GM Stock death spiral

[JS80]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
although you are incorrect in calling verizon a monopoly, i'll also mention Waste Management as another very successful company with organized labor. i won't bother finding others, as you will no doubt reply with "blah blah blah, laff"

someday, unions will be busted. then who will you blame all the problems of the world on?

you're comparing a specialty service company with localized monopolies to a global car company?

since when do i blame the problems of the world on unions?

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: JS80

lol you think prius is profitable and/or is even close to a meaningful contribution to toyota's total revenue base?

I live in TX and I see a prius almost every time I am out. This is in Dallas and Austin.

 

[tuteja1986]

wATCH MY HAPPY GO BUY :

STOCK : MSPDD



Date
Long Value
Short Value
Cash
Total Equity
Return


8/25/08
$23,341.50
$0.00
$46.00
$23,387.50
+367.75%

8/26/08
$22,803.30
$0.00
$46.00
$22,849.30
+356.99%

8/27/08
$22,112.42
$0.00
$46.00
$22,158.42
+343.17%

8/28/08
$21,586.50
$0.00
$46.00
$21,632.50
+332.65%

8/29/08
$21,352.50
$0.00
$46.00
$21,398.50
+327.97%

8/30/08
$21,352.50
$0.00
$46.00
$21,398.50
+327.97%

8/31/08
$21,352.50
$0.00
$46.00
$21,398.50
+327.97%

9/01/08
$21,352.50
$0.00
$46.00
$21,398.50
+327.97%

9/02/08
$22,053.92
$0.00
$46.00
$22,099.92
+342.00%

9/03/08
$22,639.50
$0.00
$46.00
$22,685.50
+353.71%

9/04/08
$20,826.00
$0.00
$46.00
$20,872.00
+317.44%

9/05/08
$20,650.50
$0.00
$46.00
$20,696.50
+313.93%

9/06/08
$20,650.50
$0.00
$46.00
$20,696.50
+313.93%

9/07/08
$20,650.50
$0.00
$46.00
$20,696.50
+313.93%

9/08/08
$21,060.00
$0.00
$46.00
$21,106.00
+322.12%

9/09/08
$19,656.00
$0.00
$46.00
$19,702.00
+294.04%

9/10/08
$19,890.00
$0.00
$46.00
$19,936.00
+298.72%

9/11/08
$20,007.00
$0.00
$46.00
$20,053.00
+301.06%

9/12/08
$19,656.00
$0.00
$46.00
$19,702.00
+294.04%

9/13/08
$19,656.00
$0.00
$46.00
$19,702.00
+294.04%

9/14/08
$19,656.00
$0.00
$46.00
$19,702.00
+294.04%

9/15/08
$18,953.42
$0.00
$46.00
$18,999.42
+279.99%

9/16/08
$18,544.50
$0.00
$46.00
$18,590.50
+271.81%

9/17/08
$17,316.00
$0.00
$46.00
$17,362.00
+247.24%

9/18/08
$18,720.00
$0.00
$46.00
$18,766.00
+275.32%

9/19/08
$18,720.00
$0.00
$46.00
$18,766.00
+275.32%

9/20/08
$18,720.00
$0.00
$46.00
$18,766.00
+275.32%

9/21/08
$18,720.00
$0.00
$46.00
$18,766.00
+275.32%

9/22/08
$18,486.00
$0.00
$46.00
$18,532.00
+270.64%

9/23/08
$17,550.00
$0.00
$46.00
$17,596.00
+251.92%

9/24/08
$16,204.50
$0.00
$46.00
$16,250.50
+225.01%

9/25/08
$16,263.00
$0.00
$46.00
$16,309.00
+226.18%

9/26/08
$15,093.00
$0.00
$46.00
$15,139.00
+202.78%

9/27/08
$15,093.00
$0.00
$46.00
$15,139.00
+202.78%

9/28/08
$15,093.00
$0.00
$46.00
$15,139.00
+202.78%

9/29/08
$13,221.00
$0.00
$46.00
$13,267.00
+165.34%

9/30/08
$13,923.00
$0.00
$46.00
$13,969.00
+179.38%

10/01/08
$13,045.50
$0.00
$46.00
$13,091.50
+161.83%

10/02/08
$12,519.00
$0.00
$46.00
$12,565.00
+151.30%

10/03/08
$12,168.00
$0.00
$46.00
$12,214.00
+144.28%

10/04/08
$12,168.00
$0.00
$46.00
$12,214.00
+144.28%

10/05/08
$12,168.00
$0.00
$46.00
$12,214.00
+144.28%

10/06/08
$11,115.00
$0.00
$46.00
$11,161.00
+123.22%

10/07/08
$10,179.00
$0.00
$46.00
$10,225.00
+104.50%

10/08/08
$10,237.50
$0.00
$46.00
$10,283.50
+105.67%

tODAY : ANOTHER 6% DROP

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: JS80

lol you think prius is profitable and/or is even close to a meaningful contribution to toyota's total revenue base?

I live in TX and I see a prius almost every time I am out. This is in Dallas and Austin.

Toyota sells almost 10 million cars a year. The prius is almost around 1 million since 1997. Prius is a flake on Toyota's income statement.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Nothing to do with their build quality, it was their poor decisions in the early 2000's. It's actually a good lesson in greed and poor leadership.

Around 2000, Toyota and Honda were switching to eco friendly cars because they had foreseen high gas prices (they have The Force or something). GM decided to run the SUV train to death...until it was too late to stop the train from going off the cliff.

$3 gas hit, and GM execs acted like they were shocked that people didn't want 12MPG SUV's anymore. So, instead of costly retooling and redesigns, they decided to offer rebates. Huge, amazing rebates---to the point where they were losing money on each vehicle sold.

The rebates made new GM vehicles cheaper to finance than used vehicles. Therefore, used GM vehicle prices took a nosedive. When this happens, lease buyouts (GM's big cash cow) took a huge hit.

Which leads us to early last year, where GM is stuck with products nobody wants, and has to accept lease returns for used vehicles they can't give away. They tried to increase sales with...you guessed it...MORE rebates. It didn't work, and they finally realized they were going to have to make efficient smaller cars. They decided to do expensive redesigns and retooling at a time when they had negative cash flow, hence the layoffs we're seeing now.

Today, they're having to retool more plants and pay workers overtime because they can't get enough Cobalts and Aveos on the market to keep up with demand. They have a product people actually want, and they can't make enough of the damn things.

Someone's going to write a book on this some day with the title "How to Screw Up a 100 Year Old Business".

You forgot to add the decisions in the 1970s to extend health benefits to retirees. Might have been a good decision, but healthcare inflation and quality have been working against them ever since. Add that to the baby boomer surge and it's a quick way to add $1500 to the sticker-price of every car sold. (or you could suggest a -$1500 of profit for every unit sold to remain competitive)

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Nothing to do with their build quality, it was their poor decisions in the early 2000's. It's actually a good lesson in greed and poor leadership.

Around 2000, Toyota and Honda were switching to eco friendly cars because they had foreseen high gas prices (they have The Force or something). GM decided to run the SUV train to death...until it was too late to stop the train from going off the cliff.

That's not when they started switching to eco friendly cars. The Japanese automakers had been making small cars for the last 20 years by then.

On the contrary, the 2000's is when they started making things like the Toyota Sequoia, Tundra, Highlander, Nissan Titan, Honda Ridgeline, etc. Japanese automakers rarely made V8 cars before then, but they bought into the whole gas guzzler lifestyle.

Small cars and eco-friendly aren't the same thing. GM and Ford basically started laughing at Toyota for the Prius. "Who the heck would buy that?" That technology gave Toyota the foothold to become the #1 automaker today.

GM sold the Metro back in the mid-90's. That got 50-60 mpg. People could have bought that if they wanted, but they'd rather buy giant bloated SUVs.

The people wanted to eat junk food so companies stepped up and sold them junk food.

The Metro was a very low quality no frills car. The version that got 50-60mpg was the 3 cylinder manual transmission---not exactly something that everyone would buy. Their automatic 4 cylinder was rated around 53mpg but actually averaged around 40 mpg. There's a reason you don't see too many Geos in general on the road anymore---they fell apart.

Anyway, reports on the Today show this morning are saying GM could run out of money early next year because they're burning cash so fast. They're also saying "could go out of business" instead of "bankruptcy" now. Not good.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: JS80

lol you think prius is profitable and/or is even close to a meaningful contribution to toyota's total revenue base?

I live in TX and I see a prius almost every time I am out. This is in Dallas and Austin.

Toyota sells almost 10 million cars a year. The prius is almost around 1 million since 1997. Prius is a flake on Toyota's income statement.

The Prius was a proof of technology test. That same hybrid technology is now in their Camry, their Highlander, and Lexus (owned by Toyota) is putting it in most of their models. I expect they'll be 100% hybrid in the coming years.

 

[HannibalX]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Your understanding is limited.

 

[wwswimming]

how about re-titling the post, "Is GM about to go Bankrupt ?"

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2236107&enterthread=y

my thread got locked.

bankrupt within 2 weeks, is what the stock market is saying. it was an accurate
predictor of WaMu's demise.

 

[Casawi]

I am considering buying a $1000 in GM stocks? am I stupid ? ... I think GM will recover after I buy their stock soon for ~$5-~$10, and eventually make money. I think this after my boss telling me yesterday he lost a ton of money in GM..lol

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Casawi
I am considering buying a $1000 in GM stocks? am I stupid ? ... I think GM will recover after I buy their stock soon for ~$5-~$10, and eventually make money. I think this after my boss telling me yesterday he lost a ton of money in GM..lol

You could...but I'm concerned about GM's cashflow. That report this morning has me thinking they're not going to be here next April.

 

[dud]

GM is down to $4.40 this morning and dropping. I WILL be buying some in the near future. This company is not going away anytime soon. It will take time but they will recover somehow. I think I'll wait until it drops down into the $2 range and then buy 1,000 shares expecting to lose it all but hoping for the best 3 to 5 years down the road.

 

[Casawi]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Casawi
I am considering buying a $1000 in GM stocks? am I stupid ? ... I think GM will recover after I buy their stock soon for ~$5-~$10, and eventually make money. I think this after my boss telling me yesterday he lost a ton of money in GM..lol

You could...but I'm concerned about GM's cashflow. That report this morning has me thinking they're not going to be here next April.

I can only lose so much if they don't go bankrupt. If GM is around another 5years or even 2, I like my chances of making money.

 

[Goosemaster]

*rips out the inside trim of a Volt frantically*

*proceeds to hookup the first two electrodes he can find to his heart in a futile attempt to save himself from death*

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Casawi
I am considering buying a $1000 in GM stocks? am I stupid ? ... I think GM will recover after I buy their stock soon for ~$5-~$10, and eventually make money. I think this after my boss telling me yesterday he lost a ton of money in GM..lol

You could...but I'm concerned about GM's cashflow. That report this morning has me thinking they're not going to be here next April.

whio said GM had $24B in cash?

how r they going to burn thru $24B in 6 months?!

or was the hypothsis of them maxing out their credit lines and cant get more credit more true?

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Nothing to do with their build quality, it was their poor decisions in the early 2000's. It's actually a good lesson in greed and poor leadership.

Around 2000, Toyota and Honda were switching to eco friendly cars because they had foreseen high gas prices (they have The Force or something). GM decided to run the SUV train to death...until it was too late to stop the train from going off the cliff.

That's not when they started switching to eco friendly cars. The Japanese automakers had been making small cars for the last 20 years by then.

On the contrary, the 2000's is when they started making things like the Toyota Sequoia, Tundra, Highlander, Nissan Titan, Honda Ridgeline, etc. Japanese automakers rarely made V8 cars before then, but they bought into the whole gas guzzler lifestyle.

Small cars and eco-friendly aren't the same thing. GM and Ford basically started laughing at Toyota for the Prius. "Who the heck would buy that?" That technology gave Toyota the foothold to become the #1 automaker today.

GM sold the Metro back in the mid-90's. That got 50-60 mpg. People could have bought that if they wanted, but they'd rather buy giant bloated SUVs.

The people wanted to eat junk food so companies stepped up and sold them junk food.

The Metro was a very low quality no frills car. The version that got 50-60mpg was the 3 cylinder manual transmission---not exactly something that everyone would buy. Their automatic 4 cylinder was rated around 53mpg but actually averaged around 40 mpg. There's a reason you don't see too many Geos in general on the road anymore---they fell apart.

Anyway, reports on the Today show this morning are saying GM could run out of money early next year because they're burning cash so fast. They're also saying "could go out of business" instead of "bankruptcy" now. Not good.

the metro was a captive import version of the suzuki cultus, and made by suzuki in japan. my friend had a 1993 i3 manual example. after driving the car extensively, and seeing a fraction of the promised 60 mpg, it was decided the car was bereft of any redeeming traits. i cannot honestly attach a single positive adjective to the car.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Casawi
I am considering buying a $1000 in GM stocks? am I stupid ? ... I think GM will recover after I buy their stock soon for ~$5-~$10, and eventually make money. I think this after my boss telling me yesterday he lost a ton of money in GM..lol

You could...but I'm concerned about GM's cashflow. That report this morning has me thinking they're not going to be here next April.

whio said GM had $24B in cash?

how r they going to burn thru $24B in 6 months?!

or was the hypothsis of them maxing out their credit lines and cant get more credit more true?

That is what they reported in August. They're bleeding fast though, so they may burn through it quick.

 

[dmcowen674]

OP need to update Title.

GM is no more

Bought by Chysler which is a private company.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
OP need to update Title.

GM is no more

Bought by Chysler which is a private company.

You got it backwards:

DETROIT - General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC have held preliminary talks about a merger or an acquisition of Chrysler by GM, according to published reports late Friday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27125864/

 

[thepd7]

up 33% if anyone bought at $4 (early Friday). I say it gets up to $8-9.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: thepd7
up 33% if anyone bought at $4 (early Friday). I say it gets up to $8-9.

I picked up 500 shares @ 5.20 betting a friend I'd double my cash in a week. He didn't buy, so we will see

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: JS80

lol you think prius is profitable and/or is even close to a meaningful contribution to toyota's total revenue base?

I live in TX and I see a prius almost every time I am out. This is in Dallas and Austin.

Toyota sells almost 10 million cars a year. The prius is almost around 1 million since 1997. Prius is a flake on Toyota's income statement.

I agree direct contribution of Prius on the balance sheet is minimal, chances are the line is operating in the red. However the marketing value derived from it is what pushed them above GM.

 

[GoingUp]

I have the new 2008 Malibu. Best car I ever owned.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
I guess that's what happens when you make crappy cars.

Thought this was about GM not Chrysler...

 

[compman25]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
OP need to update Title.

GM is no more

Bought by Chysler which is a private company.

You need to re-tune that tinfoil hat of yours, you're picking up the wrong signals.