General VR discussion thread

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CP5670

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I think I saw the ISS one, it's an exhibit in the Museum of Alternate Realities (available on Steam).

These demos remind me of the early 1990s when CDs were first coming out. There were a lot of these "interactive experiences" around that time. Some were full fledged games but others did not really involve any user interaction.
 

Kaido

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Feb 14, 2004
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That was like the most pointless video i have ever seen with no game photo, no sample of anything.
Also attack on titan is very dynamic, well the non VR version is at least.
Its bound to give the average person motion sickness.
Think of Spiderman but in VR with swinging swords.

Its not that great of a game to be showing off IMO.

I played an early version of a VR game that was like Spiderman, swinging through the streets, which was pretty fun & non-sickening-inducing. Later I got really into Jet Island, where the developer really perfected the mechanics of flying around on a hoverboard & using grappling ropes to move using large-scale landscapes:


So I think they could create a good AOT game using the giant Titans & similar mechanics to Jet Island without creating any kind of motion sickness!

 

aigomorla

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Saw that... they say it mostly due to the old hardware not playing nice with the recient, which makes double the work trying to keep it alive.

But Q1 did launch 2017, and id say it had a good 5 yrs.
Not even cellphones have a service life that long now.

I think VR headsets will probably be a fad like how the Nintendo powerglove was.
They are moving over to glasses, which is a more practical design i feel, as technology is getting more advance and allows us to to do so.
 

Kaido

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Saw that... they say it mostly due to the old hardware not playing nice with the recient, which makes double the work trying to keep it alive.

But Q1 did launch 2017, and id say it had a good 5 yrs.
Not even cellphones have a service life that long now.

I think VR headsets will probably be a fad like how the Nintendo powerglove was.
They are moving over to glasses, which is a more practical design i feel, as technology is getting more advance and allows us to to do so.

I have a Q1 & my wife has a Q2, so I'm bummed lol. Although I'm still rocking my OG HTC Vive from like a million years ago haha.

Yeah, once they crack the AR code (thin glasses + good quality), that's going to make a HUGE impact. Price-wise, you really can't beat a $299 (well, $399 now, I guess) standalone VR headset, so pretty much everyone who really wanted to get into VR has gotten into it at this point (7 years into this thread, lol). I think there have been 2 major failures with VR:

1. Lack of advertising. Most gamers know about stuff like PSVR. The majority of the population doesn't understand VR tho. People are always BLOWN AWAY when I bring my Quest places, they can't believe how good it is & how much fun it is or that it has a built-in gaming system or that you can connect it to Steam for games.

2. Lack of killer apps, mainly a consistent flow of AAA games. Stuff like Lone Echo & Alyx is great, but major new releases are few & far between. It's your typical chicken & egg problem: need money to make projects, not enough people using it to make enough money to do really big games consistently. There's not really a must-have game like Mario Odyssey or Zelda for the Switch had.

If Facebook was smart, they would have put the $20 billion they lost in VR into funding new Triple A games to be released on a monthly basis for years on end, thus making the Quest a "must-have" gaming platform. We should really be on 11K Retina VR by now. John Carmack left & complained about his frustration with how the company was handling VR technology growth. There's so much potential, but yeah, I think you're right...the future is really in AR & Mixed Reality headsets, and if they can figure out the technology to get it down to like, sunglasses size, it's gonna be a huge hit! What Google Glasses should have been!
 
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I have a Q1 & my wife has a Q2, so I'm bummed lol. Although I'm still rocking my OG HTC Vive from like a million years ago haha.

Yeah, once they crack the AR code (thin glasses + good quality), that's going to make a HUGE impact. Price-wise, you really can't beat a $299 (well, $399 now, I guess) standalone VR headset, so pretty much everyone who really wanted to get into VR has gotten into it at this point (7 years into this thread, lol). I think there have been 2 major failures with VR:

1. Lack of advertising. Most gamers know about stuff like PSVR. The majority of the population doesn't understand VR tho. People are always BLOWN AWAY when I bring my Quest places, they can't believe how good it is & how much fun it is or that it has a built-in gaming system or that you can connect it to Steam for games.

2. Lack of killer apps, mainly a consistent flow of AAA games. Stuff like Lone Echo & Alyx is great, but major new releases are few & far between. It's your typical chicken & egg problem: need money to make projects, not enough people using it to make enough money to do really big games consistently. There's not really a must-have game like Mario Odyssey or Zelda for the Switch had.

If Facebook was smart, they would have put the $20 billion they lost in VR into funding new Triple A games to be released on a monthly basis for years on end, thus making the Quest a "must-have" gaming platform. We should really be on 11K Retina VR by now. John Carmack left & complained about his frustration with how the company was handling VR technology growth. There's so much potential, but yeah, I think you're right...the future is really in AR & Mixed Reality headsets, and if they can figure out the technology to get it down to like, sunglasses size, it's gonna be a huge hit! What Google Glasses should have been!
Gotta agree here and as I’ve said for me VR in its current form is far too isolating, inconvenient and honestly dorky looking. Looks tiring to put on all that gear then enjoy game time. The majority of VR games appear very gimmicky to me, I’m sure they’re fun for some amount of limited time but they all seem to do the same thing. I simply don’t want to invest in something that I know I’ll end up putting on a shelf and not using because it has all the indications I’ll get bored and tired of all that crap.
Make the gear smaller and less isolating plus add new features or improve upon existing games I’ll consider buying one.

Above is just my opinion if you all love your VR setups that’s great.
 

Kaido

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Gotta agree here and as I’ve said for me VR in its current form is far too isolating, inconvenient and honestly dorky looking. Looks tiring to put on all that gear then enjoy game time. The majority of VR games appear very gimmicky to me, I’m sure they’re fun for some amount of limited time but they all seem to do the same thing. I simply don’t want to invest in something that I know I’ll end up putting on a shelf and not using because it has all the indications I’ll get bored and tired of all that crap.
Make the gear smaller and less isolating plus add new features or improve upon existing games I’ll consider buying one.

Above is just my opinion if you all love your VR setups that’s great.

No, you're not wrong...you can't just flunk on your couch to play a console or into your gaming chair to do PC gaming, you have to put it it on & move around, which is sort of the opposite of what most of us want to do when we want to relax & unwind in our free time, haha! So VR does have a few usability issues:

1. It's not just as simple as instant use. You have to put the headset on, and many games are standing & are physical, so instantly, there's a mental energy barrier when your energy is low.

2. There's really only so many categories or styles of games available in VR, unlike 2D gaming, which has a TON more styles. Games absolutely DO start to feel repetitive after awhile...shooting games, bow & arrow games, etc.

3. VR has the odd experience of feeling like a re-run, because you're immersed in it, so whereas with games on a 2D flat screen, I can play them over & over, I get kind of tired of them in VR, which also ties into the underlying limited number of options for "types" of games. Like the Lab bow & arrow game is fun, and QuiVR is pretty fun, but eventually your brain kind of sees through the dressing of the game to the underlying gaming mechanics & you're like...meh.

I have a Subpac subwoofer vest, which is BEYOND awesome, but I hardly ever use it anymore because it's just...work. lol! So there's definitely like a mental fatigue aspect to both having to put on the gear & move around physically & feel sort of that deja-vu when you both play through a game again & play similar types of games with overlapping mechanics. I mean, I love VR & I think it's really great, but we really just need a steady stream of top-tier games to make it really worthwhile outside of enthusiasts like me.

Like, even my nephews are pretty much just hooked on playing Gorilla Tag all the time, which has graphics even more garbage than Minecraft (don't get me wrong, I love me some Minecraft lol). But it's the same reason why the Switch works...it's just FUN! So having more fun games to look forward to would really help. I'm hoping they can crack the code for thin, light, quality AR/Mixed glasses or something within the next few years!
 
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CP5670

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I think VR is best for "experiences" more than traditional games. Even among games, I find myself just doing laps serenely in Project Cars 2 or just randomly exploring custom Alyx maps without really playing the game as intended. There are hardly any new AAA releases anymore, but even among the ones I have I don't play much after completing them once, compared to things like Space Engine or Google Earth. Even Alyx stays fresh to me only because of all the custom maps people have made.

I agree that putting on the headset is a turn-off and I avoid standing VR games except in short bursts. They are very impressive but after the initial wow factor, become exhausting to play and are not what I'm looking for after a long work day. I find putting on the headset by itself in a seated configuration is not too much effort, and I have it plugged in at all time anyway. I avoid racing wheels or HOTAS for the same reason, they are immersive but too much work to set up and take down unless you play those types of games exclusively.
 
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I avoid racing wheels or HOTAS for the same reason, they are immersive but too much work to set up and take down unless you play those types of games exclusively.
We need VR gloves with tactile feedback. No need for controllers after that. Look down, you have a Xbox/PS5/Flightstick/Wheel in your hands. Controller industry dead overnight!
 
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CP5670

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I finished the Levitation mod for Alyx. Amazing piece of work that could easily be an official DLC for the game. I especially liked one level where you have to keep out of sight of a strider. They say 3-4 hours but I spent more like 8 hours with it. It's harder than the base game but ammo is common and the difficulty is reasonable, unlike some of the other mods.
 
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Kaido

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Meta Quest Pro price cut from $1,500 to $999. Also, the 256GB Quest 2 will now sell for $429, or just $30 above the usual price of the 128GB version:

The reduced prices are meant to help "more people get into VR," Zuckerberg says.

...

Both reductions also reflect Meta's struggles to pivot to the metaverse. While it remains committed to the concept and is pouring 20 percent of its 2023 spending into its Reality Labs division, that unit continues to lose billions of dollars per quarter. The better prices could get headsets into the hands of more customers and, by extension, help with the adoption of Horizon Worlds and Meta's other projects.

Here's an unpopular idea from the trenches: sink those BILLIONS of dollars into AAA games. "The average AAA game takes about four years to develop, with an average cost of about $80 million". One billion dollars = 12 AAA games = release one new AAA game EVERY MONTH for the WHOLE YEAR to get people HOOKED! This thread dates back to 2016...I still have & use my Vive, plus a pair of Oculus Quest 2's. Literally my only real complaint is that I want new amazing content all the time! Content is king!
 

gorobei

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the ps VR2 takes the lead in the headset race?

oled, 2k per eye, foveated rendering, mechanical ipd adjust, single (displayport?) tether, but meh controller tracking and still using fresnel lenses.

potentially problematic for larger head/nose individuals with large hands.

the big thing seems to be they have foveated rendering working well enough to not be noticeable, if they can pull that off on the ps5 amd soc then it bodes well for future pc vr assuming someone(not metoculus) actually builds a comparable oled headset. i wonder if people will try to mod it to work on pc.
 
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sze5003

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the ps VR2 takes the lead in the headset race?

oled, 2k per eye, foveated rendering, mechanical ipd adjust, single (displayport?) tether, but meh controller tracking and still using fresnel lenses.

potentially problematic for larger head/nose individuals with large hands.

the big thing seems to be they have foveated rendering working well enough to not be noticeable, if they can pull that off on the ps5 amd soc then it bodes well for future pc vr assuming someone(not metoculus) actually builds a comparable oled headset. i wonder if people will try to mod it to work on pc.
I'm thinking hp is already working on something similar for the pc. The reverb G2 is really good visual wise for resolution but it could definitely use some updates with the rendering, fit, and adjustments of the lenses.
 

CP5670

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The rumor is HP may be leaving the VR space altogether. The G2 is still an excellent headset especially for seated VR. To me the biggest downside with it is LCD as opposed to OLED, so if the PSVR has that but is otherwise similar, I would get one. I'm guessing it won't be PC compatible though, knowing Sony.
 

sze5003

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That's unfortunate that HP would be out. I use it for seated VR flight which I think would definitely benefit from oled screen/lenses. Foveated rendering too would be helpful as well. I'm not a fan of having base stations around either which is why I got the G2. I don't use it too often so being bothered to set those stations up would be annoying.
 

gorobei

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ifixit teardown of vr2. probably 100 times more friendly to user repair than the other big names.

no glue, all screws or removable replacable rubber bushings. headset can be torn down without damage, not so much for the controllers. tether keeps the internals simpler. the haptic in the headset was news to me.

he goes over the lens and displays vs the competition. pancake lenses + oled ~$3000. so the fresnel + oled is to keep price in reason.
 

ericlp

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So, apple is releasing it's new VR headset, Rumor is it's gonna cost 3K...Good luck!

Not to be undone, quest is finally releasing the Quest 3. Not much of an upgrade, however it will cost 600 bucks, and the quest 2 will return to it's normal price of 300 bucks.

Will be interesting to see all the reviews on these products. Since I have a quest 2 and still enjoy but the my controllers are drifting issues and would be nice to get a new set of controllers. I might just spring for a new quest 2, as usual, I'll wait for the newer tech to get cheaper before I buy. Personally, I don't think there will be that much difference between the 2 and 3 to make an upgrade, until it gets eye tracking then maybe I'll buy one. From what I hear the 3 will not have that.
 

Kaido

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So, apple is releasing it's new VR headset, Rumor is it's gonna cost 3K...Good luck!

Not to be undone, quest is finally releasing the Quest 3. Not much of an upgrade, however it will cost 600 bucks, and the quest 2 will return to it's normal price of 300 bucks.

Will be interesting to see all the reviews on these products. Since I have a quest 2 and still enjoy but the my controllers are drifting issues and would be nice to get a new set of controllers. I might just spring for a new quest 2, as usual, I'll wait for the newer tech to get cheaper before I buy. Personally, I don't think there will be that much difference between the 2 and 3 to make an upgrade, until it gets eye tracking then maybe I'll buy one. From what I hear the 3 will not have that.

I'm curious if AR will be any good without 11K Retina-quality screens. My wife & I primarily use our Quests. I stream my gaming PC to my Quest 2 wirelessly. I still have my original Vive from 2016 (way back at the beginning of this thread, 7 years ago!).

My biggest complaint isn't the hardware, it's the availability of more fun games. What's crazy is that Meta spent $36 billion on the Metaverse from 2019 to 2022...imagine if that had dropped a new $1 billion dollar AAA virtual reality game every month for the last 36 months instead!
 

OlyAR15

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So, apple is releasing it's new VR headset, Rumor is it's gonna cost 3K...Good luck!

Not to be undone, quest is finally releasing the Quest 3. Not much of an upgrade, however it will cost 600 bucks, and the quest 2 will return to it's normal price of 300 bucks.

Will be interesting to see all the reviews on these products. Since I have a quest 2 and still enjoy but the my controllers are drifting issues and would be nice to get a new set of controllers. I might just spring for a new quest 2, as usual, I'll wait for the newer tech to get cheaper before I buy. Personally, I don't think there will be that much difference between the 2 and 3 to make an upgrade, until it gets eye tracking then maybe I'll buy one. From what I hear the 3 will not have that.
Varjo aero is $2k and you have to purchase Index lighthouses and controllers on top if you don’t already own them. Total cost comes pretty close to $3k, yet a number of flight simmers have bought them. There is a market for high-end gear if it’s good.

I’m looking at the new Pimax Crystal. It’s about $1600 but at least it comes with controllers and doesn’t need lighthouses.
 

Kaido

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Apple Vision Pro: ($3.5k base price, launching in early 2024)


vision-pro-headset.jpg


Notes:
  • Augmented reality
  • Hand, eye, and voice interface (no physical controller for the headset itself, although Apple's gamepad works)
  • Can pull up your Macbook screen virtually in 4K to be as big as you want
  • 3D camera
  • Over 100 arcade titles with wireless controller support
  • Disney+ integration
  • Custom magnetic optical inserts by Zeiss for people who wear glasses (works with eye tracking)
  • External battery pack on a cable (swappable) that runs for a couple hours, plus can be plugged into the wall
  • OLED screens with support for fine text reading
  • M2 chip + Custom R1 chip
  • Face enrollment to let you join meetings with a scanned avatar
  • Runs VisionOS
  • Reality Composer Pro
  • Native Unity
  • OpticID for authentication
  • "The most advanced personal electronics device"...they filed over 5,000 patents
  • Starting at $3,500 coming in 2024
Great thread by a developer:


1685991167360.png
 
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CP5670

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The Vision Pro looks quite impressive. However, I wonder if it will work at all with the SteamVR and Windows ecosystem. Probably not since it's Apple.
 

Kaido

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The Vision Pro looks quite impressive. However, I wonder if it will work at all with the SteamVR and Windows ecosystem. Probably not since it's Apple.

Unity is supported natively:

"We know there is a community of developers who have been building incredible 3D apps for years," Apple's vice president of worldwide developer relations said during the WWDC presentation. And today we are excited to share that we've been working with Unity to bring those apps to Vision Pro. So popular Unity-based games and apps can gain full access to vision OS features such as pass-through, high-resolution renderings, and native gestures."