GAZA (before & after pictures)

[zanejohnson]

any group running a de-facto freaking equilvelent of the warsaw ghetto is completely evil. no racism involved.

 

[QuantumPion]

Jews did in fact migrate to palestine, which was the land where the PALESTINIANS lived.

No. Jews migrated to what was then Trans-Jordan. The word Palestinian originally referred to these Jewish immigrants. Palestinian did not change in meaning to refer to the arabs until after the creation of Israel.

You decide to cut out 2.000 years of history. Jews had already been expelled long since.

There were some Jews living in the area continuously, but significant immigration did not occur until the 20th century. Note that the entire area was very sparsely populated as it was worthless desert - until the Jewish immigrants started buying the land and making it productive. It was the success of Jewish agriculture which attracted more arabs to live in the region due to the increased economic activity.

While your whole post was pretty much baloney, I just had to comment on these points in particular.

 

[trenchfoot]

I find it incredibly hard to believe most of the Palestinian people are ignorant about what is actually going on. If there is a tunnel in the basement of your building, chances are you know about it. Or, know at least enough that those guys constantly guarding the stairs aren't up to anything good. If you can't put together that living in a building storing weapons, or worse, is going to make that a potential target for Israel (even if you are ignorant on it being a legal military target), there isn't much hope for you.

Not to mention all of the tons of excavated dirt that's coming out of them. A tunnel two miles long has got to have a shit load of tailings to be gotten rid of.

I can't imagine sneaking all of that soil/sand past the residents of said buildings without them getting even mildly curious about it.

 

[Whiskey16]

The rest of us are merely saying that the Jews have the right to self-defense.

No you are not. Aggression and genocide is not 'defence.'

The following are validated and illegal current examples of Israeli aggression, and thereby just antagonism for expected responses. Some of those responses remain to be extreme and even criminal, but that's the reality of civilisation when populations are force to endure what becomes the endurable:

Foreign Affairs

Palestinian Refugees

Canada believes that a just solution to the Palestinian refugee issue is central to a settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as called for in United Nations General Assembly resolution 194 (1948) and United Nations Security Council resolution 242. A solution to the Palestinian refugee issue must be negotiated among the parties concerned in the context of a final status peace agreement. This solution should respect the rights of the refugees, in accordance with international law.
Canada has played a prominent role in the search for a viable and comprehensive solution to the Palestinian refugee issue, including through continuing to focus international attention on improving the situation of the more than four million Palestinian refugees.

Status of Jerusalem

Canada considers the status of Jerusalem can be resolved only as part of a general settlement of the Palestinian-Israeli dispute. Canada does not recognize Israel's unilateral annexation of East Jerusalem.

Occupied Territories and Settlements
Canada does not recognize permanent Israeli control over territories occupied in 1967 (the Golan Heights, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip). The Fourth Geneva Convention applies in the occupied territories and establishes Israel's obligations as an occupying power, in particular with respect to the humane treatment of the inhabitants of the occupied territories. As referred to in UN Security Council Resolutions 446 and 465, Israeli settlements in the occupied territories are a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The settlements also constitute a serious obstacle to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace.

Canada believes that both Israel and the Palestinian Authority must fully respect international human rights and humanitarian law which is key to ensuring the protection of civilians, and can contribute to the creation of a climate conducive to achieving a just, lasting and comprehensive peace settlement.

The Barrier
Canada recognizes Israel's right to protect its citizens from terrorist attacks, including through the restriction of access to its territory, and by building a barrier on its own territory for security purposes. However, Canada opposes Israel's construction of the barrier inside the West Bank and East Jerusalem which are occupied territories. This construction is contrary to international law under the Fourth Geneva Convention. Canada not only opposes Israel's construction of a barrier extending into the occupied territories, but also expropriations and the demolition of houses and economic infrastructure carried out for this purpose.

Israel holds the power and the cards. Only Israel, as the occupying aggressor, can de-escalate the tensions.

 

[Whiskey16]

You're the one holding the Palestinian supremacist position, and are throwing a fit that not everyone else agrees with the extermination of the Jews.

You are lying and intentionally misrepresenting. I oppose calls to exterminate and genocide -- wholeheartedly. Only one group is present calling for such high crimes -- you and your pals here. You are justly getting condemned for that yet you have the defiance to not renounce such terror and ultimate violence.

The rest of us are merely saying that the Jews have the right to self-defense.

No, you are not. You are advocating the most grievous of crimes of exterminating a whole people. Doing such to enable the supremacism and purity of a Greater Jewish state. You advocate genocide. No crimes are greater.

These charges are not hyperbole, on mine or the parts of others. Get your criminal and immoral intents through your head. You and others continue to defend all of this:

If peace and security eventually require killing them all [Palestinians], they brought it on themselves. That's the beauty of democracy.

I won't apologize that you find this view disturbing, for it's a disturbing view. But at some point even Old Yeller had to be put down.

Keep any "disturbing views" that advocate the deaths of an entire population to yourself. They are not welcome here.
admin allisolm

Were it me, I'd have fled or killed enough Palestinians to make them flee.

Hamas is getting Exactly what they have been asking for. I say good, run the whole population of the Gaza into the ocean and they will all be better off for it.

Everyone, please take notice. Passions are running high over this, and I don't wish to be heavy-handed, so I am presently just ASKING everyone not to indulge in such blood-thirsty rhetoric.

Perknose
Forum Director

Good, they need to exterminate every person in gaza.

Advocating the wholesale extermination, the genocide, of an entire population -- women, children, otherwise innocent civilians and all -- will NOT be further tolerated on these forums.

Perknose
Forum Director

See, the only way that this problem is solved is if one group of people disappear. I'll probably get banned for voicing that opinion as I have been warned prior, but I guess the truth hurts. Nobody likes to say it but it is what it is. These people have nothing to live for so of course they get brain washed into thinking that its their destiny to kill jews. Alittle carpet bombing like what went on in dresden and other german towns would probably do some good over there. I'm sure in this day and age it's not PC to mention but war is hell and you can't get PC in war. Just look at every war after WW2 and the disasters they've been.

You only got a warning for advocating extermination just before, as a courtesy, even though you well deserved an infraction. It seems to have sent you the wrong message. Perhaps this infraction will.

Perknose
Forum Director

Just sterilize them all. Don't have to kill them. Chop the family jewels off the men and sterilize the women.

Israel tried to make a 2 state solution but they just keep attacking. They are begging to be exterminated. If one side does not want peace, what are you suppose to do? It would be like the Jews making peace with Nazi's as the walk into the showers and the ovens!


This is the just the latest in a series of inflated, highly regrettable hate rhetoric which goes beyond the bounds of acceptability, not only on ATP&N, but amongst sane, adult humans everywhere.

EVERYONE PLEASE TAKE NOTE: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. No more calls for mass extermination, mass exile, or mass sterilization will be allowed to stand here. We understand the high emotions on all sides of this conflict, and have allowed repeated instances of this to stand in the interests of "free speech", but this is our line in the sand. NO MORE. Cross it at your own peril.

Perknose
Forum Director

There will be no peace until Israel takes the gloves off and inflicts enough pain on the Palestinians...

Israel has the right to prosecute that war until surrender. The Israelis can kill every last man, woman, and child in Gaza as far as I'm concerned, if that's what it takes. If the last one alive is laying there slowly dying, the Israelis come up and ask, "Do you surrender," and he or she says, "Death to Israel," the Israelis have the right to shoot them in the head.
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The highlighted in red above is not an acceptable comment here.

Perknose
Forum Director

DominionSeraph, DucattiMonster, etc, you all continue to defend such positions of extreme violence and crime.

 

[dainthomas]

Israel holds the power and the cards. Only Israel, as the occupying aggressor, can de-escalate the tensions.

Israel's mere existence escalates the tensions, and has from day one. Hamas' stated position is the complete destruction of Israel.

 

[fskimospy]

Israel's mere existence escalates the tensions, and has from day one. Hamas' stated position is the complete destruction of Israel.

Oh?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/05/30/uk-palestinians-israel-hamas-idUKTRE64T2AI20100530

 

[fskimospy]

You are lying and intentionally misrepresenting. I oppose calls to exterminate and genocide -- wholeheartedly. Only one group is present calling for such high crimes -- you and your pals here. You are justly getting condemned for that yet you have the defiance to not renounce such terror and ultimate violence.

No, you are not. You are advocating the most grievous of crimes of exterminating a whole people. Doing such to enable the supremacism and purity of a Greater Jewish state. You advocate genocide. No crimes are greater.

These charges are not hyperbole, on mine or the parts of others. Get your criminal and immoral intents through your head. You and others continue to defend all of this:

DominionSeraph, DucattiMonster, etc, you all continue to defend such positions of extreme violence and crime.

That's a pretty disgusting collection there. Imagine what the reaction would be if people on here were saying the same things about Israel.

People need to learn that this sort of thing is evil no matter who says it.

 

[rudder]

any group running a de-facto freaking equilvelent of the warsaw ghetto is completely evil. no racism involved.

Hamas has sworn to destroy Israel. Hamas got power in Gaza in 2007. After almost 700 rockets and 800+ mortar rounds fired at Israel after Hamas came to power Israel stepped up its blockade of Gaza. Even Egypt reported that Hamas was smuggling in weapons and explosives through Egypt. Egypt constructed barriers as well to prevent militant activity.

Are Egyptians racist as well?

 

[nehalem256]

Oh?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/05/30/uk-palestinians-israel-hamas-idUKTRE64T2AI20100530

Meshaal said if a "Palestinian state with real sovereignty" were established under the conditions he set out, then the nature of any subsequent ties with Israel would be decided democratically by the Palestinians.

How comforting. The people that elected a terrorist organization as their leadership will democratically determine how to treat Israel. I know if I was Israel that would allay all my fears

 

[Karl Agathon]

Hamas has sworn to destroy Israel. Hamas got power in Gaza in 2007. After almost 700 rockets and 800+ mortar rounds fired at Israel after Hamas came to power Israel stepped up its blockade of Gaza. Even Egypt reported that Hamas was smuggling in weapons and explosives through Egypt. Egypt constructed barriers as well to prevent militant activity.

Are Egyptians racist as well?

Egyptians aren't Jews/Israelis. Therefor, selective moral outraged 'progressives' and tunnel vision Israel haters don't care what they do.

 

[JEDIYoda]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/0...64T2AI20100530

That changes nothing ..the fact is and has been stated by Hamas leadership that their goal is the complete destruction of Israel. You can still have a goal of the complete destruction of somebody but still agree to a peace...for now......

 

[fskimospy]

That changes nothing ..the fact is and has been stated by Hamas leadership that their goal is the complete destruction of Israel. You can still have a goal of the complete destruction of somebody but still agree to a peace...for now......

Gee, I'm totally shocked at your response. Everyone screams "Hamas will only accept the annihilation of Israel!" When it turns out that's not true you just switch to "yeah but they totally don't mean it".

There's no arguing with that kind of logic. If you're determined to believe something no matter what, you're immune to evidence.

By the way I'm interested: can you name a single thing you would criticize about Israel's conduct in Gaza?

 

[QuantumPion]

By the way I'm interested: can you name a single thing you would criticize about Israel's conduct in Gaza?

This is a transparent debate tactic. Deflect attention away from your own atrocities by making your opponent's minor flaws the center of attention. It's like saying "well the Nazi's perpetrated the holocaust, but the allies probably shot some POW's at some point so they are both bad guys!"

Israel has done nothing that even remotely compares to using women and children as human shields, launching rockets from schools and hospitals, brainwashing children into being suicide bombers, and having an official government policy the genocide of an entire country.

 

[fskimospy]

This is a transparent debate tactic. Deflect attention away from your own atrocities by making your opponent's minor flaws the center of attention.

What the hell are you talking about?

Israel has done nothing that even remotely compares to using women and children as human shields, launching rockets from schools and hospitals, brainwashing children into being suicide bombers, and having an official government policy the genocide of an entire country.

It's interesting that you think that the actual act of killing the women and children does not 'even remotely compare' to hiding behind them.

 

[dainthomas]

Oh?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/05/30/uk-palestinians-israel-hamas-idUKTRE64T2AI20100530

"Long term truce" is Hamas code for slightly fewer rockets shot into Israel. The fact is that "obliteration and dissolution of Israel" was a stated goal of the original Hamas charter. These are not nice, reasonable people.

 

[zanejohnson]

about the whole human shields thing....


this little gem just surfaced recently..... IDF using palenstenian boy as human shield:

wonder where they learned that move?:

 

[Exophase]

That's a pretty disgusting collection there. Imagine what the reaction would be if people on here were saying the same things about Israel.

What, you think the no one here has ever posted calling for the destruction of Israel?

I long for the day that Israel gets nuked.

The world would be a better place if Israel was made into a glass parking lot...

This kind of stuff is said by both sides and has mostly been ignored and tolerated.

 

[zanejohnson]

except when Israel does it, it's just a "tactic," used so that they can move through occupied areas without being shot at....

to anyone else, it's clearly, a human shield.

 

[Riparian]

Oh?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/05/30/uk-palestinians-israel-hamas-idUKTRE64T2AI20100530

Hamas should probably take the first step in showing their good-faith by truly renouncing their original charter. Offering a truce while still not recognizing Israel's right to exist makes the offer seem like a stall tactic. Granted, even if they renounced their original charter, it could all be lip service. All in all, Hamas's credibility is not particularly high.

 

[CitizenKain]

Israel has done nothing that even remotely compares to using women and children as human shields, launching rockets from schools and hospitals, brainwashing children into being suicide bombers, and having an official government policy the genocide of an entire country.

What a load of shit, even for someone like you.

"Long term truce" is Hamas code for slightly fewer rockets shot into Israel. The fact is that "obliteration and dissolution of Israel" was a stated goal of the original Hamas charter. These are not nice, reasonable people.

Considering israel would never negotiate in good faith with anyone, what is the point of anyone ever bothering? You can't negotiate with dishonest people, and the leadership for isreal is exactly that.

 

[Exophase]

Considering israel would never negotiate in good faith with anyone, what is the point of anyone ever bothering? You can't negotiate with dishonest people, and the leadership for isreal is exactly that.

With an attitude like that nothing will ever improve. Unfortunately that sort of attitude is common on both sides - the opposition is permanently unreasonable and will never compromise so the only solution is one of extreme oppression or violence.

Governments aren't individuals, and even individuals are capable of change. Governments do change stances over time and as influence shift between different factions. Just look at how Egypt, Jordan, and other Arab countries have changed their stance in acknowledging the existence of Israel.

 

[nehalem256]

about the whole human shields thing....


this little gem just surfaced recently..... IDF using palenstenian boy as human shield:

How does a Palestinian boy sitting on a vehicle = human shield?

There is absolutely no context in the picture that would allow you to make your claim.

 

[nehalem256]

Considering israel would never negotiate in good faith with anyone, what is the point of anyone ever bothering? You can't negotiate with dishonest people, and the leadership for isreal is exactly that.

Didn't they negotiate in good faith with Egypt in the past?

 

[smackababy]

How does a Palestinian boy sitting on a vehicle = human shield?

There is absolutely no context in the picture that would allow you to make your claim.

Plus, how do we even know it is a Palestinian boy? Hell, it could be an Israeli boy who volunteered!