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GM shuts down truck plants, considers cancelling Hummer

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Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Anubis
i wish we had europes diesels over here 🙁
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Diesel cost anywhere from .50 to 1.00 more then reg. gas. So even with better milage it does nto save money, let alone the upfront cost as well.

Diesel here in N.VA is almost $5 a gallon at 2 places near me. Reg gas was $4.07 at the same gas station and $3.81 at costco.
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yes it costs ~1$ more for like 3x the MPG
its still better
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You need to compare the same vehicle with both a gasoline and diesel engine before saying 3x the MPG.
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Exactly....that isn't even close to being true. 3x the mileage if you're comparing a gas V8 that would stomp the shit out of the puny diesel. Don't get me wrong...their are great diesels (BMW 335D comes to mind)...but they don't get unbelievable gas mileage like the little diesels in the econobox's over here. And believe me...they aren't nearly as fun to drive. I'd take a cheaper, high revving, lighter, Honda gas engine and significantly cheaper gas over a small diesel. Also, if diesels were to catch on over in the US, the price of diesel will go through the roof.
 
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
And of course, no one is talking about heating oil prices. Truth is, I expect to spend just as much on heating oil this winter as I spend on gasoline. I can't wait to buy a Mcmansion on discount because no one wants those anymore.
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actually there is another thread talking about it.
 
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Do you honestly think a car can be made in minutes and pass all government regulations and market demands?
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This drives me absolutely nuts. It seems the media and the rest of AT think this should be true. It takes alot of time and billions of dollars to completely restructure a company who 1. Has gigantic legacy and health care costs. 2. Cannot get the unions of their back to cut them some slack. 3. has to suffer from the mistakes of the previous upper management.

I am surprised GM has been putting out the products it has over the past 3 years with such obstacles.
 
The hummers are finally dissapearing around my area. There were a dozen stupid fucking soccer moms driving hummers around my little town, and of course they are all driven by incompetent drivers on their cell phones 90% of the time. I really wanted a tank so i could just crush their wasteful useless asses.
 
Originally posted by: Raduque
Originally posted by: joshsquall
I love people who think they know what's best for everyone else.
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:thumbsup:

Yep. I know what's best for me, not the OP. He can pry my truck keys out of my cold dead hands.

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I see no problem criticizing someone for driving 70 miles a day in a 4 ton vehicle that gets 15mpg.
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Criticize all you want, but when you start trying to tell me I don't "need" my vehicle choice, well, that's when you need to start zipping your lip. I don't want to hear it, and it's not your business or place to tell me what I "need".
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What if it's true? I see it all the time. One person cruising to work in their Expedition or Tahoe. My neighbor has a family of 4 and owns a Suburban. Tell me that he NEEDS a vehicle that big...My other neighbor has a Tahoe and it's just he and his wife.

BTW-That Suburban hasn't moved from his driveway in months. I don't even think he drives it anymore.

I also work with a woman who has a family of 6. She drives a Camry and they also have a mini-van. I think she has a better grasp of NEED than any of the other people I mentioned.

People don't buy vehicles based on their needs...that's changing though.
 
Originally posted by: Ktulu


You seriously believe that GM has not looked at every option they have available too them. Closing 4 truck plants is a move of desperation and not something that is taken lightly. If what you say is truly a viable option GM would be working on implementing it. But these days it doesn't look like GM is taking any chances so I'm gonna go with believing that GM engineers might slightly more than you regarding this technology.
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The only thing I seriously believe about GM is that its run by idiots. Oh, and engineers don't make the decisions, you fool, the management does.



Originally posted by: Ktulu


Ah bias and closed mindedness. So what successful Auto company are you running?
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He has the same amount of experience running a successful Auto company that the management of GM does: 0.

GM has been mismanaged for decades, for christ's sake.
 
Originally posted by: joshsquall
I love people who think they know what's best for everyone else.
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Those are the same people who want us to live in a metropolitan utopia. No thought goes into where farming will come in, where manufacturing plants will come in, where military installations will come in, etc. They just think if everyone lives in the city and takes mass transit we will all be saved from ourselves.
 
Originally posted by: BudAshes
The hummers are finally dissapearing around my area. There were a dozen stupid fucking soccer moms driving hummers around my little town, and of course they are all driven by incompetent drivers on their cell phones 90% of the time. I really wanted a tank so i could just crush their wasteful useless asses.
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What's the mpg on that tank?
 
Along some similar lines, the most recent issue of Wired Magazine had some interesting articles about environmentalism gone crazy.
 
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: TruePaige
As an added in lil' note...GM also has the technology already developed for this:

EV1 parallel hybrid

The parallel hybrid variant featured a de-stroked 1.3 L turbocharged DTI diesel engine (Isuzu Circle L), delivering 75 hp, installed in the trunk along with an additional 6.5 hp DC motor/generator; the two motors drove the rear wheels through an electronically controlled transaxle. When combined with the AC induction motor which powered the front wheels, all three power units delivered a total output of 219 hp, accelerating the car to 0-60 mph (96.6 km/h) in 7 seconds. A single tank of diesel fuel could keep the car running for 550 miles with a fuel economy of 80 mpg.[citation needed]

A similar technology is used in the 2005 Opel Astra Diesel Hybrid concept.



So they can choke to death on their lil' GM Volt piece of crap. They can give an all electric car, or a hybrid that doesn't stink...but they give neither.
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You seriously believe that GM has not looked at every option they have available too them. Closing 4 truck plants is a move of desperation and not something that is taken lightly. If what you say is truly a viable option GM would be working on implementing it. But these days it doesn't look like GM is taking any chances so I'm gonna go with believing that GM engineers night slightly more than you regarding this technology.
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Ah blind faith against the possibility that something could be done better, that's nice. 😉

You don't think big companies make stupid moves? Look at Microsoft, they can throw billions and billions at an operating system, and not make it run any better than one from years ago.
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Ah bias and closed mindedness. So what successful Auto company are you running? I think I missed it. I'm not saying big companies don't make stupid mistakes but you act as if you're the only person who is thinking of or has ever thought about what you're saying. I realize this is Anandtech and people here like to stroke their egos but come on.
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I've run the same amount of auto companies as you, 0. I'm willing to bet that if we both had a 100 billion dollars though, and you wanted to build the types of vehicles GM does, and I built electric vehicles I would have much better long term growth potential. =p

It's simple dollars and cents in my opinion. Fossil fuels will continue to rise in price, electricity will go down.

I'd do a crapload of combat lobbying, to help get Big Oil's influence down, to start lobby congress for more nuclear power to bring down the cost of electricity (.10 - .50 cent instead of a dollar or two for a full battery charge (200-240 miles) would be nice), create a national trade in incentive, such as "If you trade your car in towards the purchase of a new all electric automobile, we will give you a $2000 dollar tax credit".

It doesn't take a CEO to see that our current system is horribly mis-managed, and wastes money on things that will not motivate or move the people.

 
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Originally posted by: Linux23
These auto manufacturers are fvcking stupid. Gas prices has been going up steadily for the past few years, and they still keep introducing big fvcking SUV's??? These are CEO's that make these decisions, yet the little guy suffers when they lose their jobs.

We have the technology, so give people the choice to buy electric only vehicles now regardless of the range. My commute is only 3 miles to the subway. I could bike if I wanted to, but I live in a bad area, so i'm not going to risk my life to save a few bucks.

Why do we have to wait until 2010 to get an all electric vehicle? What have they been doing for the past 5 years? Planning for more big SUV's?:roll:
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It takes time to engineer, test, get approvals, re-tool plants, etc...
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Bullshit.

Thats already been done. The problem is the truly viable option was regulated out of existance. Small diesels. Theres a reason they are so damn popular in Europe. There fun to drive, snappy, and get amazing milage. Hell, heres a diesel sports car

150+ MPH and 100+ MPG. Hell yeah sign me up!

But in our quest for clean air bullshit we decided to take an alternative to gas (Which was already cleaner to begin with!) and legislate it away. Fucking brilliant. And gas was cheap enough milage wasnt a big concern anyways.

As for electric there hasnt been enough market for it until now. People arent going to spend 10 or 20 thousand on a car that cant get them out of the city without dying. Its just not very reasonable.

The people didnt push hard enough for the manufacturers to really notice. 5 years ago people bought big new cars and milage be damned. If everyone had bought used Hondas getting 50 mpg then we may have had a shift in the cars on the lots.

Make no mistake, the consumer controls what is on the shelves or lots. If something wont sell it wont be made.
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We should still put lead in gasoline to get those few extra mpg's too.
 
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: BudAshes
The hummers are finally dissapearing around my area. There were a dozen stupid fucking soccer moms driving hummers around my little town, and of course they are all driven by incompetent drivers on their cell phones 90% of the time. I really wanted a tank so i could just crush their wasteful useless asses.
Click to expand...

What's the mpg on that tank?
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Its powered by my rage.
 
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Linux23
These auto manufacturers are fvcking stupid. Gas prices has been going up steadily for the past few years, and they still keep introducing big fvcking SUV's??? These are CEO's that make these decisions, yet the little guy suffers when they lose their jobs.

We have the technology, so give people the choice to buy electric only vehicles now regardless of the range. My commute is only 3 miles to the subway. I could bike if I wanted to, but I live in a bad area, so i'm not going to risk my life to save a few bucks.

Why do we have to wait until 2010 to get an all electric vehicle? What have they been doing for the past 5 years? Planning for more big SUV's?:roll:
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's automotive companies who are forcing us to demand big vehicles, people would never do that. :roll:
Click to expand...

No, actually it's marketing that makes us think we NEED these big vehicles.
Click to expand...

How do you get a sheet of plywood home in a Cooper Mini? How about a BBQ grill? or a new dog house, or play sand or a bunch of plants to landscape your yard?

And now MARKETING is saying we all want tiny ass small vehicles because they are trendy and better on gas mileage, guess what, these small trendy gas sippers will soon cost more than the gas hog trucks and SUV's because MFGers will now they can charge a premium on those since they are in demand. I wouldn't be to surprised if the cost of ownership didn't equal what a vehicle with a lower MPG rating costs.
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If youa re a contractor, go ahead and get that truck since it is justified. For the occational big item purchases, I would just rent the HD cubevan. I drive a 2002 Protegé5. It's fun enough for me and not too shabby on gas. Currently doing 70% highway and about 11.5KM/L. I was able to carry rather large items in it too. 4 Burner BBQ (still in box), snowblower (unassembled, out of box), and a 6 person kitchen table's top. Of course, 1 at a time, but these are rare events in one's life. Why would I drive a big vehicle around just in case I need to buy those things?
 
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Anubis
i wish we had europes diesels over here 🙁
Click to expand...

Diesel cost anywhere from .50 to 1.00 more then reg. gas. So even with better milage it does nto save money, let alone the upfront cost as well.

Diesel here in N.VA is almost $5 a gallon at 2 places near me. Reg gas was $4.07 at the same gas station and $3.81 at costco.
Click to expand...

yes it costs ~1$ more for like 3x the MPG
its still better
Click to expand...

You need to compare the same vehicle with both a gasoline and diesel engine before saying 3x the MPG.
Click to expand...

Exactly....that isn't even close to being true. 3x the mileage if you're comparing a gas V8 that would stomp the shit out of the puny diesel. Don't get me wrong...their are great diesels (BMW 335D comes to mind)...but they don't get unbelievable gas mileage like the little diesels in the econobox's over here. And believe me...they aren't nearly as fun to drive. I'd take a cheaper, high revving, lighter, Honda gas engine and significantly cheaper gas over a small diesel. Also, if diesels were to catch on over in the US, the price of diesel will go through the roof.
Click to expand...

i shoudl have added in nearly 3x as much as what i currently drive
and i could not care less about how "fun to drive" a car is
 
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Your an idiot Snatchface.

Big Oil as you call it has never controlled out vehicle choices.

In fact, Big Oil has never made vehicles.

Sorry to rain on your emotionally charged parade with facts.
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Yes, he forgot big oil controls not just the auto companies but U.S. Politicians including the President.

Shame on him.
 
Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Linux23
These auto manufacturers are fvcking stupid. Gas prices has been going up steadily for the past few years, and they still keep introducing big fvcking SUV's??? These are CEO's that make these decisions, yet the little guy suffers when they lose their jobs.

We have the technology, so give people the choice to buy electric only vehicles now regardless of the range. My commute is only 3 miles to the subway. I could bike if I wanted to, but I live in a bad area, so i'm not going to risk my life to save a few bucks.

Why do we have to wait until 2010 to get an all electric vehicle? What have they been doing for the past 5 years? Planning for more big SUV's?:roll:
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's automotive companies who are forcing us to demand big vehicles, people would never do that. :roll:
Click to expand...

No, actually it's marketing that makes us think we NEED these big vehicles.
Click to expand...

How do you get a sheet of plywood home in a Cooper Mini? How about a BBQ grill? or a new dog house, or play sand or a bunch of plants to landscape your yard?

And now MARKETING is saying we all want tiny ass small vehicles because they are trendy and better on gas mileage, guess what, these small trendy gas sippers will soon cost more than the gas hog trucks and SUV's because MFGers will now they can charge a premium on those since they are in demand. I wouldn't be to surprised if the cost of ownership didn't equal what a vehicle with a lower MPG rating costs.
Click to expand...

If youa re a contractor, go ahead and get that truck since it is justified. For the occational big item purchases, I would just rent the HD cubevan. I drive a 2002 Protegé5. It's fun enough for me and not too shabby on gas. Currently doing 70% highway and about 11.5KM/L. I was able to carry rather large items in it too. 4 Burner BBQ (still in box), snowblower (unassembled, out of box), and a 6 person kitchen table's top. Of course, 1 at a time, but these are rare events in one's life. Why would I drive a big vehicle around just in case I need to buy those things?
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Stop it. You're just making sense now...there is no place for logic or reason in this thread.
 
Originally posted by: Ktulu
http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm...cal-caw-president.html

I was wondering the Unions had to say about this.

This morning's announcement by GM CEO Rick Wagoner has left CAW branch president Chris Buckley slightly upset to say the least. Buckley, who represents workers at the Oshawa truck plant, which GM plans to close in September of next year, said GM's decision is "nothing short of betrayal."
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I was wondering this as well. It is certainly the right move for GM as a business...but the Unions can't be happy. I don't envy Rick Wagoner's job. I think he's done an amazing job trying to get GM out of the mess they dug themselves into over the last 3 decades.
 
I'm going to start making "Gas Whore" bumber stickers, and slap them on hummers parked in the shopping mall parking lot.
 
Originally posted by: Ktulu
http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm...cal-caw-president.html

I was wondering the Unions had to say about this.

This morning's announcement by GM CEO Rick Wagoner has left CAW branch president Chris Buckley slightly upset to say the least. Buckley, who represents workers at the Oshawa truck plant, which GM plans to close in September of next year, said GM's decision is "nothing short of betrayal."
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What a dumbass. I suppose GM should continue hemorrhaging money and wasting resources producing vehicles nobody wants just so that plant can stay open. How do these short sighted idiots ever get in positions of power anyway...nevermind...one look at our President and the idiots who voted for him answers that quesiton.
 
I'm so happy that this country is going into an economic tail spin that might take it out of first world status and our children will never know prosperity so long as the little birdies don't cough when they fly.

 
Originally posted by: Squisher
I'm so happy that this country is going into an economic tail spin that might take it out of first world status and our children will never know prosperity so long as the little birdies don't cough when they fly.
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that won't happen. while we may not be the most powerfull or most economic we are never goint to slop from first world status
 
Holy cow, the Canadians are PISSED!! Or is this typical union rhetoric? (oops, looks like this was mentioned already)
Tue Jun 3, 11:57 AM
(The Canadian Press)

TORONTO - <snip>
"We are going to fight this decision," Canadian Auto Workers president Buzz Hargrove declared at a news conference.

"This decision is unfair, it's unjust, it's unwarranted, it's illegal, it violates our collective agreement, and we're going to do everything in our power - and we have power."

Asked what the union's response would be, he said: "Watch us."
<snip>
Hargrove said GM committed in writing to produce pickups in Oshawa through the life of the new collective agreement which was ratified only two weeks ago. He said the automaker also promised that Oshawa would build a new generation of light-duty trucks to be introduced in 2011 or 2012.

"There was no justification for a change which would lead to this kind of decision," Hargrove said.

"It violates the corporation's moral obligation to its workers and their families. It violates the whole concept of collective bargaining."

He urged the federal government to refuse to allow sales in Canada of General Motors trucks made elsewhere if the closure goes through at what GM has acknowledged is a highly productive plant.

"It's an American company, controlled by Americans and run by Americans," Hargrove said.

"They're trying to cut their costs by moving some of our production into Mexico."

Canadian politicians, he said, "are not even boy scouts when it comes to international trade - we're cub scouts."

The "shocking" closure announcement is "nothing short of betrayal - it's absolutely disgusting," said Chris Buckley, president of the CAW local at the Oshawa plant, who also attacked the "cowardly" way GM made the announcement in Oshawa, refusing to allow union officials to address the workforce. etc etc
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