Who does they most assholes. I’m glad the short sellers are getting their clocks cleaned. I just hope the non-yolo folks caught up in the frenzy get out with a profit.
Who does they most assholes. I’m glad the short sellers are getting their clocks cleaned. I just hope the non-yolo folks caught up in the frenzy get out with a profit.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
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They like short traders quite a lot. Short traders keep the market fluid and usually minimize spikes/dips.
Please tell me the difference between these two hypothetical traders:
A) Buys low on Jan 18, sells high on Jan 19, buys low on Jan 20, sells high on Jan 21, buys low on Jan 22.
B) Buys low on Jan 18, sells high on Jan 19, buys low on Jan 20, sells high on Jan 21, buys low on Jan 22.
Hint: One people call evil assholes and one people seem to love.
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fleshconsumed
Diamond Member
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hal2kilo
Lifer
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Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
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I think your A and Bs are identical.
Shorting in itself isn't evil, it is necessary for market liquidity. However, what these companies did appears to be either unethical or maybe illegal.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
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No, no, no. All of the trades in one row was evil. All of the trades in the other row was perfectly fine.
The difference is that one of the two started Jan 15 with a sell. Thus every trade on that list is a short trade. Even though they are the exact same trades as the other person. We assign evilness to one set and angelic qualities to the other, for the exact same effect on the market.
There are illegal and unethical things going on in the stock market all the time. Shorting can go into that territory. But, in general, shorting is a good thing as long as everyone plays by the same set of rules.
The anger is right though. We have two sets of rules. Hedge funds have a different but overlapping set of rules compared to regular investors. Fraud is illegal in both. If fraud has occurred, it should stop and should be punished. The anger towards shorting is usually misguided. Unless there is fraud, the goal of short trade is basically identical to a regular trade: buy low and sell high. The short just started that buy/sell pattern with a sell instead of starting the buy/sell pattern with a buy.
Homerboy
Lifer
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Paratus
Lifer
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Fenixgoon
Lifer
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How is betting on a business's failure economically good? You (general you) are actively encouraging the collapse of a business.
dullard
Elite Member
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None of the buys or sells affect the business in any way, shape, or form, unless the business was going to try and short itself by issuing new shares. None of this gives or takes away a penny in profit from the business.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
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...except that's not where it stops with these big firms--they actively poison the well by pushing bad publicity regarding these companies in order to force their positions. The bet itself isn't inherently "wrong," but the nature of it being allowed and the inevitable nature of runaway capitalist shitbags create the certainty that these hedge funds will be spending much more money to release FUD into the news cycle about these companies.
So, making simple bets like this really isn't all that they are doing. They really are trying to destroy these businesses. Obviously, the SEC hasn't had much interest in dealing with this criminals, so it looks like the retail investors have decided that if they can force this scum to eat their faces by dealing them the only loss in the world that these soulless twats can ever tolerate--their fortunes--then maybe this is the only solution to this kind of criminality.
hell...what was that Israeli private special forces company that was hired to make those fake claims about AMD two years ago, releasing fake benchmarks, fake claims, an entirely fake company, fake bugs (some of it was the whole Meltdown and Spectre thing, but there were at least 3 incidents like this), that were all connected to some heavy short positions at the time (AMD was up to 40% short in those days)
Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
- 14,645
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You can short without thinking the company is going to go bankrupt. You can short any time you think there company is overvalued or when you think some event will push it down.
Paratus
Lifer
- Jun 4, 2004
- 16,721
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So if I understand what happened today.
So basically the small guy brokerages decided to help the hedge funds at the expense of their own customers.
Is that legal?
- Hedge funds need to buy GameStop stock (apparently more than is on the open market) to close out their shorts
- Reddit users and others have been buying it up driving up the price (especially as shorts close and they have to buy more stocks)
- Today several brokerages like Robinhood prevented small time buyers from buying more stock but would allow them to sell
- Hedge funds were able to purchase or sell as normal
So basically the small guy brokerages decided to help the hedge funds at the expense of their own customers.
Is that legal?
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 95,323
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Illegal as hell. But I am not sure SEC will hammer the fuckers that pulled this shit.
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 69,177
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It was even worse. Robinhood sold clients' shares without their permission. Basically patted the clients on the head and said, "this is for your own good." Today was Fantasy Island for lawyers.
Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
- 14,645
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Is there proof of that they were actually seeing them? I saw a few images posted, but haven't seen a legit news story about it.
I agree, today was class action city. The brokerages should be on the hook for any loses.
Brainonska511
Lifer
- Dec 10, 2005
- 24,158
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- 136
It also sounds like some of the clearing houses for stock transactions were starting to demand safe guards to protect themselves (eg, broker having to have more cash reserves). Though, the way that RH and a few other brokerage firms handled that seems off, to say the least.
I don't feel bad for the hedge funds - they've dug their own position. But this whole thing is like semi-rich internet bros taking on a hedge fund, and other people stupidly jumping on the bandwagon as if it some populist fantasy, but they are about to be left holding a giant bag of shit.
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cytg111
Lifer
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snoopy7548
Diamond Member
- Jan 1, 2005
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I like the "new stimulus check" for the Mjolnir.
thesmokingman
Platinum Member
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