Get healthy or else, say employers (Obamacare)

[bshole]

This is actually an argument for national healthcare; take your employer completely out of the equation and you can be as unhealthy as you want! (Until the gov't starts in on this line of thinking too, but that'll take longer.)

No the government should want you to be unhealthy, it saves them money in the long run. They could force all retirees to start up smoking to get their retirement checks. Hey old dude, if you want this here SS check, we gotta verify that you smoked your daily pack of federally mandated and provided smokes....

 

[Strk]

Diabetes gets worse as you get older, and it is not easily preventable. It is very complicated and the drugs you use to treat it can make you gain weight. My wife is not overweight and she came down with diabetes. The older you get the harder it is to keep going. The older you get the more likely you will have other health complications like a bad or worn out rotator cuff, Knees that go bad and keep you from running, Parkinsons, Gout, Arthritis, MS, Glacoma, poor circulation, etc., etc., etc. Exercise does not cure everything. Maybe you will have cancer and you penis will fall off.

High blood Pressure is just about hereditary in white men over 30. With age you everything from teeth, to eyesight take a hit. Joints ware you and then you cant even run or do real exercise. Many older adults experience severe chronic back pain.

So the CEO that has a limousine a private club, and 5 million dollar bonus kind of conveniently wants to be an evil monster. Maybe the Government will do away with all business deductions and credits and take all his bonus in taxes. Who knows what will happen in the future.

There's a difference in trying to be healthy and having health problems and doing nothing and causing health problems though.

Using your diabetes example. I know diabetics who manage it very well. I also know diabetics who have had parts amputated. If you can get a benefit for managing your (or wife's, I should say) diabetes, while the person polishing off a thing of KFC every night doesn't, I say go for it.

 

[OverVolt]

My company fines you for not participating, It's fucked up and we see it as heavy handed big brother shit.

It's not "your company" that's just part of the ACA. Participate or else. Whereas health used to be a protected health status. So the EEOC is suing the shit out of the worst offenders like Honeywell.

You guys voted for this shit now you got it congrats.

 

[bradley]

Diabetes gets worse as you get older, and it is not easily preventable. It is very complicated and the drugs you use to treat it can make you gain weight. My wife is not overweight and she came down with diabetes. The older you get the harder it is to keep going. The older you get the more likely you will have other health complications like a bad or worn out rotator cuff, Knees that go bad and keep you from running, Parkinsons, Gout, Arthritis, MS, Glacoma, poor circulation, etc., etc., etc. Exercise does not cure everything. Maybe you will have cancer and you penis will fall off.

High blood Pressure is just about hereditary in white men over 30. With age you everything from teeth, to eyesight take a hit. Joints ware you and then you cant even run or do real exercise. Many older adults experience severe chronic back pain.

So the CEO that has a limousine a private club, and 5 million dollar bonus kind of conveniently wants to be an evil monster. Maybe the Government will do away with all business deductions and credits and take all his bonus in taxes. Who knows what will happen in the future.

In Okinawa and most of Japan, men and women routinely live well past 90 years-old with a great quality of life. Cancer, heart disease, arthritis, osteoporosis, diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's etc. is virtually non-existent there. They also experience the lowest infant mortality rates in the world.

Americans just have become diseased conditioned by a corrupt health care system and pharmaceutical industry. With new statin guidelines alone, 1 in 3 Americans will be recommended to take these pharmaceutical poisons.

And the ACA now allows pharmaceutical corporations a direct backdoor to push their wares, without now ever having to handsomely incentive doctors to prescribe them. By all means, please enjoy this new health care paradigm and disease management being imposed by dictate on all US citizens.

I guess pharma sales reps, who are nothing but glorified telemarketers, will be looking for new work soon. In that respect, the ACA is definitely reducing costs.

Ex Pharma Sales Rep speaks the truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIm8fHxqUAM

Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Dr...dp/1935278592/

 

[Strk]

In Okinawa and most of Japan, men and women routinely live well past 90 years-old with a great quality of life. Cancer, heart disease, arthritis, osteoporosis, diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's etc. is virtually non-existent there. They also experience the lowest infant mortality rates in the world.

Americans just have become diseased conditioned by a corrupt health care system and pharmaceutical industry. With new statin guidelines alone, 1 in 3 Americans will be recommended to take these pharmaceutical poisons.

And the ACA now allows pharmaceutical corporations a direct backdoor to push their wares, without now ever having to handsomely incentive doctors to prescribe them. By all means, please enjoy this new health care paradigm and disease management being imposed by dictate on all US citizens.

I guess pharma sales reps, who are nothing but glorified telemarketers, will be looking for new work soon. In that respect, the ACA is definitely reducing costs.

Ex Pharma Sales Rep speaks the truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIm8fHxqUAM

Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Dr...dp/1935278592/

Or it could be that Japan just has a better health care system that promotes better and healthier living. It is also considerably more affordable and encourages people to use it.

As for your claim about the lack of certain ailments, let's start with cancer: http://healthhubs.net/cancer/cancer-rates-in-the-usa-compared-to-japan/

And while ours sucks, some countries are doing quite well compared to Japan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_system#International_comparisons

And always a good special to watch: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

 

[Subyman]

If it's not your company, it'll be your government.

What, you think Uncle Sam won't bring the hammer down on people if and when we get universal healthcare?

I don't care for either option. I'm not familiar with how other countries have implemented their universal healthcare, but I'd like to think they don't tax "fatties" more than anyone else. An issue is who oversees the amount unhealthy people pay over healthy people? Is it equitable compared to potential future health problems or is an ethereal parameter that corporations can abuse?

 

[Matt1970]

404 - Obamacare not found.

It was 20% under a HIPAA law passed by Republican Congress in 1996! Didn't hear a pip from the right about that. But Obama expands it by half as much, and it's all his fault? Thanks, Obama.

Hey, he found the Obamacare.

 

[OverVolt]

The nerve of insurance companies being able to benefit people trying to be healthy!

Yea thats not how the real world works at all.

 

[OverVolt]

Hey, he found the Obamacare.

The wellness plans have much more teeth in them because of the ACA.

Your employer can now request more of your health information. Hence why the EEOC has begun suing, which shocked, just shocked CEOs who supported obamcare. Apparently the wellness programs were the only thing big corporations were interested in and if they have to fight to get them in court they are having second thoughts.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/29/us-usa-healthcare-wellness-exclusive-idUSKCN0JD0AC20141129

That should be illuminating on the discussion.

CARROTS AND STICKS

Obamacare allows financial incentives for workers taking part in workplace wellness programs of up to 50 percent of their monthly premiums, deductibles, and other costs. That translates into hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars in extra annual costs for those who do not participate.

Typically, participation means filling out detailed health questionnaires, undergoing medical screenings, and in some cases attending weight-loss or smoking-cessation programs.

One of the arguments presented in the lawsuit against three employers is that requiring medical testing violates the Americans with Disabilities Act.

That 1990 law, according to employment-law attorney Joseph Lazzarotti of Jackson Lewis P.C. in Morristown, N.J., largely prohibits requiring medical tests as part of employment.

"You can't make medical inquiries unless it's consistent with job-necessity, or part of a voluntary wellness program," he said.

The lawsuits are based on the view that it is no longer voluntary if employees face up to $4,000 in penalties for non-participation, loss of insurance or even their jobs.

Employers, however, see the lawsuits as reneging on the administration's commitment to an important part of the healthcare reform.

But recent lawsuits filed by the administration's Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), challenging the programs at Honeywell International and two smaller companies, have thrown the future of that part of Obamacare into doubt.

The lawsuits infuriated some large employers so much that they are considering aligning themselves with Obama's opponents, according to people familiar with the executives' thinking.

"The fact that the EEOC sued is shocking to our members," said Maria Ghazal, vice-president and counsel at the Business Roundtable, a group of chief executives of more than 200 large U.S. corporations. "They don't understand why a plan in compliance with the ACA (Affordable Care Act) is the target of a lawsuit," she said. "This is a major issue to our members."

"There have been conversations at the most senior levels of the administration about this," she added.

lulz the meetings were behind closed doors and so no one knows the results. The nail may already be in the coffin and employers may have already decided to use the nuclear option in 2016, for all we know. We'll find out in november 2015 I guess. Sensamp or whatever I'm sure will still be flying the mission accomplished banner B). Obamacare is the 8,000 page gift that just keeps on giving.

Seriously though, if they pissed off the CEOs of large corporations, its more serious of a threat to the law than the GOP's trolling ever would be.

 

[MongGrel]

GOP ahould love it anyway, I hate Skelletor, I mean Rick Scott, *cough*, and that guy dodged scamming Health Care fraud years ago making mega bucks off health care scams.

But the idiots here keep re-electing his ass, instead of being prosecuted for it.

 

[shady28]

This is a great idea. Next up :

Do you ride a motorcycle?
You're a higher risk, your medical insurance should go up so mine stays low.

Do you like to snow ski in the winter?
You're a higher risk, your medical insurance should go up so mine stays low.

Do you drink more than 3 beers a week?
You're a higher risk, your medical insurance should go up so mine stays low.

Have any history of heart disease in your immediate family?
You're a higher risk, your medical insurance should go up so mine stays low.

Slippery slopes are sooo much fun...

 

[shady28]

Ohh here's a good one.

Got bad credit?
You're higher risk, you should pay more for insurance so I can pay less.

"Poor credit rating linked to poor cardiovascular health"

http://dunedinstudy.otago.ac.nz/news-and-events/article/34

 

[shira]

This is a great idea. Next up :

Do you ride a motorcycle?
You're a higher risk, your medical insurance should go up so mine stays low.

Do you like to snow ski in the winter?
You're a higher risk, your medical insurance should go up so mine stays low.

Do you drink more than 3 beers a week?
You're a higher risk, your medical insurance should go up so mine stays low.

Have any history of heart disease in your immediate family?
You're a higher risk, your medical insurance should go up so mine stays low.

Slippery slopes are sooo much fun...

Then you should be overjoyed to know that Obamacare prevents insurance companies from considering anything other than the following five factors in setting their premiums:

Factors in setting premiums:

• Age: Older people can be charged up to 3 times more for premiums than younger people.
• Geographic location: Where you live has a big effect on your premiums. Competition, local regulation, and cost of living in different areas account for this.
• Tobacco Use: Insurers can charge tobacco users up to 50% more than those who don’t use tobacco.
• Individual vs. family enrollment: Insurers can charge more for a plan that covers a spouse and/or dependents.
• Plan category: Plans are available in five categories: Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and catastrophic. The categories reflect how you and the plan share costs. Bronze plans will likely have lower premiums and higher out-of-pocket costs. Platinum plans are likely to have the highest premiums and lowest out-of-pocket costs.

 

[OverVolt]

Then you should be overjoyed to know that Obamacare prevents insurance companies from considering anything other than the following five factors in setting their premiums:

Factors in setting premiums:

• Age: Older people can be charged up to 3 times more for premiums than younger people.
• Geographic location: Where you live has a big effect on your premiums. Competition, local regulation, and cost of living in different areas account for this.
• Tobacco Use: Insurers can charge tobacco users up to 50% more than those who don’t use tobacco.
• Individual vs. family enrollment: Insurers can charge more for a plan that covers a spouse and/or dependents.
• Plan category: Plans are available in five categories: Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and catastrophic. The categories reflect how you and the plan share costs. Bronze plans will likely have lower premiums and higher out-of-pocket costs. Platinum plans are likely to have the highest premiums and lowest out-of-pocket costs.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesl...bamacare-rules-offer-big-gains-for-employers/

This article is by Darrell Moon, the chief executive of Orriant, a wellness program provider.

In order to boost participation rates, employers in recent years have begun to offer incentives such as gift cards or reductions in employee premiums to employees who met accepted standards for blood pressure, body mass index, cholesterol, and other biometric measures. Such incentives do indeed boost participation, but they also have led to charges that employers are discriminating against the unhealthy. As a result, many companies have balked at offering contingent incentives, for fear of antagonizing employees, most of whom, as noted above, are too unhealthy to meet the standards.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the democrats particular flavour of bullshit?

 

[QuantumPion]

Obamacare is only partially and indirectly responsible for this crap. By making health insurance more onerous and expensive, companies are compelled to implement this intrusive measures to reduce costs back to normal levels. However, health insurance and health care costs were increasing on their own well enough before obamacare came around. While government policies may have set the stage, the real problem is more societal in nature. I've said it before and I'll say it again - the problem with the healthcare industry is a) the entitlement mentality of society that believes health care is a right that must be provided by someone else and b) lack of market forces in health care services.

 

[Bitek]

404 - Obamacare not found.

It says in my first quote how Obamacare affected these policies.

These wellness programs existed before the aca. My employer has had one for years. They are in no way as invasive as the story in the op, but there is some form of discount for enrolling, and they will periodically do questionnaires and surveys to find out how you are managing your health issues. Customized to any conditions you may have. In the end programs are way to shift costs on to the employees.

As senseamp said, he who pays the Piper calls the tune.

Be prepared for more of these as health care costs and continue to rise, at whatever rate, affected by the ACA or no.

 

[theeedude]

Republicans suddenly are seeing problems with healthcare that existed prior to Obamacare but which they managed to ignore for decades. That's progress. Thanks, Obama.

 

[Subyman]

Republicans suddenly are seeing problems with healthcare that existed prior to Obamacare but which they managed to ignore for decades. That's progress. Thanks, Obama.

Oh yes, since reuters is completely red. Can you have a discussion without dividing lines? I vote on both sides.

Obamacare is only partially and indirectly responsible for this crap. By making health insurance more onerous and expensive, companies are compelled to implement this intrusive measures to reduce costs back to normal levels. However, health insurance and health care costs were increasing on their own well enough before obamacare came around. While government policies may have set the stage, the real problem is more societal in nature. I've said it before and I'll say it again - the problem with the healthcare industry is a) the entitlement mentality of society that believes health care is a right that must be provided by someone else and b) lack of market forces in health care services.

When there is a treatment that can help someone, it is very unfortunate that it would be withheld because of financial reasons. I think that will always bother people and I can see why. You'd think as technology and society progresses one of the milestones would certainly be ubiquitous healthcare. We aren't there yet, but it is a wonderful ideal and something to strive for.

 

[theeedude]

Oh yes, since reuters is completely red. Can you have a discussion without dividing lines? I vote on both sides.



When there is a treatment that can help someone, it is very unfortunate that it would be withheld because of financial reasons. I think that will always bother people and I can see why. You'd think as technology and society progresses one of the milestones would certainly be ubiquitous healthcare. We aren't there yet, but it is a wonderful ideal and something to strive for.

Media is just throwing red meat to right wing retards to troll them for clicks. It's working so all is good in the hood.

 

[shira]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesl...bamacare-rules-offer-big-gains-for-employers/



Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the democrats particular flavour of bullshit?

There's no bullshit. If you read your own article, it characterizes the new rules as providing ways to help employees SAVE money on their premiums.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Get healthy or else, say employers

Are these the Death Panels we've been warned about? I thought you guys said the government would be leading these death panels??



Also, how is it that insurance companies get a pass for denying coverage, to a paying customer - yet, if something like this is done by "Obamacare", everyone loses their shit?

Look, you either want poor/bad lifestyles to be punished, or not.

If your corporate overlords do it and you kiss their feet over it, but then lose your Goddamned minds over it when Barry does it (because this is totally one of his signature moves,..), then it's called having double standards - idiots.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Torn on this. On one hand I don't want to have to submit a blood sample to check my cholesterol levels to get a job... but on the other diabetes, heart disease and other easily preventable illnesses cost a lot of money to treat.

I try to maintain a healthy lifestyle so sure... throw some financial incentives my way.

Aren't those diseases that you mentioned hereditary? We are dangerously close to the world portrayed by GATTACA.

 

[sunzt]

Get healthy or else, say employers

Are these the Death Panels we've been warned about? I thought you guys said the government would be leading these death panels??



Also, how is it that insurance companies get a pass for denying coverage, to a paying customer - yet, if something like this is done by "Obamacare", everyone loses their shit?

Look, you either want poor/bad lifestyles to be punished, or not.

If your corporate overlords do it and you kiss their feet over it, but then lose your Goddamned minds over it when Barry does it (because this is totally one of his signature moves,..), then it's called having double standards - idiots.

No one should be between you and your doctor on healthcare, unless it's your insurance company then that's ok.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Aren't those diseases that you mentioned hereditary? We are dangerously close to the world portrayed by GATTACA.

No, no, no - that's forward moving thinking,.. we want to go back. WAY back.

Born with a cleft palate? Sucks to be you!
http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/8-reasons-it-wasnt-easy-being-spartan

If a Spartan baby was judged to be unfit for its future duty as a soldier, it was most likely abandoned on a nearby hillside.

 

[zephyrprime]

Americans just have become diseased conditioned by a corrupt health care system and pharmaceutical industry. With new statin guidelines alone, 1 in 3 Americans will be recommended to take these pharmaceutical poisons.

Pfft. Yeah right. Most unhealthy people don't even see the doctor hardly ever until they start developing conditions. Americans are just fat as fuck. The whole reason we need the statins is because everyone is fat as fuck.

This sort of thing was inevitable. One of the ways to reduce insurance costs is to force everyone to be healthier whether they want to or not. And since we have private insurance in the US, there is nothing anyone can do about intrusive measures like this. You can leave your job but soon that won't be an option because every company will have programs like this.