GOP Debate #1

[Subyman]

Watched the entire thing last night and gave it some time to sink in. I don't come to these debates to see a "smack down" or for gotcha moments. I looked for a legitimate candidate that seemed genuine and actually had policy to back up what they were talking about. The only three that seemed to have a whiff of being sincere are Kasich, Bush and Carson. Carson said a few generic statements, but overall I think he would approach the White House as a collaborative leader where he'd put the right people in position and take their recommendations. Bush actually talked about some specifics of his immigration policy and how he would use immigration to bolster the economy. I think this is a good angle. Kasich seemed like a nice man but I didn't hear much policy out of him.

Rubio and Cruz said a bunch of stuff but it all seemed empty and rehearsed. Walker was lackluster and seemed not to be very confident in himself. Paul was like a chihuahua and was more worried about attacking and making noise than saying anything of substance. Chris wasn't bad, in fact, he was better than I remembered him. Still abrasive, but toned down. I'm still not a fan.

Then there's Trump. Before the debate started I mentioned that I was curious to see how he does in a group of men that have debated their entire life. Most politicians begin debate classes in high school and are experts at turning words and spinning. Trump has always been in a power position when he spouts off. His normal comments taken by themselves are harsh, but when you put him right next to others that are much more level headed and typical of a politician he looks like a chid flailing at anything that moves. His hard words are hollow and childish. It became extremely obvious that he has zero policy to back up his mouth and did not know much of anything about foreign policy. Such as his comment about Japanese car manufacturers importing a lot of cars in the US and that being a bad thing. The fact is most "Japanese" cars are built in the US (91% of hondas are built in the US.) So that problem is absolutely been noticed and has been largely addressed beginning in the 80's. His discussion about bankruptcy being something he is proud of was strange since we can't use that tactic for our government. Going into Atlantic city, grabbing investor cash, pocketing a ton of money, and then running for the hills before the entire thing sinks may be a "pro" business move, but its that kind of wonton self interest that put us into the 2008 crash. He doesn't deserve to be anywhere near government.

Lastly if Romney got beat up over "binders full of women" then Trump should be destroyed for his comments.

 

[Brainonska511]

You know, if it wouldn't hand Republicans full control of Washington, I'd have no problem voting for Kasich. He just exemplifies competence and decency.

I wonder when he'll be crucified for expanding Medicaid in Ohio.

 

[Jaskalas]

• Too many people on stage, it wasn't a debate.
• Rarely did more than 2 people get to answer any one question or topic.
• Therefore few differences were highlighted and very little debate over whose policy is better.
• Moreover, multiple "questions" were simply attacks on Trump.

To reiterate, the moderators got to speak MUCH more than any candidate.
If it was supposed to be a debate, it was a failure.
Instead it was a highly successful dog and pony show.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yeah, the whole b-52/navy/air force thing is ridiculous. I just shook my head and was amazed that anybody would say something so stupid and inane.

I think his point had already been refuted by members of the JCS or some analysts: the number of battleships now, for projecting force adequately, are apples to the oranges of yesteryear.

And -- stupid and inane -- various pundits, party-loyalists and TP "political innovators" were calling for an increase in the defense budget when it was higher than maybe $800 billion. I watched Obama's stats: as he said yesterday, it's about $600 billion now.

Folks who gather in the Carlyle Group or its successor make a lot of money on defense projects.

The taxpayer was first raped and then mollified by tax decreases from March, 2003 forward. The military was abused, before and after they provided better Kevlar and armor plate to the military vehicles.

 

[Blackjack200]

Carson said a few generic statements, but overall I think he would approach the White House as a collaborative leader where he'd put the right people in position and take their recommendations.

Which is one of the worst things you can do. Washington is full of entrenched, rotten old interests that grab a hold of new politicians and scare them into doing their bidding. Do you think that Bush came into office wanting to go to war with Iraq or have the NSA start spying on everyone? Do you think Obama was lying when he promised to close Guantanamo and make government more transparent?

I don't. I think they got into office, and they were bombarded with people that told them all kinds of scary stories about the imminent threats the country faced, and how we're all gonna die (and it will be their fault) if they don't do X, Y, and Z.

Getting anything accomplished in Washington at this point will take a hell of an in-fighter. Someone who is really tied in, and has lots of contacts, and lots of experience.

 

[Jhhnn]

You know, if it wouldn't hand Republicans full control of Washington, I'd have no problem voting for Kasich. He just exemplifies competence and decency.

Which, by today's standards, makes him a RINO.

If you're not sporting a stiffy wrt a variety of issues, you're not much of a Republican.

 

[LegendKiller]

• Too many people on stage, it wasn't a debate.
• Rarely did more than 2 people get to answer any one question or topic.
• Therefore few differences were highlighted and very little debate over whose policy is better.
• Moreover, multiple "questions" were simply attacks on Trump.

To reiterate, the moderators got to speak MUCH more than any candidate.
If it was supposed to be a debate, it was a failure.
Instead it was a highly successful dog and pony show.

No, it wasn't a successful dog and pony show. It was an unsuccessful attempt at trying to crown Jeb or Rubio and get rid of everybody else they didn't like. They knew Rand would come out as a nutter but most importantly that Trump could be torn down as a "War on women" misogynist.

Instead, I think Trump is going to come out better. Why? Because it was a ham-fisted and overly blatant attack that only shows that he is right, billionaires have way too much control and even Fox News is nothing but an outlet for Murdoch.

The aftermath was even more telling, from Hume's "He didn't look gentlemanly" to Krauthammer's bullshit and then the idiot's "focus group" where he looks like weird-ass fucking slob who couldn't even get his tie right and his suit jacket was 6" too short. The whole thing was an attack-trump circle jerk.

What's hilarious is that goldilocks wanted to spar with the big boys but pretended to be a damsel in distress, rather than just holding her own. You'd expect that type of shit from the left. But what it really just shows is that they'll rip a page out of the left's handbook to tear down anybody that isn't Bush.

I still think Walker's zing about Billery's email server was the best line of the night.

 

[MongGrel]

He MUST run as an independent if GOP doesn't nominate him. This MUST not stop with the primaries.

He's stirring up a lot of crap at any rate.

 

[MongGrel]

Which is one of the worst things you can do. Washington is full of entrenched, rotten old interests that grab a hold of new politicians and scare them into doing their bidding. Do you think that Bush came into office wanting to go to war with Iraq

Bush actually did come into office wanting to be a "War President" I believe.

 

[Jhhnn]

Which is one of the worst things you can do. Washington is full of entrenched, rotten old interests that grab a hold of new politicians and scare them into doing their bidding. Do you think that Bush came into office wanting to go to war with Iraq or have the NSA start spying on everyone? Do you think Obama was lying when he promised to close Guantanamo and make government more transparent?

I don't. I think they got into office, and they were bombarded with people that told them all kinds of scary stories about the imminent threats the country faced, and how we're all gonna die (and it will be their fault) if they don't do X, Y, and Z.

Getting anything accomplished in Washington at this point will take a hell of an in-fighter. Someone who is really tied in, and has lots of contacts, and lots of experience.

It's unfair to pin Gitmo on Obama. It's still a prison by the will of Congress. It's not like he brought it into existence, either.

If he defied Congress, brought the prisoners to this country, tore down the prison complex, loaded the debris on barges & dumped it in deep water off the continental shelf & turned the place over to Cuba it'd all be in the interests of this country.

 

[Jhhnn]

Getting anything accomplished in Washington at this point will take a hell of an in-fighter. Someone who is really tied in, and has lots of contacts, and lots of experience.

Hell, yes! Hillary!

 

[Fern]

Why should we spoil your progressive circle jerk? Looks like your having fun with each other. Maybe get a room.

Yup.

Fern

 

[Fern]

historically, VP's have never been very useful in "delivering" states that the Presidential candidate wouldn't have won anyways... if anything, Fiorina would at least provide an attack dog against Hillary (if she's the Democratic nominee) who wouldn't be as easy to brand as a sexist as a male candidate.

Agree with both points.

Fern

 

[Fern]

• Too many people on stage, it wasn't a debate.
• Rarely did more than 2 people get to answer any one question or topic.
• Therefore few differences were highlighted and very little debate over whose policy is better.
• Moreover, multiple "questions" were simply attacks on Trump.

To reiterate, the moderators got to speak MUCH more than any candidate.
If it was supposed to be a debate, it was a failure.
Instead it was a highly successful dog and pony show.

Yep.

It struck me as just another example of the media trying to make themselves the story, the center of attention. The news industry here in the USA is just awful.

Fern

 

[sportage]

This has probably been said already, but Fox is touting the highest debate ratings of any debate EVER.
But who's kidding who?
Everyone knows why 10 million tuned in. To see Donald Trump unload.
If Trump were not there or if he drops out, does anyone really believe a fraction of a fraction of 10 million will give a rats ass about any of those remaining?
People love a fight and this was a fight, Trump style.
Compared to all the rest up there, Trump actually looked pretty good.

 

[justoh]

They wouldn't let him run independently. They'd find a way to coerce him not to, or just kill him. Source? Your momma.

 

[Subyman]

Which is one of the worst things you can do. Washington is full of entrenched, rotten old interests that grab a hold of new politicians and scare them into doing their bidding. Do you think that Bush came into office wanting to go to war with Iraq or have the NSA start spying on everyone? Do you think Obama was lying when he promised to close Guantanamo and make government more transparent?

I don't. I think they got into office, and they were bombarded with people that told them all kinds of scary stories about the imminent threats the country faced, and how we're all gonna die (and it will be their fault) if they don't do X, Y, and Z.

Getting anything accomplished in Washington at this point will take a hell of an in-fighter. Someone who is really tied in, and has lots of contacts, and lots of experience.

Having a collaborative mindset is hardly one of the "worst things you can do." No person has a panopticon of the world. They need to put people that align with their philosophy in the right positions and then listen to them. I never said we need someone that shrivels under the pressure of Washington, so I don't know where you are getting that angle from. In my mind the worst person you can have in the white house is a person that believes everything they think is absolutely true and right, which is why Trump is a terrible candidate. Your last line sounds a heck of a lot like a collaborative person...

 

[cwjerome]

LOL at the people whining about Trump's treatment. That guy is a complete mess... hatchet job not found, it's called reality. The guy is a walking disaster, there's no way to avoid him looking terrible.

Walker and Cruz are car salesmen sleaze. Paul thinks it's 1776. Huckabee's moralism is gross. Carson is running an accidental campaign. Christie controlled himself. Bush was lukewarm but not bad. Rubio was polished with questionable facts, and Kasich was pretty good.

Early frontrunners NEVER win. Say hello to Bush-Clinton.

 

[MongGrel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOqtra7j6UM

Lame.

 

[justoh]

LOL at the people whining about Trump's treatment. That guy is a complete mess... hatchet job not found, it's called reality. The guy is a walking disaster, there's no way to avoid him looking terrible.

Walker and Cruz are car salesmen sleaze. Paul thinks it's 1776. Huckabee's moralism is gross. Carson is running an accidental campaign. Christie controlled himself. Bush was lukewarm but not bad. Rubio was polished with questionable facts, and Kasich was pretty good.

Early frontrunners NEVER win. Say hello to Bush-Clinton.

If you had watched the whole debate, and the kelly file, you would know that they definitely treated him unfairly. It was a coordinated strike to discredit him. They even had the booing scene queued for the kelly file intro. By the way, not everyone booed. It was cheer and then boo. There was also frank luntz or whatever, with his ridiculous panel, further pushing the idea that trump was a big loser.

Poor trump. He's not a great guy but neither are you for misjudging the situation. mexican much?

 

[werepossum]

Judging from ATPN, the debate wasn't much of a hit with people who might conceivably vote Republican.

 

[Jaskalas]

LOL at the people whining about Trump's treatment. That guy is a complete mess... hatchet job not found, it's called reality. The guy is a walking disaster, there's no way to avoid him looking terrible.

Bloomberg -"Fox News Couldn't Kill Trump’s Momentum"
It appears they came across as rather obvious.

As for Trump, I'd rather hear him pretend to care about policy and for others to speak for or against policy. Not to hear about Trump as Fox made him much of the focus.

The policy of the Republican party needs much correcting and much focus.
Last night did nothing to achieve that.

 

[shira]

Going into Atlantic city, grabbing investor cash, pocketing a ton of money, and then running for the hills before the entire thing sinks may be a "pro" business move, but its that kind of wonton self interest that put us into the 2008 crash. He doesn't deserve to be anywhere near government.

Lastly if Romney got beat up over "binders full of women" then Trump should be destroyed for his comments.

Successful politicians don't need to be "factual," not even remotely. You mentioned Trump's gross mischaracterization of the degree of responsibility that Japanese car manufacturers have for the loss of American manufacturing jobs. But almost none of those who find Trump appealing know now (nor will they ever know) any of the factual details.

What Trump's tirades offer to these people is catharsis. Most of his fans are unable to articulate why they're so dissatisfied with America in 2015, but Trump is able to provide them with symbolic examples - utterly inaccurate though they may be - that allow them to focus and release their feelings of discontent. I can almost hear them thinking to themselves, "Yeah, yeah! THAT'S why life is so hard for me!"

By the way, can you explain what this "wonton self interest" you mentioned is? Is that when a person goes to a Chinese restaurant with some friends, but scoops all of dumplings from the "family sized" bowl of soup for himself?

 

[Subyman]

Successful politicians don't need to be "factual," not even remotely. You mentioned Trump's gross mischaracterization of the degree of responsibility that Japanese car manufacturers have for the loss of American manufacturing jobs. But almost none of those who find Trump appealing know now (nor will they ever know) any of the factual details.

What Trump's tirades offer to these people is catharsis. Most of his fans are unable to articulate why they're so dissatisfied with America in 2015, but Trump is able to provide them with symbolic examples - utterly inaccurate though they may be - that allow them to focus and release their feelings of discontent. I can almost hear them thinking to themselves, "Yeah, yeah! THAT'S why life is so hard for me!"

By the way, can you explain what this "wonton self interest" you mentioned is? Is that when a person goes to a Chinese restaurant with some friends, but scoops all of dumplings from the "family sized" bowl of soup for himself?

Haha, wanton is what I meant

 

[Phokus]

LMAO