GM shuts down truck plants, considers cancelling Hummer

[fisheerman]

Man we are getting fleeced......

Look at the first 2 minutes of this vid

The Truth?


-fish

 

[Linux23]

Originally posted by: fisheerman
Man we are getting fleeced......

Look at the first 2 minutes of this vid

The Truth?


-fish

So what. Regardless if we have enough oil, we should be moving away from it. Permanently.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

What if it's true? I see it all the time. One person cruising to work in their Expedition or Tahoe. My neighbor has a family of 4 and owns a Suburban. Tell me that he NEEDS a vehicle that big...My other neighbor has a Tahoe and it's just he and his wife.

It all goes back to you not being in charge of deciding another person's needs and shuttin' your trap.

You only see that one person cruising to work in their Tahoe during that cruise to work. You don't see the boat they tow on Sunday to the lake, or their 5 kids they haul to dinner a few days a week. You don't see your neighbor and his wife pickup up 5 other people and heading to the swinger party.

He has every right to judge his neighbors for being stupid and driving a Suburban every day to work, whether or not the person happens to use the full capacity once or twice a year. You know, if you went by what people posted on forums, you'd think every household owning a Suburban also owns a boat they tow on the weekends.

What right does he have to judge another person? I mean technically he does, but it doesn't matter for jack shit why the person chooses to drive the Burban, I hate people who judge. They way they act like they're so much better, I really wish I could afford 10 Hummers so I can drive them around just to piss people off. If doesn't matter if the dude who drives the Burban has no family and his daily commute is 100 miles each direction. If he can afford to drive it, that's his choice as an adult. as for "being stupid" that would be an OPINION not a fact, yeah it's bad for the planet but a lot of things are, stupid is subjective. And maybe said buy has a valid reason, like he goes to the river every weekend and needs to toe a boat. That's not even that uncommon I have neighbors who do that at least twice a month.

Maybe I should go outside yell "STUIPID!" at them and tell them to get a Corolla, I'm sure a Corolla could toe a big ass boat just fine. Oh wait, who cares it's their life and they can do whatever they want that's legal. Last time I checked owning a Hummer isn't illegal and the "stupid" part is debatable as everyone has their own opinion on things.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

What if it's true? I see it all the time. One person cruising to work in their Expedition or Tahoe. My neighbor has a family of 4 and owns a Suburban. Tell me that he NEEDS a vehicle that big...My other neighbor has a Tahoe and it's just he and his wife.

It all goes back to you not being in charge of deciding another person's needs and shuttin' your trap.

You only see that one person cruising to work in their Tahoe during that cruise to work. You don't see the boat they tow on Sunday to the lake, or their 5 kids they haul to dinner a few days a week. You don't see your neighbor and his wife pickup up 5 other people and heading to the swinger party.

You don't know everything that factors into a vehicle choice, and you can't know unless it's your choice, or maybe your spouses. You have no right to stick your nose in other's business, just because you THINK you know better.

Sure I do. I see what these people do every single day. They don't own a boat, they don't do ANY work on their house, they have 2 kids and most of the time they take his wife's Escape hybrid everywhere they go. Our other neighbor goes to the Chargers games during the season with another couple. So 7-8 times during the year they actually have 4 people in the Tahoe.

I work with a woman who drives an Expedition 70+ miles every single day. She is married and has no children. Her husband drives a fullsize truck about 70 miles the opposite direction every day. Yeah, that's efficient...:roll: At least she is car pooling now with a couple other women here now. Thank high gas prices for that.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: QueBert
What right does he have to judge another person? I mean technically he does, but it doesn't matter for jack shit why the person chooses to drive the Burban, I hate people who judge. They way they act like they're so much better, I really wish I could afford 10 Hummers so I can drive them around just to piss people off. If doesn't matter if the dude who drives the Burban has no family and his daily commute is 100 miles each direction. If he can afford to drive it, that's his choice as an adult. as for "being stupid" that would be an OPINION not a fact, yeah it's bad for the planet but a lot of things are, stupid is subjective. And maybe said buy has a valid reason, like he goes to the river every weekend and needs to toe a boat. That's not even that uncommon I have neighbors who do that at least twice a month.

Maybe I should go outside yell "STUIPID!" at them and tell them to get a Corolla, I'm sure a Corolla could toe a big ass boat just fine. Oh wait, who cares it's their life and they can do whatever they want that's legal. Last time I checked owning a Hummer isn't illegal and the "stupid" part is debatable as everyone has their own opinion on things.

Think of a specific situation to compare to: There is a gallon of water left, and you have to make that last a whole week, all while sharing it with your neighbor. There might be another gallon of water coming, but no one knows. For every drink of whater you take, they take 2 drinks, and throw one of them out because they feel better about it. One of every 20 times they waste water, it's because they had to rinse their mouth out.

That's like having a car that uses a lot of gas all year long, just for the few times you need to haul something. You can rent a larger car for the specific time you need to haul something, every other country in the world is able to grasp this.

Unfortunately, I don't think most people will change their habits until it hurts them where it matters, and that's their wallet.

Also, just because something is legal or not, doesn't make it right. If killing people wasn't illegal, would you do it and say it's your right because it's not against the law?

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

What if it's true? I see it all the time. One person cruising to work in their Expedition or Tahoe. My neighbor has a family of 4 and owns a Suburban. Tell me that he NEEDS a vehicle that big...My other neighbor has a Tahoe and it's just he and his wife.

It all goes back to you not being in charge of deciding another person's needs and shuttin' your trap.

You only see that one person cruising to work in their Tahoe during that cruise to work. You don't see the boat they tow on Sunday to the lake, or their 5 kids they haul to dinner a few days a week. You don't see your neighbor and his wife pickup up 5 other people and heading to the swinger party.

You don't know everything that factors into a vehicle choice, and you can't know unless it's your choice, or maybe your spouses. You have no right to stick your nose in other's business, just because you THINK you know better.

Sure I do. I see what these people do every single day. They don't own a boat, they don't do ANY work on their house, they have 2 kids and most of the time they take his wife's Escape hybrid everywhere they go. Our other neighbor goes to the Chargers games during the season with another couple. So 7-8 times during the year they actually have 4 people in the Tahoe.

I work with a woman who drives an Expedition 70+ miles every single day. She is married and has no children. Her husband drives a fullsize truck about 70 miles the opposite direction every day. Yeah, that's efficient...:roll: At least she is car pooling now with a couple other women here now. Thank high gas prices for that.

My own personal experience is just the same. One person works at a nail salon and drives a land cruiser, one just goes to school and back, one uses it for nothing but city driving to make sure people show up to their job site, etc.

If someone is actually making use of their car and are making a concious decision, I don't care, but the issue is that most people won't even admit they're wasteful.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Now maybe we can start moving forward as a country instead of allowing big oil to control our vehicle choices and destroy the earth.

Big oil didn't control vehicle choice, moron. People have always had the option to drive small cars. They chose not to.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
nobody uses "km/L". please convert to "L/100km" or "mp(US)g"

Get out more and stop being so egotistic. The rest of the world uses L/100KM with the exception of UK and they don't even use the same gallon as the US. So burst your bubble and broaden your perspective.

How about you bite me and eat a dick, then convert to L/100km like you're told, assface.

LOL...admittedly when I skimmed his post I didn't realize he posted in km/L and for some reason thought he was quoting L/100km...and then skimmed your post and thought you said convert from 100km/L to miles/(us)g. Still, take your lithium and calm down...it's just an internet forum.

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
PricklyPete post your location so I can bash you more thoroughly

I'm currently in Norwich UK until tomorrow...so feel free to pick a pub, we can meet...have it out...and drink a Guinness afterward. 🙂

I'm not going overseas for a Guinness, that costs too much km/L 😛

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Now maybe we can start moving forward as a country instead of allowing big oil to control our vehicle choices and destroy the earth.

Big oil didn't control vehicle choice, moron. People have always had the option to drive small cars. They chose not to.

Thank you for your comments. However, I must respectfully disagree.

It is in fact well know that big oil has had an active and aggressive policy toward squashing fuel economy technologies in the US both on the political level through lobbying and on the private level by buying out patents and burying them. The end result is that today, whatever vehicle you choose to buy, you will use more gas to run it. No reason for you to defend big oil. You should be angry. They are just one small step down from the tobacco industry in terms of collusion and manipulation for profit in the US. The end result is damages to the economy, indivuals and the planet.

PS - This is my opinion based on understanding of the information I have accrued. It is rude to call someone a moron without trying to understand their position first. Please try to be more mature in the future. Thank you.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Squisher
the loss of the manufacturing base,

we've been manufacturing more than we ever have.

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Your an idiot Snatchface.

Big Oil as you call it has never controlled out vehicle choices. In fact, Big Oil has never made vehicles.

Sorry to rain on your emotionally charged parade with facts.

Incorrectamundo. It is well know that big oil has bought out patents on prior iterations of electric vehicles and fuel efficient engines, and have blocked the introduction of more efficient diesel consumer vehicles in the US.

Your post = fail.

show me a patent. freepatentsonline.com

and you're telling me that 'big oil' is running CARB?

still waiting

and still waiting.

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Squisher
the loss of the manufacturing base,

we've been manufacturing more than we ever have.

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Your an idiot Snatchface.

Big Oil as you call it has never controlled out vehicle choices. In fact, Big Oil has never made vehicles.

Sorry to rain on your emotionally charged parade with facts.

Incorrectamundo. It is well know that big oil has bought out patents on prior iterations of electric vehicles and fuel efficient engines, and have blocked the introduction of more efficient diesel consumer vehicles in the US.

Your post = fail.

show me a patent. freepatentsonline.com

and you're telling me that 'big oil' is running CARB?

still waiting

and still waiting.

You will not find patents there that are in patent-pending status at the time of purchase that were never completed. You must know that. The patenting process is lengthy and expensive, most technologies are bought out before the patent process is completed.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Snatchface
You will not find patents there that are in patent-pending status at the time of purchase that were never completed. You must know that. The patenting process is lengthy and expensive, most technologies are bought out before the patent process is completed.

I'm not an expert in IP law or anything, but have been working on a few patents lately (some are still provisional and haven't moved past that) and don't know if you're right... I mean, at least for what I'm working with, it's 10-15k for the entire process assuming your development is completed or at least somewhat matured. Is 10-15k really that much for companies? Maybe it's different for "big oil"?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Snatchface
You will not find patents there that are in patent-pending status at the time of purchase that were never completed. You must know that. The patenting process is lengthy and expensive, most technologies are bought out before the patent process is completed.

applications are published after 18 months, so, no.

 

[The Sauce]

Ok, so since this has become a patent discussion, let me ask you a few questions. Do you really think that big oil would advertise the fact that they are suppressing technology by buying patents under their own names? Do you really think you are going to find patent purchases listed publicly under XOM or BP? No, of course not. They are not stupid. They will be purchased under sham companies and subsidiaries. It is simplistic to think that you could turn them up easily with a simple search of freepatentsonline.com. If so this would be headlines on CNN, not an ATOT thread.

Regarding the issue of patent-pending, there was a good example of this recently. Intel bought out a bankrupting new chip maker (can't remember the name but there was an article about it in this months MaximumPC). Most of the purchase price was due to patent-pending technologies with very few actual formally patented.

Who killed the electric car?

GM's Andy Card had been fighting Electric cars for years, and GM's true intention became apparent when on Oct. 10, 2000, GM agreed to sell their control of the EV batteries to Texaco. Less than a week later, on Oct. 16, 2000, only days after Texaco acquired control of the batteries, Chevron agreed to purchase Texaco in a $100 billion merger. Chevron announced the merger even though the GM sale of the batteries to what would become Chevron did not close until July 17, 2000. Perhaps Chevron wanted this sale to be announced prior to the merger so it would not look like Chevron (formerly Standard Oil of California) worked directly with GM. > >>

GM and Chevron collaborated with Toyota-Panasonic in such a way that these batteries were killed, and no such NiMH batteries are available for EVs. Chevron, awash in oil profits, assets and cash reserves, claims that "it's a chicken and egg problem" of "no demand", but that does not explain why they sued Panasonic, extracting $30,000,000. Shortly thereafter, the EV-95 line of proven, NiMH batteries still running in the RAV4-EV was shut down and killed, and the batteries cannot be sold or imported into the USA, according to one Toyota spokesperson.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

If what they stopped was so big, wouldn't someone have seen the application that was published and realized it was a good technology? You know, there are countries that don't uphold patent laws like the US, and so they'd be producing those parts by now.

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
If what they stopped was so big, wouldn't someone have seen the application that was published and realized it was a good technology? You know, there are countries that don't uphold patent laws like the US, and so they'd be producing those parts by now.

Thats where the lobbying part of their program comes in - blocking imports, high import taxes, etc. I don't have any data on that specific point but they have been know to engage in similar tactics in the past.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
If what they stopped was so big, wouldn't someone have seen the application that was published and realized it was a good technology? You know, there are countries that don't uphold patent laws like the US, and so they'd be producing those parts by now.

Thats where the lobbying part of their program comes in - blocking imports, high import taxes, etc. I don't have any data on that specific point but they have been know to engage in similar tactics in the past.

Forget imports, wouldn't someone be producing this technology and using it in another country?

Can you even find a news article citing this activity with some decent evidence that can be verified?

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
If what they stopped was so big, wouldn't someone have seen the application that was published and realized it was a good technology? You know, there are countries that don't uphold patent laws like the US, and so they'd be producing those parts by now.

Thats where the lobbying part of their program comes in - blocking imports, high import taxes, etc. I don't have any data on that specific point but they have been know to engage in similar tactics in the past.

Forget imports, wouldn't someone be producing this technology and using it in another country?

Can you even find a news article citing this activity with some decent evidence that can be verified?

No I can not, it's pure speculation. But see my quote above about the purchase of the EV1 battery by Texaco/Chevron. That is verifiable, regardless of it lack of use in other contries.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
If what they stopped was so big, wouldn't someone have seen the application that was published and realized it was a good technology? You know, there are countries that don't uphold patent laws like the US, and so they'd be producing those parts by now.

Thats where the lobbying part of their program comes in - blocking imports, high import taxes, etc. I don't have any data on that specific point but they have been know to engage in similar tactics in the past.

Forget imports, wouldn't someone be producing this technology and using it in another country?

Can you even find a news article citing this activity with some decent evidence that can be verified?

He can't. He's talking out of his arse.

 

[Fiat1]

Originally posted by: bignateyk
Big oil kills small children women and KITTENS!

Fixed

 

[The Sauce]

BTW, Chevron/Texaco stock up today despite DOW declines of close to 400 pts and oil almost at $140/barrel. You think these guys don't know how to make $hitloads of money?