GM Stock death spiral

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: Ns1

fuck unions

Gee, that was intelligent.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: dbk
What happened to the $25B bailout that they got?

They won't see a dime for a few months

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle

Originally posted by: Ns1

fuck unions

Gee, that was intelligent.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

[Thegonagle]

Touché.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Time to be politically incorrect.

The reason US automakers are having a tough time is because of the U.A.W.

It's hard to be cost competitive with foreign companies when those companies do not pay outrageous pay rates and give wonderful benefits. The UAW did it to themselves.

Actually, it is the pay rates for non-skilled labor that killed the US auto industry (because of the UAW). Benefits are kind of a moot point.

The thing is that German and Japanese autoworkers get government pensions and health insurance. America having the worst healthcare system in the western world and relying on employers to pay for their workers' health insurance is an important factor in why American manufacturers can't compete.

Japanese get the same or better "benefits" as UAW autoworkers, but it is the Japanese government giving it to them.

What country has better healthcare?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Time to be politically incorrect.

The reason US automakers are having a tough time is because of the U.A.W.

It's hard to be cost competitive with foreign companies when those companies do not pay outrageous pay rates and give wonderful benefits. The UAW did it to themselves.

Actually, it is the pay rates for non-skilled labor that killed the US auto industry (because of the UAW). Benefits are kind of a moot point.

The thing is that German and Japanese autoworkers get government pensions and health insurance. America having the worst healthcare system in the western world and relying on employers to pay for their workers' health insurance is an important factor in why American manufacturers can't compete.

Japanese get the same or better "benefits" as UAW autoworkers, but it is the Japanese government giving it to them.

What country has better healthcare?

Cuba, they have free no cost universal healthcare for EVERYONE.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Time to be politically incorrect.

The reason US automakers are having a tough time is because of the U.A.W.

It's hard to be cost competitive with foreign companies when those companies do not pay outrageous pay rates and give wonderful benefits. The UAW did it to themselves.

Actually, it is the pay rates for non-skilled labor that killed the US auto industry (because of the UAW). Benefits are kind of a moot point.

The thing is that German and Japanese autoworkers get government pensions and health insurance. America having the worst healthcare system in the western world and relying on employers to pay for their workers' health insurance is an important factor in why American manufacturers can't compete.

Japanese get the same or better "benefits" as UAW autoworkers, but it is the Japanese government giving it to them.

You know Honda/Toyota have plants and shit in the US....right?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: robphelan
and it gets worse... GM is coming out with a Hybrid Escalade getting a whopping 14mpg.. and a new Hummer T3... i don't know what they're thinking.

Its actually 20/21. Not 14. 14 is what the regular ones get.

Hybrid SUVs are stupid though. All of them, no matter the manufacturer hover in the low 20s for gas mileage.

 

[Ns1]

On a slightly related note, just where the hell DID all the escalades, tahoes, expeditions, and excursions go?

used to see them everywhere now they are nowhere

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Nothing to do with their build quality, it was their poor decisions in the early 2000's. It's actually a good lesson in greed and poor leadership.

Around 2000, Toyota and Honda were switching to eco friendly cars because they had foreseen high gas prices (they have The Force or something). GM decided to run the SUV train to death...until it was too late to stop the train from going off the cliff.

$3 gas hit, and GM execs acted like they were shocked that people didn't want 12MPG SUV's anymore. So, instead of costly retooling and redesigns, they decided to offer rebates. Huge, amazing rebates---to the point where they were losing money on each vehicle sold.

The rebates made new GM vehicles cheaper to finance than used vehicles. Therefore, used GM vehicle prices took a nosedive. When this happens, lease buyouts (GM's big cash cow) took a huge hit.

Which leads us to early last year, where GM is stuck with products nobody wants, and has to accept lease returns for used vehicles they can't give away. They tried to increase sales with...you guessed it...MORE rebates. It didn't work, and they finally realized they were going to have to make efficient smaller cars. They decided to do expensive redesigns and retooling at a time when they had negative cash flow, hence the layoffs we're seeing now.

Today, they're having to retool more plants and pay workers overtime because they can't get enough Cobalts and Aveos on the market to keep up with demand. They have a product people actually want, and they can't make enough of the damn things.

Someone's going to write a book on this some day with the title "How to Screw Up a 100 Year Old Business".

you seem to think that designing cars and retooling factories can be done overnight.

If they had started back in 2000 they wouldn't be in this mess right now.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Ns1
On a slightly related note, just where the hell DID all the escalades, tahoes, expeditions, and excursions go?

used to see them everywhere now they are nowhere

They all in West LA

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Time to be politically incorrect.

The reason US automakers are having a tough time is because of the U.A.W.

It's hard to be cost competitive with foreign companies when those companies do not pay outrageous pay rates and give wonderful benefits. The UAW did it to themselves.

Actually, it is the pay rates for non-skilled labor that killed the US auto industry (because of the UAW). Benefits are kind of a moot point.

The thing is that German and Japanese autoworkers get government pensions and health insurance. America having the worst healthcare system in the western world and relying on employers to pay for their workers' health insurance is an important factor in why American manufacturers can't compete.

Japanese get the same or better "benefits" as UAW autoworkers, but it is the Japanese government giving it to them.

What country has better healthcare?

Pick a country in Europe. America PAYS MORE per capita and IS LESS HEALTHY by just about every metric. Our system is the laughingstock of the developed world.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: robphelan
and it gets worse... GM is coming out with a Hybrid Escalade getting a whopping 14mpg.. and a new Hummer T3... i don't know what they're thinking.

Its actually 20/21. Not 14. 14 is what the regular ones get.

Hybrid SUVs are stupid though. All of them, no matter the manufacturer hover in the low 20s for gas mileage.

while you're probably right that we should, as a society, be trying to make SUVs as indesirable as possible rather than making them easier to live with, a hybrid power system in an SUV saves more gas than a hybrid power system in a civic (last i checked, at least)

 

[StageLeft]

GM is freaking dead. The big 3 are toilets right now, if you buy their stocks it's akin to wiping your rear with money and flushing it. The fact that they convinced the gov to give them $25 b of our money that they won't be able to pay back is a tragedy. It's too late to short them, really, the cat's out of the bag. These dinosaurs are dying, they lose market share every year and how. Their costs are too high, their ingenuity too low, nobody is buying their cars. The only novel idea that GM has recently is the Volt, which is going to be a flop unless they can lobby for obscene tax breaks for buyers.

Its hard to see them going out of business.

Not so hard. They are hemorrhaging market share.

I suppose the big 3 may not outright die in the near future, probably be relegated to increasingly small segments, maybe make specialty vehicles as the bitch to some larger, competent business such as honda or toyota.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Time to be politically incorrect.

The reason US automakers are having a tough time is because of the U.A.W.

It's hard to be cost competitive with foreign companies when those companies do not pay outrageous pay rates and give wonderful benefits. The UAW did it to themselves.

Actually, it is the pay rates for non-skilled labor that killed the US auto industry (because of the UAW). Benefits are kind of a moot point.

The thing is that German and Japanese autoworkers get government pensions and health insurance. America having the worst healthcare system in the western world and relying on employers to pay for their workers' health insurance is an important factor in why American manufacturers can't compete.

Japanese get the same or better "benefits" as UAW autoworkers, but it is the Japanese government giving it to them.

What country has better healthcare?

Cuba, they have free no cost universal healthcare for EVERYONE.

The pathetic thing is that poor little Cuba is one of many, many countries with a healthcare system that is superior to the United States.

Oh, and universal health care is the NORM among DEMOCRACIES. America is the outlier, and we're sick because of it.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Fritzo
It's at 7.01 right now...if it goes below 7, I think that will be lower than when the company first went public---which was some years before Dwight D. Eisenhower was president.

I've only got like 20 shares, so no big deal, but it's interesting to watch history unfold on my desktop ticker

um.. GM is going to declare bankrupcy!

they've used up their $1B line of credit, and CAN'T GET MORE CREDIT!!!!!!!

Unless they magically become profitable, they are going to default on a few bills. (ie: employee paychecks.)

i predict GM will file chap 11 b4 Thanksgiving.

I highly doubt that.

They have about $24B in cash. They're not going bankrupt anytime soon, but they're going to be a LOT leaner.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle
How do I buy stock? Seriously?

Edit. Is E*Trade any good?

I've never done it before, because I've never had much extra money. It might be time for me to get started.

Scottrade.com. It's as easy as signing up for an Ebay account.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Time to be politically incorrect.

The reason US automakers are having a tough time is because of the U.A.W.

It's hard to be cost competitive with foreign companies when those companies do not pay outrageous pay rates and give wonderful benefits. The UAW did it to themselves.

Actually, it is the pay rates for non-skilled labor that killed the US auto industry (because of the UAW). Benefits are kind of a moot point.

The thing is that German and Japanese autoworkers get government pensions and health insurance. America having the worst healthcare system in the western world and relying on employers to pay for their workers' health insurance is an important factor in why American manufacturers can't compete.

Japanese get the same or better "benefits" as UAW autoworkers, but it is the Japanese government giving it to them.

What country has better healthcare?

Cuba, they have free no cost universal healthcare for EVERYONE.

The pathetic thing is that poor little Cuba is one of many, many countries with a healthcare system that is superior to the United States.

Oh, and universal health care is the NORM among DEMOCRACIES. America is the outlier, and we're sick because of it.

lol @ you

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Time to be politically incorrect.

The reason US automakers are having a tough time is because of the U.A.W.

It's hard to be cost competitive with foreign companies when those companies do not pay outrageous pay rates and give wonderful benefits. The UAW did it to themselves.

Actually, it is the pay rates for non-skilled labor that killed the US auto industry (because of the UAW). Benefits are kind of a moot point.

The thing is that German and Japanese autoworkers get government pensions and health insurance. America having the worst healthcare system in the western world and relying on employers to pay for their workers' health insurance is an important factor in why American manufacturers can't compete.

Japanese get the same or better "benefits" as UAW autoworkers, but it is the Japanese government giving it to them.

What country has better healthcare?

Cuba, they have free no cost universal healthcare for EVERYONE.

Yes Cuba, I see people from Canada and all over the world trying to get to Cuba for their healthcare.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Time to be politically incorrect.

The reason US automakers are having a tough time is because of the U.A.W.

It's hard to be cost competitive with foreign companies when those companies do not pay outrageous pay rates and give wonderful benefits. The UAW did it to themselves.

Actually, it is the pay rates for non-skilled labor that killed the US auto industry (because of the UAW). Benefits are kind of a moot point.

The thing is that German and Japanese autoworkers get government pensions and health insurance. America having the worst healthcare system in the western world and relying on employers to pay for their workers' health insurance is an important factor in why American manufacturers can't compete.

Japanese get the same or better "benefits" as UAW autoworkers, but it is the Japanese government giving it to them.

What country has better healthcare?

Cuba, they have free no cost universal healthcare for EVERYONE.

Yes Cuba, I see people from Canada and all over the world trying to get to Cuba for their healthcare.

Healthcare is better than having a job and running water!

 

[Xyclone]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ns1
On a slightly related note, just where the hell DID all the escalades, tahoes, expeditions, and excursions go?

used to see them everywhere now they are nowhere

They all in West LA

And the rest of So Cal. San Bernandino County seemed like hicksville when I traveled there a couple weeks ago for a friend's party. Trucks and SUV's everywhere.

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: Xyclone

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ns1
On a slightly related note, just where the hell DID all the escalades, tahoes, expeditions, and excursions go?

used to see them everywhere now they are nowhere

They all in West LA

And the rest of So Cal. San Bernandino County seemed like hicksville when I traveled there a couple weeks ago for a friend's party. Trucks and SUV's everywhere.

I don't really see them anymore in LA/OC. (at least not the caddy's, tahoe's, and excursions)

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you have crappy bloodsucking unions combined with shitty management.

FIXED

fixed further.

It is in no way the employees fault. If they got lazy, complacent and overpaid it's because of the deals between the union and management.

what is management supposed to do if the union extorts them to a deal and they can't just fire the union?

There are many companies that do just fine with unions.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Xyclone

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ns1
On a slightly related note, just where the hell DID all the escalades, tahoes, expeditions, and excursions go?

used to see them everywhere now they are nowhere

They all in West LA

And the rest of So Cal. San Bernandino County seemed like hicksville when I traveled there a couple weeks ago for a friend's party. Trucks and SUV's everywhere.

92 F-150s and suburbans don't count. we talking escalades with 22" spinners and denalis.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you have crappy bloodsucking unions combined with shitty management.

FIXED

fixed further.

It is in no way the employees fault. If they got lazy, complacent and overpaid it's because of the deals between the union and management.

what is management supposed to do if the union extorts them to a deal and they can't just fire the union?

There are many companies that do just fine with unions.

Was that supposed to be an answer?