GM shuts down truck plants, considers cancelling Hummer

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The Sauce

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,739
34
91
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
If someone wants a hummer, that's up to them and fine by me. What right would I have (or any of you here for that matter) to say they can't do that?

That's exactly right. In the US we don't have the right to tell anyone that they can or can't do anything. That's how we got into this crapfest in the first place. But now the market is telling them not to do it. That's the beauty of the whole thing.
 

The Sauce

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,739
34
91
Originally posted by: potato28
Originally posted by: Ktulu
http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm...cal-caw-president.html

I was wondering the Unions had to say about this.

This morning's announcement by GM CEO Rick Wagoner has left CAW branch president Chris Buckley slightly upset to say the least. Buckley, who represents workers at the Oshawa truck plant, which GM plans to close in September of next year, said GM's decision is "nothing short of betrayal."

And it will kill most of the Eastern part of the GTA because a lot of people that live in Oshawa and the area around it work for the auto industry that feeds off of that truck plant and the truck plant itself.

They will be rehired in droves in a year or two when those plants are converted to electric-vehicles. Then everyone will be buying a new electric car and the new car market will boom...that is assuming the US automakers aren't too sluggish to figure that one out and completely miss the boat again.
 

xanis

Lifer
Sep 11, 2005
17,571
8
0
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
If someone wants a hummer, that's up to them and fine by me. What right would I have (or any of you here for that matter) to say they can't do that?

That's exactly right. In the US we don't have the right to tell anyone that they can or can't do anything. That's how we got into this crapfest in the first place. But now the market is telling them not to do it. That's the beauty of the whole thing.

So true. However, the area where I live has a lot of wealthy families and individuals that still drive their supercharged Land Rovers, Hummers, Land Cruisers, etc. because they just don't give a crap about gas prices. These people are the exception to the rule I guess. :p
 

jiggahertz

Golden Member
Apr 7, 2005
1,532
0
76
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
If someone wants a hummer, that's up to them and fine by me. What right would I have (or any of you here for that matter) to say they can't do that?

That's exactly right. In the US we don't have the right to tell anyone that they can or can't do anything. That's how we got into this crapfest in the first place. But now the market is telling them not to do it. That's the beauty of the whole thing.

You seem to care a lot about what other people drive.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
If someone wants a hummer, that's up to them and fine by me. What right would I have (or any of you here for that matter) to say they can't do that?

That's exactly right. In the US we don't have the right to tell anyone that they can or can't do anything. That's how we got into this crapfest in the first place. But now the market is telling them not to do it. That's the beauty of the whole thing.

Why do you even care what they drive? It is their car and their money, not yours, so what's the problem?
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
0
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
If someone wants a hummer, that's up to them and fine by me. What right would I have (or any of you here for that matter) to say they can't do that?

That's exactly right. In the US we don't have the right to tell anyone that they can or can't do anything. That's how we got into this crapfest in the first place. But now the market is telling them not to do it. That's the beauty of the whole thing.

Why do you even care what they drive? It is their car and their money, not yours, so what's the problem?

probably jealousy
 

The Sauce

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,739
34
91
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
If someone wants a hummer, that's up to them and fine by me. What right would I have (or any of you here for that matter) to say they can't do that?

That's exactly right. In the US we don't have the right to tell anyone that they can or can't do anything. That's how we got into this crapfest in the first place. But now the market is telling them not to do it. That's the beauty of the whole thing.

Why do you even care what they drive? It is their car and their money, not yours, so what's the problem?

It's my world. We all share that. It's my country - the one that is enslaved to middle east oil. That's why I care. Every dollar that we give to the middle east lessens us.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,357
8,446
126
Originally posted by: NL5
As I said IIRC. I know it was way faster than GM, Ford or Chrysler. I'll try and find the answer and post it.

edit - GM still had plenty of time to see this coming. Short sightedness on their part. Probably because of those damn unions making the CEO's make bad decisions. Dammit!

3 years at best. maybe 2 if it's a small scale project involving a lot of left-over parts. just changing the line takes longer than 6 months, as gar3555 mentioned.


Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
MPG is factor of many things, including curb weight.

Why not start mass producting carbon fiber cars (McLaren F1, Enzo, etc.)? Makes them a fraction of the weight and safer too.

Think of like a carbon-fiber Audi A4 with a 4-cylinder turbo diesel and Quattro with a 6-speed MT. I want one!

why do you think ford is cuddling up to boeing?


Originally posted by: preslove

How's that working out? If hydrogen actually gets large scale implementation, it will take years. Toyota is printing money with the prius and GM is hemorrhaging. If they wanted to sell the Hummer brand, they should have sold it 3 years ago. No it's practically worthless. So yeah, short sighted.

has toyota covered it's development costs yet?

and whether they should have sold it 3 years ago depends on it's worth 3 years ago vs. how much money GM made by plasticizing a tahoe.
 

Pepsi90919

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,162
1
81
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
nobody uses "km/L". please convert to "L/100km" or "mp(US)g"

Get out more and stop being so egotistic. The rest of the world uses L/100KM with the exception of UK and they don't even use the same gallon as the US. So burst your bubble and broaden your perspective.

How about you bite me and eat a dick, then convert to L/100km like you're told, assface.



How about a vacation for you??? Two weeks sound about right??


esquared
Anandtech Senior Moderator
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
If someone wants a hummer, that's up to them and fine by me. What right would I have (or any of you here for that matter) to say they can't do that?

That's exactly right. In the US we don't have the right to tell anyone that they can or can't do anything. That's how we got into this crapfest in the first place. But now the market is telling them not to do it. That's the beauty of the whole thing.

Why do you even care what they drive? It is their car and their money, not yours, so what's the problem?

It's my world. We all share that. It's my country - the one that is enslaved to middle east oil. That's why I care. Every dollar that we give to the middle east lessens us.

Oh, so you don't have the right to tell them to stop, but you want to decide what others drive anyway. Great.

If you don't like being "enslaved" to middle eastern oil, stop driving altogether and/or push for drilling in our own country. I for one would love to use our own supply instead of paying their prices for their oil.
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Snatchface thinks that the economic downturn in this country because of the uptick of oil will be short lived and the technological pressure to develop alternative technologies will cause a transportation advancement. With the falling dollar, the loss of the manufacturing base, and the seeming crumbling of the housing situation it is dangerous to hope that this will beneficial.

I, on the other hand think that any advancements will be a much slower evolution. The downturn of our economy might just become ingrained into every facet of our lives for a much longer period of time.
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
26,108
5
81
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
If someone wants a hummer, that's up to them and fine by me. What right would I have (or any of you here for that matter) to say they can't do that?

That's exactly right. In the US we don't have the right to tell anyone that they can or can't do anything. That's how we got into this crapfest in the first place. But now the market is telling them not to do it. That's the beauty of the whole thing.

Why do you even care what they drive? It is their car and their money, not yours, so what's the problem?

probably jealousy
I think it's just that most of us don't agree with them, and the issue is that in the end, it hurts everyone. People hate change though, and that's part of the issues lately (IMO). The US was founded on letting people change as they wish, freedom from the government to do what they believed in, follow their own religion, etc. All those years of prosperous times have gotten us (as a country, not you or I specifically) to a point where we can't imagine life any differently.

It comes down to this: Whenever you're driving, the more weight you have, especially weight that can be avoided, you're being wasteful. I'm not saying people should go ripping out their car seats, removing their a/c, etc., but rather just be aware of their choice. When things are going great though, people don't care and it's easy to shrug off. Now that it's an issue and people are being noticed when they say these things, it fires everyone up.

The US needs to look at the lifestyle of other countries, and it'll happen sooner or later, it's already begun the past few years, but the issue is that if we had been listening to those people sooner, we could have minimized our damages.

Note: I'm sure I've made some mistakes or misconceptions with my post, take it for the overall point, not specific history lessons.

For most people, I think their use of larger cars is an emotional decision. Many of my best friends for the past 10+ years have *huge* cars and still continue that, it's their choice, not something I agree with personally, but they acknowledge that it's a choice out of their ego and emotion.
 

Kerouactivist

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2001
4,665
0
76
All I gotta say is if they have are going to have a sin tax on cigarettes and booze...thay need to have a sin tax on freaking SUV's...or at least make the SUV's have big warning labels down the side by law....that would be hilarious...
 

AAman

Golden Member
May 29, 2001
1,432
0
0
Nothing makes me happier than seeing this pathetic company going away- they had 35 years to adapt and improve and did nothing. Instead of improving, they bribed politicians and helped destroy our country. Good riddance.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,553
834
126
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Originally posted by: QueBert
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Now maybe we can start moving forward as a country instead of allowing big oil to control our vehicle choices and destroy the earth. People are not buying fuel hogs anymore, are riding bikes, scooters and now electric vehicles scheduled to be sold by 2010. Without high fuel proces this would never have happened. People are pissed but in the end it is going to be a good thing for everyone - including the auto makers who are now being forced to innovate.

GM closes plants

AWESOME, forget the fact GM laid off 10,000 people and my neighbor who was going to buy a Hummer is either still going to, or he'll find anoter SUV to buy.

So basically nobody is not going to not get a SUV because of this, they'll just have a smaller selection to choose from. And 10,000 will be without a job. What an great situation.

do you really think auto makers will be forced to make all non trucks/SUV's? Every person who wants an SUV will still find one easily, and this move won't make anyone who wanted an SUV to stop and think, and decide on hybrid. My neighbor has his heart set on a H2, he doesn't care if he has to pay $800 a month in gas (I asked) He might not be the norm, but there are more than enough people like him out there. There won't be any less SUV's on the road in 6 months then there would have been if GM had kept the plants open.

I fail to see any good here.
Your friend should buy a used Hummer if he wants one, I bet dealers are basically giving these things away with gas prices the way they are. New cars in general are such a ripoff anyways.

Also, the double digit decreases in truck sales should be proof that most people don't need them bad enough to to justify the extra fuel costs. I'd say your friend is in the minority.

What do you think the markup is on a H2? GM doesn't have to have an entire plant with 5,000 people that makes nothing but Hummers, but they make enough profit one them where they should continue to make at least some. I agree a whole Hummer plant is absurd, but if they could sell 5,000 a year and make a killing on each why not make those 5,000 a year? He was ready to drop $60,000 on one, I have no idea what their cost is to make it, but the profit margin is probably more than 5 of their lower end cars combined.

People who buy $700 video cards are in the minority but there is a market and the markup is crazy - much like the markup on an H2. GM is neglecting this minority and it's a shame. My neighbor found his Hummer, gonna be I believe $56k out the door.

 

LS21

Banned
Nov 27, 2007
3,745
1
0
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Why do you even care what they drive? It is their car and their money, not yours, so what's the problem?

-Hummers blind other drivers because their high-set head lights (as well as other SUVs and tall trucks).
-They impose by way of being a visibility problem -- cant see in front of them, cant see past them (ie 2 cars pull out of parking lot, or hummer parked on curb and car pulling out of lot, car facing opposite hummer on non-arrow turn light, etc etc)
-They hog up parking space; parking next to one increases chances of getting dinged
-Liability in a collision ("why dont you buy a more massive car then!!!"

Buy them and park them in a garge - i dont care. Drive them on the road...there are plenty of valid reasons why they annoy me
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
162
106
Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
MPG is factor of many things, including curb weight.

Why not start mass producting carbon fiber cars (McLaren F1, Enzo, etc.)? Makes them a fraction of the weight and safer too.

Think of like a carbon-fiber Audi A4 with a 4-cylinder turbo diesel and Quattro with a 6-speed MT. I want one!

You willing to pay $90K for that A4? Aren't most Carbon Fiber cars shaped by hand? Also...if you get in a fender bender...total?

I love the idea as well...but I don't see that being practical as much as I'd love it.

I am pretty sure the carbon hoods you buy off internet dealers are machine made. I have asked this question before and the response is always, it costs too much. I think we have reached the point where it should be viable.

I think you are right that it is viable to some extent for hoods, roofs, etc (See BMW M3, etc)...but I still think it is relatively expensive. I'm sure you will see it integrated more and more into some parts of the car to save weight...but I think we're a long way off from mass produced complete car bodies in Carbon Fiber.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
162
106
Originally posted by: NL5
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NL5
Also, IIRC Toyota can have a new vehicle on line in 6 mos.

that's a load of crap.

As I said IIRC. I know it was way faster than GM, Ford or Chrysler. I'll try and find the answer and post it.

edit - GM still had plenty of time to see this coming. Short sightedness on their part. Probably because of those damn unions making the CEO's make bad decisions. Dammit!

It was faster...and then Toyota Quality started going down (Avalon, Camry, Tacoma) and they explicitly said they were going to be increasing development times with the hope of regaining their previous quality levels.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
162
106
Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
nobody uses "km/L". please convert to "L/100km" or "mp(US)g"

Get out more and stop being so egotistic. The rest of the world uses L/100KM with the exception of UK and they don't even use the same gallon as the US. So burst your bubble and broaden your perspective.

How about you bite me and eat a dick, then convert to L/100km like you're told, assface.

LOL...admittedly when I skimmed his post I didn't realize he posted in km/L and for some reason thought he was quoting L/100km...and then skimmed your post and thought you said convert from 100km/L to miles/(us)g. Still, take your lithium and calm down...it's just an internet forum.

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
PricklyPete post your location so I can bash you more thoroughly

I'm currently in Norwich UK until tomorrow...so feel free to pick a pub, we can meet...have it out...and drink a Guinness afterward. :)
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
162
106
Originally posted by: bthorny
All I gotta say is if they have are going to have a sin tax on cigarettes and booze...thay need to have a sin tax on freaking SUV's...or at least make the SUV's have big warning labels down the side by law....that would be hilarious...

That's right...lets compound one crappy law by adding more...brilliant!
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: AAman
Nothing makes me happier than seeing this pathetic company going away- they had 35 years to adapt and improve and did nothing. Instead of improving, they bribed politicians and helped destroy our country. Good riddance.

:confused:

Where did you read that GM was going out of business? You know something that we don't b/c all they're doing is closing 4 plants. GM is still the largest US auto maker.

IF GM were to go out of business, our economy would be in a world of hurt from the aftermath. The number of employees out of work and number of businesses that supply parts/services to GM.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Originally posted by: Raduque
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

What if it's true? I see it all the time. One person cruising to work in their Expedition or Tahoe. My neighbor has a family of 4 and owns a Suburban. Tell me that he NEEDS a vehicle that big...My other neighbor has a Tahoe and it's just he and his wife.


It all goes back to you not being in charge of deciding another person's needs and shuttin' your trap.

You only see that one person cruising to work in their Tahoe during that cruise to work. You don't see the boat they tow on Sunday to the lake, or their 5 kids they haul to dinner a few days a week. You don't see your neighbor and his wife pickup up 5 other people and heading to the swinger party.

He has every right to judge his neighbors for being stupid and driving a Suburban every day to work, whether or not the person happens to use the full capacity once or twice a year. You know, if you went by what people posted on forums, you'd think every household owning a Suburban also owns a boat they tow on the weekends.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
meh do you need to take a vacation over seas requiring a long carbon blasting airline trip?