• We should now be fully online following an overnight outage. Apologies for any inconvenience, we do not expect there to be any further issues.

GM Boycott anyone?

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
81
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: ondarkness
Originally posted by: Scribe
I have been boycotting American cars for years.

Buy Honda, you are STILL buying American. Most people don't realize that :(

explain

This is all from memory and might be totally off.
Honda has a factory in Ohio and maybe another elsewhere.
Hundyai has a factory in Alabama.
Toyota has a factory in Kentucky.
Mitsubishi has a factory in Illinois.
Nissan has a factory in Tennesee.
BMW has a factory in South Carolina.
Subaru has a factory in Indiana.

Not all Japanese cars sold here are made here, but many are.


Honda Accord is the most American built car you can Buy. It is built in Marysville Ohio and 98.9% of the parts used to make the car are American made and sourced. Ford Comes close with around 93-95%, but that number for Ford may have changed in the last three years.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: OS
source

stop smoking cock
"Without Google, some nerds would starve... " :roll:

GM pays benefits to its employees that exceed wages.

Originally posted by: Googer
Honda Accord is the most American built car you can Buy. It is built in Marysville Ohio and 98.9% of the parts used to make the car are American made and sourced. Ford Comes close with around 93-95%, but that number for Ford may have changed in the last three years.
And yet the value-added for that Accord is still in Japan.
 

DaWhim

Lifer
Feb 3, 2003
12,985
1
81
That sinking feeling
Nov 17th 2005 | DETROIT AND LONDON
From The Economist print edition



The world's biggest carmaker is at sea and floundering

Get article background

FOR years General Motors (GM) was the undisputed titan of the world's car industry, effortlessly dominating everything. Now, to suppliers, employees and pensioners it must seem less like a titan and more like the Titanic, holed below the water-line, sinking slowly by the bow to the sound of loud shocks and bangs as bulkheads give way, one after the other. The chief executive on the bridge, Rick Wagoner, can rush around and bark orders, but to little effect.

At its peak in the early 1960s, the giant controlled over half the American car market and set the standards by which most of the world's manufacturing industry was measured. But it has been more than a generation since GM's dominance went unchallenged and, despite billions of dollars invested in new factories and vehicles, it has suffered a relentless decline in market share (see chart). Earnings have plunged, especially in its core North American market. The good ship GM scraped even more icebergs lately, the most recent being an announcement last week that it would have to restate earnings for 2001, due to improperly booked credits from suppliers.

Although this latest news is relatively minor (affecting a four-year-old financial report by only $400m) it had the sound of another groaning bulkhead and made people nervous. Since the announcement, GM's stock price has plunged even further. And for the first time since the carmaker's last big brush with disaster?in 1992, when the company came within 40 minutes of bankruptcy?GM's bonds are back in the junkyard. Analysts and observers are muttering again about possible bankruptcy.

Exactly how and why things have gone so wrong is a matter of debate. Certainly, the situation was dire 13 years ago when a newly energised GM board flexed its muscle. They turned to Jack Smith, who in turn signed on Mr Wagoner, then barely 40, as one of his top lieutenants. The new management closed plants, cut the workforce, sold lacklustre component operations and seemingly restored much of the company's former lustre. By the boom years of the mid-1990s, GM was again rolling up record profits.

Yet, despite a few exceptional years, sales continued to decline. Critics, such as Dan Gorrell of Strategic Visions, a Californian consulting firm, say GM concentrated more on finance and marketing than designing and making cars. Indeed, after the company's annual meeting, Mr Wagoner conceded: ?If we had a chance to rerun the last five years, we probably would have done a little more thinking about making sure that each product was distinctive and had a chance to be successful.?

GM paid a lot of attention to the development of its newest, full-sized sport-utility vehicles (SUVs), which will arrive in the showrooms early in 2006. But even the company's bullish ?car tsar?, the vice-chairman, Bob Lutz, admits that the potential market for these vehicles has declined dramatically with higher oil prices.

Misreading the SUV market might be bad enough, but GM also played down the need for a new generation of more fuel-efficient ?crossover? vehicles. These are like SUVs, but lighter. The company scored a hit with its first models, such as the Chevrolet Equinox, but by the time the rest arrive Japanese competitors are likely to have taken control of the segment. GM refused to believe there would be enough demand to justify investment in petrol-electric hybrids. Yet again, it is now racing to catch up in a part of the market where the Japanese overwhelmingly dominate.

But products are only part of the problem at GM. Mr Wagoner was able to put a positive spin on GM's bleak, third-quarter earnings report (losses are $3.8 billion so far this year) by announcing that the United Auto Workers Union (UAW) would grant unprecedented concessions, shaving $1 billion from the carmaker's mounting health-care bill. He has turned his attention to attacking so-called legacy costs. The huge cutbacks of the 1990s saddled GM with nearly three retirees for every active worker. Yet the situation may only get worse in the near-term, with more closures expected to be announced next month. This could amount to up to six factories being shut.

Then there is the worsening situation at Delphi. Made up of former GM parts operations, the supplier is struggling to stay alive under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Its chief executive, Steve Miller, has given warning that he may ask the bankruptcy court to overturn the firm's current labour contract. If that happens, Delphi's well-paid American workers could suddenly find themselves taking home a meagre $9 an hour. UAW leaders are threatening to strike if Mr Miller goes ahead. A walkout could disrupt the entire motor industry, but as Delphi's biggest customer by far, GM would suffer the most.

Not everything has gone wrong on Mr Wagoner's watch, of course. He has been successful in expanding abroad. The company's European operations are slowly recovering and Brazil has bounced back. GM's acquisition of South Korea's Daewoo is looking like a bargain and is doing exceptionally well. Then there is China, where Mr Smith defied conventional wisdom at the time by being one of the first to open an assembly plant. Mr Wagoner has since ramped up Chinese operations, lining up a string of highly profitable joint-ventures and assembly operations. Ironically, it is the Buick badge that has connected best with Chinese motorists, and soon the brand may sell more cars in Asia than at home, where its staid image leaves many Americans cold.

Buick epitomises GM's challenge as it seeks to improve its global operations while reducing its dependence on America. One of Mr Wagoner's first steps as chief executive was to pull the plug on the ailing Oldsmobile division. He has repeatedly insisted that he has no intention of scuttling any more of GM's eight surviving car brands. But with its market share only around 25%, it is becoming increasingly difficult to justify the economics of feeding so many car divisions with truly new and exciting products.

The mystery passenger

As if Mr Wagoner did not have enough to worry about, there is Kirk Kerkorian. The reclusive Las Vegas billionaire now owns 9.9% of GM, a stake which has so far lost him a great deal of money, at least on paper. The octogenarian investor is ?a difficult taskmaster?, cautions Gerry Meyers, a former chief executive of American Motors and now a professor at the University of Michigan. If things do not turn around, he expects Mr Kerkorian ?will make himself very visible.? Mr Kerkorian made that clear when he once mounted an ultimately unsuccessful takeover bid for Chrysler. He is reportedly angling for a seat on the GM board for one of his own lieutenants, Jerry York, a former Chrysler executive.

Along with factory cutbacks, Mr Wagoner is planning to sell off a large stake in the company's profitable finance subsidiary, General Motors Acceptance Corp. Trying to predict his remaining options has become something of a parlour game in Detroit circles. Some are betting that GM will end up in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, now a popular move among American companies saddled with burdensome debts and high labour costs. Others give warning that such a move would simply alienate potential buyers of GM cars, making the situation graver still. Consumers will worry about warranties and the resale value of cars. What is clear is that GM's options are steadily diminishing and its still sizeable financial resources are being drained away at a frightening rate. At the current pace, it may not have the momentum to reach a safe port.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: DaWhim
first of all, WSJ considers that's a form of outsourcing of labor from retailer to consumer. ikea comparison was the example I remembered reading that article long time ago. Ikea makes the furnitures ready to assemble, not DIY. if you are thinking about DIY, try home depot.

well, you are going out of the originally question that was asked. it should be how service jobs can be outsourced. cashier job was a simple how it can be outsourced. if you think outsoucing is limited to country to country, that's your problem.
I would be very interested in reading the article where WSJ justifies calling passing on cost-savings to the consumer as outsourcing.
As to Home Depot reference, that's just more stupidity. There's nothing you can buy or DIY at a Home Depot that a contractor couldn't do as well. Is that outsourcing? Or are we just pretending to forget that more than half the people in this country work for small businesses?
OMG teh corps!!!
 

Conky

Lifer
May 9, 2001
10,709
0
0
This has to be about the most retarded premise offered up in the history of this forum. Boycott GM because they are forced to layoff US workers... :roll:

Maybe if people stopped buying vehicles made in foreign countries or from "USA made but Foreign labled" brands then people wouldn't be losing all these jobs in the first place. Duh.

If any of you rice-driving guys in the US realized how much it impacts the economy of this country then you would never buy a foreign labled vehicle again.

Ford, GM, Chrysler all try to buy as much of the components for their cars and provide as many jobs for our country as possible. You can't say this for the Japs who are looking to rip our manufacturing hearts out.

I remember talking with some old WW2 vets a few years ago and they had a fine point... never forget and always buy American if possible.

 

DaWhim

Lifer
Feb 3, 2003
12,985
1
81
Originally posted by: Vic

I would be very interested in reading the article where WSJ justifies calling passing on cost-savings to the consumer as outsourcing.
As to Home Depot reference, that's just more stupidity. There's nothing you can buy or DIY at a Home Depot that a contractor couldn't do as well. Is that outsourcing? Or are we just pretending to forget that more than half the people in this country work for small businesses?
OMG teh corps!!!

the article was at least 6 months ago, I wish I can find it and without paying for it.

you have to compare tradition funiture store and ikea to see how they operate differently to see how ikea "outsource" the labor to buyers?

I said "try home depot" because it is DIY. for ikea, it is not DIY. I don't know how it is buying something readily assemble from ikea will consider DIY in your dictionary, but it is definitely not. stupidity because you misread what I meant.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: OS
source

stop smoking cock
"Without Google, some nerds would starve... " :roll:

GM pays benefits to its employees that exceed wages.

Originally posted by: Googer
Honda Accord is the most American built car you can Buy. It is built in Marysville Ohio and 98.9% of the parts used to make the car are American made and sourced. Ford Comes close with around 93-95%, but that number for Ford may have changed in the last three years.
And yet the value-added for that Accord is still in Japan.



What do you mean the Accord is still in Japan?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: DaWhim
the article was at least 6 months ago, I wish I can find it and without paying for it.

you have to compare tradition funiture store and ikea to see how they operate differently to see how ikea "outsource" the labor to buyers?

I said "try home depot" because it is DIY. for ikea, it is not DIY. I don't know how it is buying something readily assemble from ikea will consider DIY in your dictionary, but it is definitely not. stupidity because you misread what I meant.
Not at all. I didn't misread anything. It's just stupidity to think Ikea is "outsourcing," even to consumers. What they are doing is reducing costs to pass along to the consumer and improve their competitive edge. The RTA aspect is just a function of that, not the purpose. By making their products RTA, they reduce packaging size, enabling them to consolidate manufacturing and distribution, and save themselves a fscking sh!tload in shipment costs. In addition, they can greatly increase the marketing range of their retail centers because consumers can more easily self-deliver these well-packaged RTA products to areas well beyond traditional furniture delivery services (which are usually local only). This "outsourced" labor is the least consideration in Ikea's business model. Hell, they even offer home delivery and assembly services just like any other furniture store.

Cliffs: The secret of Ikea's success is the relatively small boxes of tightly packed furniture parts, not the allen wrenches.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: Googer
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: OS
source

stop smoking cock
"Without Google, some nerds would starve... " :roll:

GM pays benefits to its employees that exceed wages.

Originally posted by: Googer
Honda Accord is the most American built car you can Buy. It is built in Marysville Ohio and 98.9% of the parts used to make the car are American made and sourced. Ford Comes close with around 93-95%, but that number for Ford may have changed in the last three years.
And yet the value-added for that Accord is still in Japan.
What do you mean the Accord is still in Japan?
I said the value added is still in Japan, regardless of how many parts are American made.
The value added in automobile manufacturing is in engineering and design, and that is done in Japan. So that is where the money goes.
 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
1
76
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Googer
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: OS
source

stop smoking cock
"Without Google, some nerds would starve... " :roll:

GM pays benefits to its employees that exceed wages.

Originally posted by: Googer
Honda Accord is the most American built car you can Buy. It is built in Marysville Ohio and 98.9% of the parts used to make the car are American made and sourced. Ford Comes close with around 93-95%, but that number for Ford may have changed in the last three years.
And yet the value-added for that Accord is still in Japan.
What do you mean the Accord is still in Japan?
I said the value added is still in Japan, regardless of how many parts are American made.
The value added in automobile manufacturing is in engineering and design, and that is done in Japan. So that is where the money goes.

Actually that's not completely true. Alot of honda engineering work is done in the US now;

Here's a look at one piece of the development program for the 1998 Honda Accord coupe, which was designed and engineered in the U.S., and is being manufactured exclusively in Marysville, Ohio.

source

The Acura Division introduces the CL series, the first U.S.-designed, engineered and manufactured model offered by a luxury import nameplate.

source

More than 75% of the cars and light trucks Honda sells in the U.S. were built in North America. Increasingly, many of these products are developed in America as well, including the Honda Civic Coupe, Element, Pilot and Ridgeline - and the Acura TL and MDX.

source
 

DeeKnow

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2002
2,470
0
71
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
I think I want to boycott GM vehicles (unless I get a free one), and I wonder if others feel the same.

damn.... you mean people still buy them???

 

Gillbot

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
28,830
17
81
The sad thing is, there really isn't a GM vehicle I'd consider purchasing other than the Corvette and I just don't feel like dropping 50+K on one.