Get healthy or else, say employers (Obamacare)

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zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
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Why would you think Government, that same Government that is 18 Trillion Dollars in debt, would be a better manager of health care than Free Markets?
-John
Because every country with government health care has better results and lower costs than the private system we had. Actually, we still have a mostly private system. The only thing obamacare actually did was it forced everyone to buy insurance, eliminated low cost/low benefit plans, redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor to pay some of their premiums. The government doesn't run any of the plans like it's soviet russia.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
Corporations are chartered by the government of the people & therefore are obligated to meet the terms of their charter. A corporation's job is whatever we the people define it to be.

That applies to all kinds of social welfare- SS, SSDI, Workmen's comp, UI & safety to name a few.
Lol, one of the laws on the books is that a corporation is obligated to make as much money for its shareholders as it can.

Precedent: ebay vs. Newmark

http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2...ons-are-legally-required-to-maximize-profits/
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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I call bullshit on this. Here are the ACA requirements for Employer-provided HSA plans for 2015:

2015 HSA requirements:



Your employer decided to to with a $3700 deductible rather than retain its 2700 deductible from last year. Don't blame the ACA.

As usual, facts have no relevance to right wing opinion. He'll be back, making the same false claim over & over, no matter how many times the truth gets mentioned.

Willful blind spots are a feature of the headset.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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The disconnect is that Jhhnn assumes laws are written for or in some way by "we the people". They are not.

They're written by our representatives, whom we elect. Ultimate authority rests with the people.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Why would you think Government, that same Government that is 18 Trillion Dollars in debt, would be a better manager of health care than Free Markets?

It seems easy to see, that they will only accelerate the problem, that is healthcare.

It fucks over the young, to pay for the old.

You are a proggie.

-John
I don't think the government is a better manager overall. I just think the government will allow fewer people to be screwed over, resulting in the rest of us paying more. And all health insurance fucks over the young to pay for the old, Obamacare just does so at a sharper rate.

I'm no proggie; I just realize that sometimes they are right. I'm a conservative libertarian, but not everything I'd prefer is practical, and sometimes I have to be willing to give up some of my ideological preferences (e.g. limited government) to realize another (e.g. no American without health insurance.)

I call bullshit on this. Here are the ACA requirements for Employer-provided HSA plans for 2015:

2015 HSA requirements:

Your employer decided to to with a $3700 deductible rather than retain its 2700 deductible from last year. Don't blame the ACA.
It's a bit more complicated calculation than that, but it's definitely not my employer. I'm one of the owners and we weren't even aware this change was happening until we received our individual policy holder letters in the mail - for some reason our company notification, which is supposed to precede individual policy holder notification, lagged a week or two afterward. For our plan per BCBS-TN, $3,700 was the least allowable deductible, so BCBS-TN made that adjustment and adjusted our monthly premiums a bit. (Not $1,000 worth since there are now things they must provide for free; I think I saved maybe $300 per year IIRC.) From what I understand, it's a fairly complicated calculation which depends on employee salary mix. BCBS-TN was quite specific that this was a change mandated by the ACA, not their change due to increased costs mandated by the ACA.

As one of the owners I was involved in the decision as to which health insurance to buy, or even whether we would be able to furnish health insurance at all. Our company actually pays more now, not less. Fortunately some of our "inside information" turned out to be 100% wrong and we were able to continue furnishing health insurance, but the company had to pay more and we had to drop to a less desirable policy. We were on Blue Network P, which has a very broad network of doctors and facilities; we're now on the cheaper Network S, which pays less, has a much narrower network of doctors and facilities but costs less. One of my doctors doesn't accept Network S at all, and the three others have posted signs stating that they do not accept Network S for new patients.
 
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cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
They're written by our representatives, whom we elect. Ultimate authority rests with the people.

They are mainly written by lobbyists.

Take the ACA as a good example; Many TBDs and also holes taht would be filled in later by government appointees.

Taxpayers have no further input.

Given the retention rate for politicians; unless they retire, screw up legally or fail to bring home the bacon; they are normally there in DC for as long as they wish.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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I love it. Werepossum offers anecdote, shira counters with an authoritative source, then werepossum merely elaborates on the anecdote, as if doing so makes it true.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
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I love it. Werepossum offers anecdote, shira counters with an authoritative source, then werepossum merely elaborates on the anecdote, as if doing so makes it true.

Um his employer is apparently using the ACA as an excuse to pass costs along. I dont see how a weblink refutes that. This is the big disconnect you guys have with this law. There are winners and losers. Whenever a loser complains you just link an article that says its not true everybody is a winner! I mean i guess if you REALLY wanted to be right on the internet you could paypal werepossum $1,000 so he can also be a winner. Give to the needy man.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Um his employer is apparently using the ACA as an excuse to pass costs along. I dont see how a weblink refutes that. This is the big disconnect you guys have with this law. There are winners and losers. Whenever a loser complains you just link an article that says its not true everybody is a winner! I mean i guess if you REALLY wanted to be right on the internet you could paypal werepossum $1,000 so he can also be a winner. Give to the needy man.

Please. Werepossum claims that the ACA demands the higher deductible. Shira's link offers otherwise. In response, werepossum just repeats the original assertion w/ embellishment, as if that lends him credibility.

Winners & losers? Undoubtedly. Misinformation & false attribution? Doubly so.

Only one piece of actual evidence has been provided in the HSA deductible discussion- shira's link.

I'll go with that evidence until more is provided. It's the only intelligent thing to do.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
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My company just implemented the wellness check stuff. Its attached to money they put in our HSA for us to use.

If you don't do the wellness checks, they only put $500 in. If you do the wellness checks and do well with them, they give you up to $500 more on your HSA depending on the results.

At first, I thought I wasn't going to get shit because I have Diabeetus...but I did it anyway and ended up getting the full $500. They really only care about whether or not you are overweight and have complications due to that. My Diabeetus was fine with them (them as in the person who did my wellness check. Not my employer) as long as it was controlled. I used the money they put in my HSA to get a Inslin pump... Ive wanted one for a while now :)

I believe my deductible is $2300
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Um his employer is apparently using the ACA as an excuse to pass costs along. I dont see how a weblink refutes that. This is the big disconnect you guys have with this law. There are winners and losers. Whenever a loser complains you just link an article that says its not true everybody is a winner! I mean i guess if you REALLY wanted to be right on the internet you could paypal werepossum $1,000 so he can also be a winner. Give to the needy man.
Definitely not my employer. I'm an owner; I see the books. It's possible I suppose that BCBS intentionally shaded the language to raise the deductible to cover new costs associated, but that doesn't seem likely. BCBS-Tennessee is a not-for-profit, so they have little reason to obscure the exact cause (which in any case would be the same basic reason.)

EDIT: Now I'm interested. I'm going to kick this to our ombudsman and see what gives.
 
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