stopped campaigning. He was sworn into office and continued the campaign. The Solyndra thing shows that - he won't admit he might have been wrong...all he gives a damn about is 2012.

Proj John is getting the point right here. Reid blocked the vote simply to protect Obama and the democratic party from looking like idiots. They're hoping to pin the blame on the repubs for a bad bill. I mean, what if they do vote on it, and it fails? They then skip all the BS positioning they're doing now and move to finding some compromise. Instead they're voting on...NOT jobs.

Hell they ran on Jobs,Jobs and more Jobs!

When unemployment is a over 9%??? LMAO I call that not having not having a clue on how to fix the problem .

Guess what: Reagan's administration created MILLIONS of jobs without a job bill. During Clinton's term, Gingrich and Clinton agreed on a capital gains tax cut which directly lead to there being a surplus as business surged. Better, jobs were created.

The dems seem to believe that 50% of nothing is better than 25% of something. Heavily tax capital gains and discourage businesses from hording tons of cash and what will they do? Find loopholes, and more importantly, keep the money and assets offshore...which means jobs stay off shore. Make the US friendly towards corporations and, my god they may actually bring jobs back to the US.

Fail. This is a bill that the Democrats supposedly believe will stop the burning. The Republicans are saying "Fine, let's vote on it." Instead of calling their bluff, the Democrats are saying "No no no, we have lots more fiddling to do."

The bill is a turd as written. Democrats up for reelection can't be seen to vote for it, yet the only thing on which Democrats can campaign is Republican obstructionism. So the Democrats have to prevent a vote at all costs, at least until they make it so abominably worse that Democrats can safely vote for it knowing Republicans can't chance voting for it. That puts Democrats in the awkward position of having to obstruct whilst also blaming the Republicans for being obstructionist. They know their Yellow Dog Democrats will take whatever they dump on them, but they must really be sweating whether or not independents are so vapidly ignorant as to buy this juggling act.


No, no, no. Compromise is when Democrats write a bill behind closed doors, Republicans vote for it, and then Democrats blame Republicans for the bill being most suitable for fertilizer.

We've endured the the previous congress forcing obamacare down our damned throats. They skipped reconciling the bill. Obama proclaimed the bill would be debated IN THE OPEN. ON CSPAN. In the end, Obama publicly ordered the bill to be forced through behind closed door. Reid's move simply shows nothing has changed. They're still willing to force things. If I had some control over the next congress, I'd start finding loopholes for this nonsense and remove them. Same as redoing the interstate commerce clause to further limit the federal government's meddling.

But you're right, werepossum. This is an admission that the dems know the bill cannot pass in its current state and needs a massive overhaul.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
How is this so-called "nuclear option" even allowed to happen in the first place?

Second, read my sig. Politicians can NOT and do NOT create jobs, not the ones that matter (private sector jobs). Government jobs don't count as the majority of them really don't help the economy as they are just consuming more from the economy, not driving it.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
This isn't about a filibuster. The Senate repubs moved to vote on the bill as Obama handed it to them. Political positioning? Yes. But what is Oblame doing these days? Preemptively blaming the repubs for the envitable failure of his bill. It shows how little faith he has in it. So then why did he propose it?

Obama never stopped campaigning. He was sworn into office and continued the campaign. The Solyndra thing shows that - he won't admit he might have been wrong...all he gives a damn about is 2012.


So you must be in the same camp as PJ believing that the Republicans are bending over backwards to comprise with this President? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Everyone knows that President Obama is running AGAINST the do nothing Congress and it doesn't take much research to realize how ineffective the 112th Congress is.
 
Last edited:

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
I think you're being defeatist, and unfairly attack Dems. Dems have never resorted to the level of obstructionism employed by today's Repubs. They went along with Dubya's 2001 taxcuts when it was the best they could get, figuring it as better than nothing. They confirmed his nominees with only selective resistance so he could run the govt. They confirmed 195 judicial appointments, before attempting to block only 8, filling the gaps left by Repub obstructionism during the Clinton years. The list goes on from there. They want the govt to function, to serve the people.

It is political theatre atm, but don't miss the moral of the story- Dems would pass a jobs bill given the chance, and they'd raise taxes at the top to pay for it, too.

Reid is just trying to make that clear to everybody.

The most hilarious part is that the rabid Right Wing on this forum are crying foul when this shit goes on in Congress ALL THE TIME. LOL
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
That doesn't mean they can't get 50 votes also it takes 61 votes to break an inevitable Republican filibuster.

Read my posts or don't hit the reply button.


This isn't about a filibuster. The Senate repubs moved to vote on the bill as Obama handed it to them. Political positioning? Yes. But what is Oblame doing these days? Preemptively blaming the repubs for the envitable failure of his bill. It shows how little faith he has in it. So then why did he propose it?

Late edit:

But do I want them to bend over? No. I want them to stand firm. I want them to show that a jobs bill isn't the answer. You treat the source, not the symptom. The symptom is jobs, the source is the US does not encourage businesses spend, but rather to horde and move offshore. And obama needs to get back to his fucking job. This isn't campaign time, it's time to do some WORK. Hell, having sex with an intern would be an improvement, he'd actually be in the white house.
 
Last edited:

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Where is that money coming from though??

We are borrowing it which means we are risking our long term growth in order to produce some short term results.

Also, the first stimulus showed without a doubt that government created jobs are insanely expensive. $600+ billion in spending for 3 million jobs, many of which went away when the money went away.

The proposal includes tax modifications to partially offset spending. Exactly what, I don't know. The revised version will likely have more.

~1/3 of the earlier $787B stimulus package actually went directly to jobs. ~1/3 went to tax cuts, particularly wrt AMT, and ~1/3 went to extended UI benefits.

Obviously, a lot of profit for contractors was created in order to create jobs, and for their suppliers, too. Infrastructure is expensive, which is where a great deal of the jobs money went.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
So you must be in the same camp as PJ believing that the Republicans are bending over backwards to comprise with this President? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Everyone knows that President Obama is running AGAINST the do nothing Congress and it doesn't take much research to realize how ineffective the 112th Congress is.
Tough to run against the do nothing congress when it is his own party blocking votes.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Tough to run against the do nothing congress when it is his own party blocking votes.

Tough when a congress is split with no one directing them. Do I want obamacare repealed? Yeah. You know what'd help fix healthcare? Tort reform. There's plenty to DO, but when the house is dominated by one party, and the senate by another, how the hell do you get stuff done? When the two sides are polar opposites...

To be fair to Reid, he couldn't win this. Either allow a vote that would fail, showing the dems didn't back their own president, or block the vote and give the repubs ammunition to say "we tried to do something, they blocked US."
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Republicans want a vote so they can show the American people that even the Democrats don't fully support the Obama bill.

After that they can work together on the parts that both sides can agree with and there are parts of the bill that will most likely pass and become law.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Republicans want a vote so they can show the American people that even the Democrats don't fully support the Obama bill.

After that they can work together on the parts that both sides can agree with and there are parts of the bill that will most likely pass and become law.

Not the parts that will do any good wrt jobs, just the parts that were designed to sweeten it up for special interests...

Repubs' idea of a jobs bill is to eliminate corporate taxes, offset the lost revenues with cut, cut, cut!

That'll obviously create a lot of jobs, huh?

The doublespeak is magnificent.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Not the parts that will do any good wrt jobs, just the parts that were designed to sweeten it up for special interests...

Repubs' idea of a jobs bill is to eliminate corporate taxes, offset the lost revenues with cut, cut, cut!

That'll obviously create a lot of jobs, huh?

The doublespeak is magnificent.

You mean cut capital gains taxes? You mean what WORKED when Reagan was in office? You mean what lead to the surplus during the Clinton administration?

50% of nothing is NOT better than 25% of something. More taxes are NOT in order. Hey, how about something like tax breaks for companies hiring?
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
Tough to run against the do nothing congress when it is his own party blocking votes.

Like I said 60 times before this is business as usual in the Senate sorry you can't grasp and I am sure your party is going to push the same shit your shoveling in here to the ignorant sheep in the Republican party.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
Republicans want a vote so they can show the American people that even the Democrats don't fully support the Obama bill.

After that they can work together on the parts that both sides can agree with and there are parts of the bill that will most likely pass and become law.

It's hard to fathom how ridiculous this statement is..but I'll give it a try ;)


1)Ok for the first part of your reply you do realize that the Senate has substantially changed the bill compared to the original form that President Obama submitted?

2) It's obvious if you knew anything about the Democratic party that they are still hammering out the details and they may need to soften some of the legislation to appease the Blue Dog Democrats.

3)Democrats don't march in Lockstep like Republicans do so this makes your statement even more idiotic.

Oh if you take the time to read all the posts above many forum members have also brought up these points too but I am sure it still won't change your Republican mind.


After that they can work together on the parts that both sides can agree with and there are parts of the bill that will most likely pass and become law.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA X 10 to the 100th power If the Republican's give the President a win on this one I better be sitting down when I read those headlines. Since the Republican field of candidates for POTUS are so pathetic it's definitely in the Republican's best interest to do everything they can to bring down President Obama at the expense of the countries needs.
 
Last edited:

jstern01

Senior member
Mar 25, 2010
532
0
71
So it looks like Harry Reid was afraid of being embarrassed by forcing a vote on the Obama jobs bill so he went nuclear.

So Obama is going around the country talking about how his bill needs to be passed, but his own party won't let anyone vote on the thing....

Finally he grew a pair. About time the fucking Senate stop this crap. Now they need to change the rule about one senator putting holds on bills and move to simple majority to break filibusters.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
Finally he grew a pair. About time the fucking Senate stop this crap. Now they need to change the rule about one senator putting holds on bills and move to simple majority to break filibusters.

McConnell LOVES the Filibuster I am looking forward to see him whine like the chinless fuck he is when the show is on the other foot.