GM shuts down truck plants, considers cancelling Hummer

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Apr 17, 2005
13,465
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Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Linux23
These auto manufacturers are fvcking stupid. Gas prices has been going up steadily for the past few years, and they still keep introducing big fvcking SUV's??? These are CEO's that make these decisions, yet the little guy suffers when they lose their jobs.

We have the technology, so give people the choice to buy electric only vehicles now regardless of the range. My commute is only 3 miles to the subway. I could bike if I wanted to, but I live in a bad area, so i'm not going to risk my life to save a few bucks.

Why do we have to wait until 2010 to get an all electric vehicle? What have they been doing for the past 5 years? Planning for more big SUV's?:roll:

Yeah, it's automotive companies who are forcing us to demand big vehicles, people would never do that. :roll:

no, but they sure took their time in adapting to what the market wanted.
 

freakyj92

Member
Nov 7, 2007
72
0
0
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Big oil never controlled our vehicle choices. Our vehicle choices caused oil to be big.

How dare you insinuate that we have any control over our own actions.

Well personally, I'm glad that the gas prices are finally helping the stupid people like yourself, my brother and many other stupid americans that buy gas guzzlers just because they could. Totally agree with the OP in that this will finally help move us forward as a country into more efficient cleaner energy not just for cars but energy in general.
 

Mermaidman

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2003
7,987
93
91
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Linux23
These auto manufacturers are fvcking stupid. Gas prices has been going up steadily for the past few years, and they still keep introducing big fvcking SUV's??? These are CEO's that make these decisions, yet the little guy suffers when they lose their jobs.

We have the technology, so give people the choice to buy electric only vehicles now regardless of the range. My commute is only 3 miles to the subway. I could bike if I wanted to, but I live in a bad area, so i'm not going to risk my life to save a few bucks.

Why do we have to wait until 2010 to get an all electric vehicle? What have they been doing for the past 5 years? Planning for more big SUV's?:roll:

Yeah, it's automotive companies who are forcing us to demand big vehicles, people would never do that. :roll:

no, but they sure took their time in adapting to what the market wanted.
Automakers were already planning a gradual change in their product line-up, but the crazy spike in oil prices created a sudden market collapse in the past couple of months. Automakers can't change their products in such a short time.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,333
705
126
Originally posted by: Ktulu
GM union workers set up blockade at Osawa.

Wow this is gonna get ugly quick.

We're going to stay here until General Motors reverses that decision or at the very least, until somebody in General Motors Corporation tries to justify to us why they have violated our brand new collective agreement

LOL, anyone saw the South Park episode where the Canadians went on strike. LOL. :D
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,357
8,446
126
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Your an idiot Snatchface.

Big Oil as you call it has never controlled out vehicle choices. In fact, Big Oil has never made vehicles.

Sorry to rain on your emotionally charged parade with facts.

Incorrectamundo. It is well know that big oil has bought out patents on prior iterations of electric vehicles and fuel efficient engines, and have blocked the introduction of more efficient diesel consumer vehicles in the US.

Your post = fail.

show me a patent. freepatentsonline.com

and you're telling me that 'big oil' is running CARB?

still waiting
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Linux23
These auto manufacturers are fvcking stupid. Gas prices has been going up steadily for the past few years, and they still keep introducing big fvcking SUV's??? These are CEO's that make these decisions, yet the little guy suffers when they lose their jobs.

We have the technology, so give people the choice to buy electric only vehicles now regardless of the range. My commute is only 3 miles to the subway. I could bike if I wanted to, but I live in a bad area, so i'm not going to risk my life to save a few bucks.

Why do we have to wait until 2010 to get an all electric vehicle? What have they been doing for the past 5 years? Planning for more big SUV's?:roll:

Yeah, it's automotive companies who are forcing us to demand big vehicles, people would never do that. :roll:

no, but they sure took their time in adapting to what the market wanted.

You do realize that up until this year trucks were the highest selling vehicles for decades. Looks like that's what the market has been wanted. It's just now had a massive shift towards mileage friendly cars.
 

NL5

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2003
3,286
12
81
Originally posted by: Mermaidman
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Linux23
These auto manufacturers are fvcking stupid. Gas prices has been going up steadily for the past few years, and they still keep introducing big fvcking SUV's??? These are CEO's that make these decisions, yet the little guy suffers when they lose their jobs.

We have the technology, so give people the choice to buy electric only vehicles now regardless of the range. My commute is only 3 miles to the subway. I could bike if I wanted to, but I live in a bad area, so i'm not going to risk my life to save a few bucks.

Why do we have to wait until 2010 to get an all electric vehicle? What have they been doing for the past 5 years? Planning for more big SUV's?:roll:

Yeah, it's automotive companies who are forcing us to demand big vehicles, people would never do that. :roll:

no, but they sure took their time in adapting to what the market wanted.
Automakers were already planning a gradual change in their product line-up, but the crazy spike in oil prices created a sudden market collapse in the past couple of months. Automakers can't change their products in such a short time.

Actually, the demand has been declining hard for several years. Also, IIRC Toyota can have a new vehicle on line in 6 mos.
 

gar3555

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
3,510
0
0
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NL5
Also, IIRC Toyota can have a new vehicle on line in 6 mos.

that's a load of crap.

amen, I've worked for most major automakers, including Toyota, and to refit a working plant for a new model takes much longer than 6mos...seen numerous model changes.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
32
81
MPG is factor of many things, including curb weight.

Why not start mass producting carbon fiber cars (McLaren F1, Enzo, etc.)? Makes them a fraction of the weight and safer too.

Think of like a carbon-fiber Audi A4 with a 4-cylinder turbo diesel and Quattro with a 6-speed MT. I want one!
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
162
106
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
MPG is factor of many things, including curb weight.

Why not start mass producting carbon fiber cars (McLaren F1, Enzo, etc.)? Makes them a fraction of the weight and safer too.

Think of like a carbon-fiber Audi A4 with a 4-cylinder turbo diesel and Quattro with a 6-speed MT. I want one!

You willing to pay $90K for that A4? Aren't most Carbon Fiber cars shaped by hand? Also...if you get in a fender bender...total?

I love the idea as well...but I don't see that being practical as much as I'd love it.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: Regs
Diesel is more expensive than unleaded fuel. F' diseal and F' oil companies. I hate this gawd damn greedy country. Too many rich people holding on to too much money like it's actually worth something sitting in a bank, foundation, or some tax shelter. Money is for the exchange of goods and services and our money is only worth as good as our goods and services.

Yeah, screw the US and their greedy oil companies.

You should move to somewhere else like England where none of that takes place (BP- 2007 Revenue- 291.438 Billion USD)

or the Netherlands (Shell- 2007 Revenue- 355.782 billion USD)

or France (Total S.A.- 2007 Revenue- 153.802 billion)
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: OokiiNeko
Once more for the none P&N crowd:
Ailis Aaron, co-editor of "The Ultimate Car Book 2001" and "The Used Car Book 2000-2001," said: "It would be one thing if there were just a handful of more fuel-efficient cars available outside the U.S., but the reality is that our research turned up at least 129 car models for sale elsewhere at 35mpg or better for combined city/highway purposes, including 86 rated at 40mpg or better combined. The notion that foreign car buyers are somehow different from U.S. car buyers is just another wrong assumption on the part of Detroit. And you can't explain away the difference here by safety standards or EPA rules. Most of the best recent safety innovations came from Europe and Japan -- not the United States. And when it comes to pollution, consider this fact: There are two vehicles in the U.S. that get combined city/highway ratings of 50mpg or better and both of them are hybrids. Outside of the U.S., there are 34 vehicles that get 50mpg or better and 30 of them use 'clean diesel' technology that the EPA says is more fuel efficient and results in less of the pollutants linked to global warming."

:)

So are people saying that if the VW Lupo was offered here in America, it would not sell well?

He lists that there are 129 car models that offer 35+ mpg, then he blames Detroit for the lack of availability here in the US. That makes no sense when you consider that Detroit isn't responsible for all 129 models available elsewhere, and the companies that do make them don't offer them in the US. Is it Detroit's fault that Nissan, Fiat, Toyota, Honda, or Peugeot doesn't offer those models in the US? If those companies thought that the American public wanted those cars, they'd offer them here.


 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,553
834
126
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Now maybe we can start moving forward as a country instead of allowing big oil to control our vehicle choices and destroy the earth. People are not buying fuel hogs anymore, are riding bikes, scooters and now electric vehicles scheduled to be sold by 2010. Without high fuel proces this would never have happened. People are pissed but in the end it is going to be a good thing for everyone - including the auto makers who are now being forced to innovate.

GM closes plants

AWESOME, forget the fact GM laid off 10,000 people and my neighbor who was going to buy a Hummer is either still going to, or he'll find anoter SUV to buy.

So basically nobody is not going to not get a SUV because of this, they'll just have a smaller selection to choose from. And 10,000 will be without a job. What an great situation.

do you really think auto makers will be forced to make all non trucks/SUV's? Every person who wants an SUV will still find one easily, and this move won't make anyone who wanted an SUV to stop and think, and decide on hybrid. My neighbor has his heart set on a H2, he doesn't care if he has to pay $800 a month in gas (I asked) He might not be the norm, but there are more than enough people like him out there. There won't be any less SUV's on the road in 6 months then there would have been if GM had kept the plants open.

I fail to see any good here.



 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,908
16,174
126
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
MPG is factor of many things, including curb weight.

Why not start mass producting carbon fiber cars (McLaren F1, Enzo, etc.)? Makes them a fraction of the weight and safer too.

Think of like a carbon-fiber Audi A4 with a 4-cylinder turbo diesel and Quattro with a 6-speed MT. I want one!

You willing to pay $90K for that A4? Aren't most Carbon Fiber cars shaped by hand? Also...if you get in a fender bender...total?

I love the idea as well...but I don't see that being practical as much as I'd love it.

I am pretty sure the carbon hoods you buy off internet dealers are machine made. I have asked this question before and the response is always, it costs too much. I think we have reached the point where it should be viable.
 

mcmilljb

Platinum Member
May 17, 2005
2,144
2
81
Can I still buy the worse in every class/category Aveo with a OMGROFL license plate?
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
63
91
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: preslove

Intelligent planning requires executives to look down the road in order to innovate. Had GM continued to work on its electric vehicles, taking short term losses, they would be in an extremely advantageous position. What did the idiot executives do? They pulled their electronic vehicles and built more SUVs for short term profit and long term fail.

The current oil price shocks didn't take anyone who was actually paying attention to the supply/demand numbers by surprise. Peak oil is upon us, and smart planning by Honda and Toyota have put them in position to clean up, while short cited idiocy has put GM even further behind.

GM has been betting on hydrogen for a long long time now. so, yeah, short "cited" [sic] idiocy for trying to move into the future rather than a stop-gap hybrid system that could be put together in very short order once the battery tech caught up.

How's that working out? If hydrogen actually gets large scale implementation, it will take years. Toyota is printing money with the prius and GM is hemorrhaging. If they wanted to sell the Hummer brand, they should have sold it 3 years ago. No it's practically worthless. So yeah, short sighted.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,908
16,174
126
Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Let's be honest here- this is an American forum and most members use mpg. I wouldn't go onto an Australian forum and expect them to use the units of measure that are popular in the US.

[puts on evian hat]
This is a tech forum, by default its users are tech oriented. Therefore metric system is preferrable to the POS that is the bastardised Imperial System, aka US customary Units.
[take off naive hat]
 

NL5

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2003
3,286
12
81
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NL5
Also, IIRC Toyota can have a new vehicle on line in 6 mos.

that's a load of crap.

As I said IIRC. I know it was way faster than GM, Ford or Chrysler. I'll try and find the answer and post it.

edit - GM still had plenty of time to see this coming. Short sightedness on their part. Probably because of those damn unions making the CEO's make bad decisions. Dammit!

 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
81
Originally posted by: QueBert
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Now maybe we can start moving forward as a country instead of allowing big oil to control our vehicle choices and destroy the earth. People are not buying fuel hogs anymore, are riding bikes, scooters and now electric vehicles scheduled to be sold by 2010. Without high fuel proces this would never have happened. People are pissed but in the end it is going to be a good thing for everyone - including the auto makers who are now being forced to innovate.

GM closes plants

AWESOME, forget the fact GM laid off 10,000 people and my neighbor who was going to buy a Hummer is either still going to, or he'll find anoter SUV to buy.

So basically nobody is not going to not get a SUV because of this, they'll just have a smaller selection to choose from. And 10,000 will be without a job. What an great situation.

do you really think auto makers will be forced to make all non trucks/SUV's? Every person who wants an SUV will still find one easily, and this move won't make anyone who wanted an SUV to stop and think, and decide on hybrid. My neighbor has his heart set on a H2, he doesn't care if he has to pay $800 a month in gas (I asked) He might not be the norm, but there are more than enough people like him out there. There won't be any less SUV's on the road in 6 months then there would have been if GM had kept the plants open.

I fail to see any good here.
Your friend should buy a used Hummer if he wants one, I bet dealers are basically giving these things away with gas prices the way they are. New cars in general are such a ripoff anyways.

Also, the double digit decreases in truck sales should be proof that most people don't need them bad enough to to justify the extra fuel costs. I'd say your friend is in the minority.
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
0
Whats worse? Someone who owns a hummer and gets 12mpg and lives 2 miles from work and doesn't drive anywhere on the weekend or someone who owns a 50mph car and lives 25 miles from work and drives all over on the weekend?
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
63
91
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Someone who owns a hummer and gets 12mpg and lives 2 miles from work and doesn't drive anywhere on the weekend

These people don't exist.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
If someone wants a hummer, that's up to them and fine by me. What right would I have (or any of you here for that matter) to say they can't do that?
 

potato28

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
8,964
0
0
Originally posted by: Ktulu
http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm...cal-caw-president.html

I was wondering the Unions had to say about this.

This morning's announcement by GM CEO Rick Wagoner has left CAW branch president Chris Buckley slightly upset to say the least. Buckley, who represents workers at the Oshawa truck plant, which GM plans to close in September of next year, said GM's decision is "nothing short of betrayal."

And it will kill most of the Eastern part of the GTA because a lot of people that live in Oshawa and the area around it work for the auto industry that feeds off of that truck plant and the truck plant itself.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,908
16,174
126
Originally posted by: potato28
Originally posted by: Ktulu
http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm...cal-caw-president.html

I was wondering the Unions had to say about this.

This morning's announcement by GM CEO Rick Wagoner has left CAW branch president Chris Buckley slightly upset to say the least. Buckley, who represents workers at the Oshawa truck plant, which GM plans to close in September of next year, said GM's decision is "nothing short of betrayal."

And it will kill most of the Eastern part of the GTA because a lot of people that live in Oshawa and the area around it work for the auto industry that feeds off of that truck plant and the truck plant itself.

Stronach of Magna has to be panicking right now.