GeForce Titan coming end of February

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boxleitnerb

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Nov 1, 2011
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It's pretty obvious that the 6970 was not the card that set the price of the 7970. It was the 580 3gig.

I'm comparing a card with its successor. 6970 and 7970, 680 and Titan. You probably missed that ;)

7970 was 45% faster than 6970 at launch, it was the 680 that was 30% faster than the 580 at launch. The 6970 was also $400 at the time and the 7970 went for $550, that is about 35% more in price. Let's not get too revisionist here, the ratio is nowhere near the same.

http://ht4u.net/reviews/2011/amd_radeon_hd_7900_southern_island_test/index50.php up to 33%
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7970/28.html up to 38%
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2011/test-amd-radeon-hd-7970/10/ up to 42%

Anyway, you misunderstood my post. I didn't compare the 7970 with the 680. I compared the ratio of 7970/6970 with the ratio of Titan/680.
You also can't compare launch prices with prices of older cards at that time. You need to compare launch vs. launch.

6970: $369
7970: $549
-> nearly 50% more for 40% higher performance
-> 150%/140%=1.07

680: $499
Titan: $899
-> 80% more for 50% higher performance
-> 180%/150%=1.20

Yeah it's different, but not by much.
 
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MrK6

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Aug 9, 2004
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I'm not sure where these performance figures are coming from - ~35% more shader power and ~35% more memory bandwidth is some how going to equal a 85% of a GTX 690? Either they're overhyping this card or underestimating the GTX 690. A better comparison sounds like a GTX 680 @ 1.3GHz and 7GHz+ vRAM; it is a fast card no doubt, and hopefully the chip will still have overclocking headroom. February is pretty close, they did a great job keeping it under wraps if this is the first we're hearing about it. :thumbsup:

However the price is pretty laughable. I think a premium for high end hardware is expected, but $900 is extreme, even worse than some of the best gouges in history like the GTX 8800 Ultra. I'm sure enthusiasts will still buy them, but for $900 you can get something like GTX 670 Tri-SLI and blow it out of the water.

I'm not even sure if this card will beat my 7970 @ 1.3GHz+, which is kind of amazing considering it's over a year old now. Progress has really stagnated.
 
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Cookie Monster

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May 7, 2005
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I'm not sure where these performance figures are coming from - ~35% more shader power and ~35% more memory bandwidth is some how going to equal a 85% of a GTX 690? Either they're overhyping this card or underestimating the GTX 690. A better comparison sounds like a GTX 680 @ 1.3GHz and 7GHz+ vRAM; it is a fast card no doubt, and hopefully the chip will still have overclocking headroom. February is pretty close, they did a great job keeping it under wraps if this is the first we're hearing about it. :thumbsup:

We dont know what the clocks are but shader power alone would be ~75% greater than the GTX680 (assuming same clocks/efficiency - 2688SPs - 14SMX vs 1536SPs - 8SM).
 
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psolord

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Sep 16, 2009
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So if this supposed 6GB, 384bit GTX 780, gets priced at 900$, how low could a 320bit, 2.56GB GTX mini titan be priced?
 

HurleyBird

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Apr 22, 2003
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We dont know what the clocks are but shader power alone would be ~75% greater than the GTX680 (assuming same clocks/efficiency - 2688SPs - 14SMX vs 1536SPs - 8SM).

He's assuming clocks of 732MHz as per the latest rumor.

What nobody seems to be grasping though is that a big kepler's architecture is more complex and powerful than little kepler. There's going to be a measure of performance uplift clock for clock and shader for shader.
 

tviceman

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Mar 25, 2008
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Show me where a 25% oc'ed 7970 uses as much power as Titan most likely will with it's 275W TDP. I'm just curious to know honestly. I can't be bothered to actually look into this. As for clock scaling on Kepler, so even if they do scale just as well they also increase power just as much as Tahiti. Why all the sudden does Titan not have to deal with increased power while gaining 50% performance.

This whole time I've just been theorizing based on a very general and not entirely accurate grasp of the current performance landscape which I clearly stated early on. If you feel the need to try cram your opinion down my throat that's fine.

It's my opinion that AMD will be on par with Titan or within 15% of it for hundreds of dollars less. That's my opinion, take it or leave it.

Nobody is "cramming" anything down your throat, buddy. It's called an opinion, you have one, I have one. I feel like I backed mine up with better reasoning, not changing the parameters and comparing unbalanced / extreme situations (water cooling + big overclock vs. stock reference design), or changing my mind with links I originally referenced (like you did with quoting anandtech's power usage).

If you post an opinion, and someone disagrees with you, it's the internet, it's going to happen. Thicken your skin, get more convincing, and learn to accept the fact that if you're putting your opinion out there for everyone to read, people are going to disagree with it.
 

tviceman

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Mar 25, 2008
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I'm comparing a card with its successor. 6970 and 7970, 680 and Titan. You probably missed that ;)



http://ht4u.net/reviews/2011/amd_radeon_hd_7900_southern_island_test/index50.php up to 33%
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7970/28.html up to 38%
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2011/test-amd-radeon-hd-7970/10/ up to 42%

Anyway, you misunderstood my post. I didn't compare the 7970 with the 680. I compared the ratio of 7970/6970 with the ratio of Titan/680.
You also can't compare launch prices with prices of older cards at that time. You need to compare launch vs. launch.

6970: $369
7970: $549
-> nearly 50% more for 40% higher performance
-> 150%/140%=1.07

680: $499
Titan: $899
-> 80% more for 50% higher performance
-> 180%/150%=1.20

Yeah it's different, but not by much.

Some people like to quote best-case scenarios for one vendor and worst case scenarios for another vendor to pad their arguments.

But still, I agree with the general sentiment that if it does end up at $899, it's overpriced. Hell even at this point, if it comes in at $799 for a 6 gb model, and $699 for a 3gb model I'd be "elated."
 

Jaydip

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Mar 29, 2010
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If this rumor is indeed true, honestly I would be pretty much interested in it.Just looking at the specification won't do it justice we have to look at the GK110 whitepaper as well.There are some pretty cool features like hyper-q which can make a lot of difference if paired with a very fast processor.
 

MrK6

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Aug 9, 2004
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We dont know what the clocks are but shader power alone would be ~75% greater than the GTX680 (assuming same clocks/efficiency - 2688SPs - 14SMX vs 1536SPs - 8SM).
As HurleyBird mentioned, there's a clock speed difference. I"m not sure what SMX brings to the table over SM; it seems like it has a similar distribution (192 shaders a block), but who maybe there are some extra tweaks.

In either case, for $900 it's not really doing anything new to the market.
 

Will Robinson

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Dec 19, 2009
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Maybe they're doing a bit of price conditioning with this $900 rumor.
Launch day it comes in at $599-$699 and everyone will be thinking its a bargain.o_O
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
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I'm comparing a card with its successor. 6970 and 7970, 680 and Titan. You probably missed that ;)



http://ht4u.net/reviews/2011/amd_radeon_hd_7900_southern_island_test/index50.php up to 33%
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7970/28.html up to 38%
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2011/test-amd-radeon-hd-7970/10/ up to 42%

Anyway, you misunderstood my post. I didn't compare the 7970 with the 680. I compared the ratio of 7970/6970 with the ratio of Titan/680.
You also can't compare launch prices with prices of older cards at that time. You need to compare launch vs. launch.

6970: $369
7970: $549
-> nearly 50% more for 40% higher performance
-> 150%/140%=1.07

680: $499
Titan: $899
-> 80% more for 50% higher performance
-> 180%/150%=1.20

Yeah it's different, but not by much.

I'm comparing last node's flagship to the next node's, not a refresh/new part on the same node. This card is the real flagship and is why I was making the comparison, the 680 certainly didn't bring the expected flagship performance improvement or characteristics you'd expect of a flaghship. This is the GTX 680 being called Titan.

But, I wasn't looking to break down the fine points of it. It will be an 80% markup over the past flagships if it plays out as the rumour said. I like new hardware and will enjoy seeing the benchmarks for this card and hope it will not be locked down like the other Kepler cards and we'll get to some some good overclocks as well.

It's more entertaining for me seeing the flip-flopping on what the forumites are incensed by depending on vendor though, which was what I was playing at. Not sure what will be more entertaining about this launch, the beastly benchmarks, or the justifying/dismissals of the massive price hikes compared to months of whining at the 7970 launch over price hikes and price/performance on a best in class card.
 

Whitestar127

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Dec 2, 2011
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I'm sure enthusiasts will still buy them, but for $900 you can get something like GTX 670 Tri-SLI and blow it out of the water.

Hmmm, here in Norway I can get 670 SLI for no less than 930 dollars, that's the cheapest I found. But I suppose you were exaggerating a bit. :)
 
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tviceman

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Mar 25, 2008
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Maybe they're doing a bit of price conditioning with this $900 rumor.
Launch day it comes in at $599-$699 and everyone will be thinking its a bargain.o_O

It almost pains me to say this, but I both hope and think you are right. I wouldn't be among those who thinks it would be a bargain, but at least it wouldn't be the price of an entire very capable gaming PC all by itself.
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
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Hmmm, here in Norway I can get 670 SLI for no less than 930 dollars, that's the cheapest I found. But I suppose you were exaggerating a bit. :)

Not to mention that multi-GPU still sucks in terms of heat, power, stability, compatibility, and stutter as well as adding some input lag. I'd take a single fast GPU over multiple slower ones any day of the week.
 

Homeles

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Dec 9, 2011
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If you could just state your position without throwing in stuff like pathetic, and childishness, you'd be on the right path.
You seem to have a terrible memory. My position was stated without those additives. Had I not been met with disrespect in the first place, I wouldn't have included them. Go bark up the correct tree.
So, you are saying that AMD releasing the 7970 at the same current price at the time as nVidia's previous generation 3gig flagship card is what's making nVidia almost double the price of the next generations flagship? Remember the 580 3gig was on the market at $550 when the 7970 was released. That was OK with people because that was the price of admission for the fastest GPU. While people admitted it was poor value, they accepted that is what it cost and that price and performance don't scale linearly.
It was okay with people because they were paying for a Nvidia card. AMD believing they could do the same, without Nvidia's fan club and brand reputation, was an error. AMD seemed to have forgotten that their reputation stemmed from providing affordable performance.
Then AMD did the unexpected and didn't try and be the price/perf champion. They went with the current market instead of blowing it out of the water. GK110 at $900 is not at all related. nVidia saw that they can sell a small die for $500 and are going to try and make the same margins on GK110. I wouldn't be surprised if this current leak is just to see peoples reaction. There appears to be plenty of people willing to pay it. Don't worry though, they'll release it at something less than that (at least in North America to capture all of the US headlines) and look like heroes. Just like they did with GK104.
And had the 7970 had not been sold with the same reasoning as the 680 (being able to sell a small die with huge margins), you wouldn't be seeing the 780 coming in as high.

The other, larger reason for the 780's price is going to be a lack of competition. Once again, this is the fault of AMD.
childishness? All I did was laugh at your statement and you called me pathetic. Teapot, meet Kettle
You clearly don't understand the meaning of that idiom.

"All I did was laugh at your statement." Yes, and the fact that you couldn't provide an intelligent response is, in fact, pathetic and childlike. Pointing that out does not make me one and the same.
He's assuming clocks of 732MHz as per the latest rumor.

What nobody seems to be grasping though is that a big kepler's architecture is more complex and powerful than little kepler. There's going to be a measure of performance uplift clock for clock and shader for shader.
What people are also failing to grasp is the fact that professional cards are clocked lower. 732MHz is the clock speed of the K20X, which is a professional card. It is with almost 100% certainty that the Titan will come in with higher clocks.
 
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Eureka

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Sep 6, 2005
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Hmmm, here in Norway I can get 670 SLI for no less than 930 dollars, that's the cheapest I found. But I suppose you were exaggerating a bit. :)

Except we're not in Norway, and no VAT here. You can definitely do a 670 tri for $900 USD with a bit of scrounging and patience.
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
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Except we're not in Norway, and no VAT here. You can definitely do a 670 tri for $900 USD with a bit of scrounging and patience.

Even if you can put up with a multi-GPU rig, you'd have to be mad to buy the cheapest 670's you can find for a tri-SLI rig given the build quality of the stock solution.

What people are also failing to grasp is the fact that professional cards are clocked lower. 732MHz is the clock speed of the K20X, which is a professional card. It is with almost 100% certainty that the Titan will come in with higher clocks.

I agree. The only way 732MHz might make sense is if it's a 15 SMX part. I was just explaining how he derived his number.
 
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MrK6

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Aug 9, 2004
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Maybe they're doing a bit of price conditioning with this $900 rumor.
Launch day it comes in at $599-$699 and everyone will be thinking its a bargain.o_O
For $600 it won't be terrible. Granted it wouldn't be a good deal, but you're getting, what sounds like, GTX 670 SLI performance in a single card for a similar price.
Hmmm, here in Norway I can get 670 SLI for no less than 930 dollars, that's the cheapest I found. But I suppose you were exaggerating a bit. :)
No, I was quoting US prices. GTX 670's go on sale for $300 here.
 

lavaheadache

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Jan 28, 2005
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Homeles, I was stating that by calling me pathetic was childish of you, which is what you accused me of being.

You point is taken but observed as wrong. Sorry the release price of Tahiti bothered you but since nVidia still had the 3gb 580 priced where it was it only makes good sense to price the 7970 higher.
 

tviceman

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Mar 25, 2008
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For $600 it won't be terrible. Granted it wouldn't be a good deal, but you're getting, what sounds like, GTX 670 SLI performance in a single card for a similar price.

High end cards are never "good deals" compared to SLI'ing or CFX'ing lesser cards within the same generation. CFX hd7850's will outperform an hd7970GE and cost noticeably less ($370 before $20 MIR vs. $440 before $20 MIR). If the GK110 doesn't offer the same bang for buck as SLI'd cards within the same family, it's par for the course in that regards. If it's $900 though, then that is an entirely different matter.
 

Homeles

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Dec 9, 2011
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You point is taken but observed as wrong. Sorry the release price of Tahiti bothered you but since nVidia still had the 3gb 580 priced where it was it only makes good sense to price the 7970 higher.
The 7970 launch price "made sense," but was disappointing. The launch price of this makes sense, but is disappointing. It's a continued string of disappointments that began with the launch of the 7970.
 

Whitestar127

Senior member
Dec 2, 2011
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For $600 it won't be terrible. Granted it wouldn't be a good deal, but you're getting, what sounds like, GTX 670 SLI performance in a single card for a similar price.

No, I was quoting US prices. GTX 670's go on sale for $300 here.

For me (again, in Norway :)) this wouldn't be too bad actually. It would cost about the same as two 670s, it would be a single card, and the bigger bus would probably make it perform better in some games, like Crysis.

Also, I wouldn't have to worry about running out of vram anytime soon when modding the hell out of Skyrim or GTA4. :)

I was considering two 670s, but now I'm thinking this will be better. Although I should probably await the benchmarks.
 
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amenx

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Dec 17, 2004
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I think Nvidia is timing the release to just a few days after Crysis 3 is out. So C3 will serve as the main benchmark in all the reviews.
 
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