GM Boycott anyone?

[deathwalker]

Man...way too may Buger King employees posting on this thread.

 

[alm4rr]

Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
A UAW boycott would be more like it.

 

[imported_electron]

You know what and forgive me if this was mentioned already as I haven't read the whole thread but I blame designers, not auto workers for crappy GM cars. UAW may be putting some strain on GM but they aren't the ones making decisions on design and engineering choices which make the cars what they are. If they would build better cars, that would outsell their competition, they could pay the UAW workers easily and still remain profitable. And I don't see the execs and CEOs that make millions dropping their salaries.

The REAL reason for job cuts isn't that salaries for GM workers are too high, it's that SALES ARE TOO LOW.

 

[SparkyJJO]

boycott GM? no. All it would do is potentially just make them lay off more workers because of it.
I'm a GM fan generally, not saying I like everything about them, they made a few dumb mistakes (like getting rid of the camaro/firebird line and giving ford the market there) but every other car company has made dumb mistakes too.

 

[Cruisin1]

Apparently you don't live in California, because the Unions sure do have a lot of power here. It was pretty clearly proven this past election that they control the state.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

I'd love it if we were the dominant auto maker in the world, but ONLY if we could do so on the merits of our products. Today, we can't. American cars are third-rate, and they don't DESERVE to be the dominant automotive force in the industry.

If GM wants to turn things around and build INTELLIGENT, INNOVATIVE cars, then great, more power to them. If they want to continue building oversized TURDS that suck down gas as fast as you can funnel it in, then I say let them die. They've earned it.

Jason

Obviously they don't make the best cars, but rather than hoping they'll improve, you're rooting for them to fail.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

You proved *nothing* of the sort. Yes, as *percentages* go a 10MPG truck does benefit more than a 30MPG car, but which cars, specifically, are these? They're made up examples, pure and simple. Bottom line: The guy with the Hybrid CAR will spend FAR less on fuel than the guy with the Hybrid truck, *period*.

Jason

Good luck fitting a 4x8 sheet of plywood in your hybrid Civic... *period*

 

[Cruisin1]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

You proved *nothing* of the sort. Yes, as *percentages* go a 10MPG truck does benefit more than a 30MPG car, but which cars, specifically, are these? They're made up examples, pure and simple. Bottom line: The guy with the Hybrid CAR will spend FAR less on fuel than the guy with the Hybrid truck, *period*.

Jason

Good luck fitting a 4x8 sheet of plywood in your hybrid Civic... *period*

Why the hell would you put a pice of plywood in a civic? If I'm driving a civic I probably don't need it for construction...

Look man so you need you SUV, good for you. Now go build your birdhouse and be happy. As for the rest of the population that works in cubicles and has to commute to work every day, the civic hybrid will save us a crapload of money. If we need to get a sheet of plywood then I'll have the damn thing delivered to my house, simple.

 

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

You proved *nothing* of the sort. Yes, as *percentages* go a 10MPG truck does benefit more than a 30MPG car, but which cars, specifically, are these? They're made up examples, pure and simple. Bottom line: The guy with the Hybrid CAR will spend FAR less on fuel than the guy with the Hybrid truck, *period*.

Jason

Good luck fitting a 4x8 sheet of plywood in your hybrid Civic... *period*

You would use a truck for that job.

Don't play that angle, you're starting to sound like Ornery.

 

[tooltime]

no but gm and ford need to change somehow to compete

 

[tooltime]

i do not agree with lost jobs but i feel sorry for them and would like to know what other people suggest they do instead of canning their employees

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

You proved *nothing* of the sort. Yes, as *percentages* go a 10MPG truck does benefit more than a 30MPG car, but which cars, specifically, are these? They're made up examples, pure and simple. Bottom line: The guy with the Hybrid CAR will spend FAR less on fuel than the guy with the Hybrid truck, *period*.

Jason

Good luck fitting a 4x8 sheet of plywood in your hybrid Civic... *period*

You would use a truck for that job.

Don't play that angle, you're starting to sound like Ornery.

Well that's the whole point! Comparing the gas mileage of hybrid cars to hybrid trucks is just idiotic - they have entirely different purposes. ElFenix's original point is valid, a 1 MPG gain, while pathetic on its face, will save a significant amount of gasoline.

And I do sound like ornery, I took that quote almost directly from him.

*comma*

 

[AlienCraft]

AlienCraft predicts they will reopen their assembly lines in China within 3 years.

GM sux big time.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: AmdEmAll

Originally posted by: ondarkness

Originally posted by: Scribe
I have been boycotting American cars for years.

Buy Honda, you are STILL buying American. Most people don't realize that

explain

I think they are saying that many Hondas are manufactured in the USA, compared to many GM products which are made in Canada and Mexico.

I don't know of any cars that are really "american". Most have parts from all over the world.

BMW's made at the Spartanburg, S.C. plant are assembled using ALL AMERICAN MADE PARTS, except the engines which are the ONLY GERMAN COMPONENT.
The US Corporate Whores, Imean the Government allowed them to keep the "Made In Germany" tag inspite of the US manufactured components.

 

[Vic]

Too many people live in the past or in false realities here.
First, the days of blue-collar towns living off one big manufacturing plant went away a long time ago. And good thing too. That type of scenario is bad for workers, not good. In today's information economy, skilled and knowledgeable employees are in more demand and are in a better negotiating position than ever. Back in the blue-collar plant, anyone could twist the wing nut (which is why unions were needed then and not now). America is moving forward, people. GM has gone from being an auto manufacturer to the world largest real estate and commercial financing concern. Making cars for them is almost just a make-work program they are stuck with because of the UAW.
Second, the manufacture of direct-to-consumer products is like making toys. Even cars. Seriously. A car has only like 5k parts, a rather limited service life, and can be build from the ground up in about a single day. Toy manufacturing. Let the Japanese have it. They're not really doing it better than the Americans, but if the public wants to believe that, so be it. GM is moving from toy manufacturing to the real deal, just like GE did in the 80s. And look how well GE has done. Everybody said GE would go out of business if they stopped making TV sets, but today they're the biggest, most profitable company in the world making jet engines, gas turbines, and locomotives. Likewise, GM is moving its manufacturing to bigger concerns. Hybrid vehicles? How about being the first to make a hybrid municipal bus that gets 50% better fuel mileage? Where is Toyota there? *crickets*
Business to business manufacturing is where the real money is at. The consumer market is the high-volume low-margin toy store. But even there, American manufacturers reign at THE most profitable market sector: work trucks. Toyota? Honda? *more crickets* And wait until hybrid REAL use comes out. Not this "let's scam the stupid greenies" tactic Toyota has been doing, but in what GM and Ford will do, using hybrid for its massive super-low-end torque to make real power for real work trucks, affordable to the lowliest contractor.

 

[imported_electron]

Originally posted by: Vic
Too many people live in the past or in false realities here.
First, the days of blue-collar towns living off one big manufacturing plant went away a long time ago. And good thing too. That type of scenario is bad for workers, not good. In today's information economy, skilled and knowledgeable employees are in more demand and are in a better negotiating position than ever. Back in the blue-collar plant, anyone could twist the wing nut (which is why unions were needed then and not now). America is moving forward, people. GM has gone from being an auto manufacturer to the world largest real estate and commercial financing concern. Making cars for them is almost just a make-work program they are stuck with because of the UAW.
Second, the manufacture of direct-to-consumer products is like making toys. Even cars. Seriously. A car has only like 5k parts, a rather limited service life, and can be build from the ground up in about a single day. Toy manufacturing. Let the Japanese have it. They're not really doing it better than the Americans, but if the public wants to believe that, so be it. GM is moving from toy manufacturing to the real deal, just like GE did in the 80s. And look how well GE has done. Everybody said GE would go out of business if they stopped making TV sets, but today they're the biggest, most profitable company in the world making jet engines, gas turbines, and locomotives. Likewise, GM is moving its manufacturing to bigger concerns. Hybrid vehicles? How about being the first to make a hybrid municipal bus that gets 50% better fuel mileage? Where is Toyota there? *crickets*
Business to business manufacturing is where the real money is at. The consumer market is the high-volume low-margin toy store. But even there, American manufacturers reign at THE most profitable market sector: work trucks. Toyota? Honda? *more crickets* And wait until hybrid REAL use comes out. Not this "let's scam the stupid greenies" tactic Toyota has been doing, but in what GM and Ford will do, using hybrid for its massive super-low-end torque to make real power for real work trucks, affordable to the lowliest contractor.

:thumbsup:

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051121/ap_on_bi_ge/gm

GM is cutting all kinds of American jobs. It's worse than the Flint, Mich. layoffs of years ago.

Four years ago, I wanted a GM car badly. Two years and three months ago, I bought one. Last year, I wanted to work for GM as an engineer. Since then. their recent decisions, including but not limited to the cutting of the Zeta architecture (the Firebird/Camaro replacement) and the excessive and shameless rebadging of vehicles in their whole line (more so than any other company. most recently: Solstice/SKY/Opel GT; ION/Cobalt) I think I want to boycott GM vehicles (unless I get a free one), and I wonder if others feel the same.

you reap what you sow, ya know

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Vic
Too many people live in the past or in false realities here.
First, the days of blue-collar towns living off one big manufacturing plant went away a long time ago. And good thing too. That type of scenario is bad for workers, not good. In today's information economy, skilled and knowledgeable employees are in more demand and are in a better negotiating position than ever. Back in the blue-collar plant, anyone could twist the wing nut (which is why unions were needed then and not now). America is moving forward, people. GM has gone from being an auto manufacturer to the world largest real estate and commercial financing concern. Making cars for them is almost just a make-work program they are stuck with because of the UAW.
Second, the manufacture of direct-to-consumer products is like making toys. Even cars. Seriously. A car has only like 5k parts, a rather limited service life, and can be build from the ground up in about a single day. Toy manufacturing. Let the Japanese have it. They're not really doing it better than the Americans, but if the public wants to believe that, so be it. GM is moving from toy manufacturing to the real deal, just like GE did in the 80s. And look how well GE has done. Everybody said GE would go out of business if they stopped making TV sets, but today they're the biggest, most profitable company in the world making jet engines, gas turbines, and locomotives. Likewise, GM is moving its manufacturing to bigger concerns. Hybrid vehicles? How about being the first to make a hybrid municipal bus that gets 50% better fuel mileage? Where is Toyota there? *crickets*
Business to business manufacturing is where the real money is at. The consumer market is the high-volume low-margin toy store. But even there, American manufacturers reign at THE most profitable market sector: work trucks. Toyota? Honda? *more crickets* And wait until hybrid REAL use comes out. Not this "let's scam the stupid greenies" tactic Toyota has been doing, but in what GM and Ford will do, using hybrid for its massive super-low-end torque to make real power for real work trucks, affordable to the lowliest contractor.

LOL, typical attitude of someone who hasn't been taken advantage of. This country is on track to be service workers for the rest of the world. We'll all be working for Wal-Mart or a similar "Big Box" retailer or food service company. The Farming will be done in Eastern Europe or China, the manufacturing will be done in China or Africa and there will be NO lifting of all boats by the rising tide. The boats of the masses will all be chained to the bottom.
This is the Administration that just cut funding for school lunches, but extended tax cuts for the most wealthy of the nation. God Forbid they should have to part with any of their ill gotten gain.
Next you'll say that the Civil Rights Legislation of the 1960's is unnecessary to since Whites are the numerical minority.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
LOL, typical attitude of someone who hasn't been taken advantage of. This country is on track to be service workers for the rest of the world. We'll all be working for Wal-Mart or a similar "Big Box" retailer or food service company. The Farming will be done in Eastern Europe or China, the manufacturing will be done in China or Africa and there will be NO lifting of all boats by the rising tide. The boats of the masses will all be chained to the bottom.
This is the Administration that just cut funding for school lunches, but extended tax cuts for the most wealthy of the nation. God Forbid they should have to part with any of their ill gotten gain.
Next you'll say that the Civil Rights Legislation of the 1960's is unnecessary to since Whites are the numerical minority.

:roll:

Typical attitude of idiot alarmist leftist who wrongly thinks information is worthless and all the wealth in the world is static.

And nice strawman bringing up civil rights. That's even somehow remotely related to any argument here... how?

:roll:

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: astrosfan90

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Squisher
It won't give me much joy, but it certainly will be expected when all IT work is done by foreign companies. Don't worry we can all get jobs at McDonald's.


As for foreign manufacturers making cars here, very little of the content in those cars are made here and all the profits of those foreign cars goes immediately offshore.

Company....Employees........Major plants
GM ...........194,000.............. 82
Ford .........128,000 ..............35
DCX ...........76,600 ..............24
Toyota .......31,000............... 8
Honda ........15,900 ...............8
Nissan ........25,000............... 8

Actually most foreign cars that are sold in the US are made in the US. All that you see here is who is effecient with labor and falcilties and who is not.

What good is GM if they are laying off people and closing facilities because they have far too much overhead. Since toyota recently took the #2 spot away from ford, it is probably fairly safe to assume that toyota now makes more cars in the US than ford does. And from what I have been reading toyota offshores less work than the big 3, so might want to rethrink where that money immediantly goes.

Care to back your statements up with facts and numbers?

What I see is Japanese companies with a couple of factories in the US that employ a token number of employees so they can perpetuate the ignorant idea that cars made by Toyota are "American".

Toyota makes 62-65% of its vehicles in the US(you can google it), so this is far more than just a few token factories. Also Toyota typically produces 3-4 cars per plant where GM/ford only does one car one plant. Looking at the employment numbers and the 62% made in the USA rate, it appears toyota is putting together cars with fewer people than ford or gm.

 

[Glavinsolo]

GM is unefficient with their car making process. It got too fat and now it is doing everything it can to not die from a heart attack. If they want to regain customers they need to do what works. What works? Well look at what VW and Hyundai had to do to get customers. They upped the warranty, (I'm sure this has been said in many places) which could turn a lot of heads for GM if they did the same.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: BD2003
They HAVE to cut the jobs, otherwise they go out of business. Boycott them if you wish, they make POS cars anyway.

And while most japanese cars are made in america, they are *designed* in japan, and the japanese design is apparently superior.

I blame crappy American education for that. Modern mechanical engineering REQUIRES numerical methods (finite elements, finite differences), yet American engineering educators don't see any real use of them until at least their master's level. Americans are too often taught that you can land a good job with a bachelor's degree alone, and they don't care about such seemingly "extra" education that is so necessary for market competition.

(Finite element analysis, for example, is the only way to make a truly optimized structure with uniform stresses and without unnecessary balast weight... without the errors involved with the assumptions of an undergraduate solid mechanics course and the resulting high factors of safety to accomodate unknown errors.)

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: kevinthenerdGM Boycott anyone?

Hell Yeah!

Oh wait, a boycott makes no sense you freaking idiot.

Boycotting is the only power we have as consumers. It's old-school and almost populist in nature, but such socialist measures are all we have to stop crappy companies who spend too much money on marketing and overly draw from historical success.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: desy
I think the the plant closures and Delphi should be enough for UAW members to start crapping their pants and though I feel for the displaced workers its like gang green and you have to sacrifice the limb.
I don't have a problem so much with the wage these guys get but the perks are unsustainble.

All these OT idiots don't understand how much money a head office generates with engineering, accounting, advertising and on and on.
You don't get the second economy when you don't HAVE the main corporate office in the country. Jap cars are well made, American cars are getting much better, you don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Exactly. This "trickle-down" effect doesn't work when the money isn't coming straight home. (Reaganomics doesn't hold.)

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: kevinthenerdGM Boycott anyone?

Hell Yeah!

Oh wait, a boycott makes no sense you freaking idiot.

Boycotting is the only power we have as consumers. It's old-school and almost populist in nature, but such socialist measures are all we have to stop crappy companies who spend too much money on marketing and overly draw from historical success.

You pro union fools are as stupid as the unions, but then that would make sense. A boycott? So you think a boycott can make GM not close plants? Please explain the philosophy and the logistics. You want to hurt GM's bottom line hoping they will see your way? Besides crappy vehicles the UAW is GM's biggest problem, the numbers don't lie. GM has to reduce costs, PERIOD. That is their only hope. Either the UAW get's their act together or they are in bigger trouble than they think. GM is posturing themselves for bankruptcy protection if need be and if that happens the UAW is done, kaput, extinct so go ahead and boycott and speed up gravity a little. :roll: