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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
I dont really remember the details of Season 1, but I thought Theon living with the Starks was part of a treaty or something. But its not like the Starks abused him, and he turned on them. All the things that happened to him are a result of that. But the problem I have with the Theon storyline is the same I have with Sansa...enough with the abuse already. If they dont really have anything to say with those storylines, continue telling someone elses story.
Theon is the son of Balon Greyjoy, ruler of the Iron Isles. He fought for independence in Robert's Rebellion, but got fucked by Robert and Ned. Balon lost all his sons except Theon who was sent the Winterfell as ward of the Starks. They treated him fairly well it seems, like a youngest brother in law, just below Jon probably.

During Robb's rebellion to save Ned, Theon went to his father to get ships for Robb's war. Balon convinced Theon to act for his family instead of an agent for the Starks and claimed independence for the Iron Isles again, Theon helped and sacked Wintefell as a result.
 
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Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,440
8
81
Sure she didn't object or fight, but the implication was clear she wouldn't give consent. She couldn't say that because arranged marriages are coercive and she had no other options outside killing him. With Reek/Theon right there.
She was however not forced into the marriage. Littlefinger gave her a choice. That doesn't justify what Ramsay did and it doesn't make it anything but rape. But what I don't get is why people are only shocked when it happened and not when Sansa first made her decision, because it was obvious to me that this was the only realistic outcome. And since she isn't an idiot I'm going to assume it was obvious to Sansa too. She deeply hates the Boltons, there's no way she'd ever want to have sex with Ramsay. So what was the expectation here, that Ramsay would agree to never have sex with Sansa? Forget Ramsay, few people in this world would agree to that (bearing in mind that Ramsay was arguably more forced into the marriage than Sansa was, even if he wanted it anyway)

Yeah, maybe Stannis could have attacked in time, but that was probably never going to happen. Sansa knew it too, she told Littlefinger that she'd probably be married when he next saw her. And as satisfying as it would have been had Theon or Sansa killed Ramsay that wasn't going to happen because first of all, they probably didn't have the means, and second of all, they would have been in serious trouble. Okay, maybe Theon would be willing to sacrifice himself to save Sansa but it'd look awfully suspicious if she did nothing to stop this from happening, which would probably lead to grave danger for her (and she's already more or less exposed to Cersei now and therefore depending on the Boltons to shield her). And I don't think I have to say she'd be screwed for sure if she killed him herself. It's possible that she can, probably with the help of other forces, help to take down both Ramsay and Roose, but now is not a good opportunity.

So yeah, Sansa chose the marriage, and while she sure as hell doesn't want this she did her best to endure it. Her alternatives weren't great, but she trusted Littlefinger and would have believed he'd keep in her in hiding had she insisted on that. So she went through with something that she only recently said she'd rather die than submit to, why? Because it's her shot at possibly getting revenge at some point and it's her shot at restoring her family's honor. She's willing to go through something horrible for that end. And in my mind that makes her a lot braver and more determined than people give her credit for.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,683
59
91
Sure she didn't object or fight, but the implication was clear she wouldn't give consent. She couldn't say that because arranged marriages are coercive and she had no other options outside killing him. With Reek/Theon right there.
Yes, the pregnant pause before she said "I do" was hella long and more than enough to show that she was really forced into it.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,646
635
126
Sure she didn't object or fight, but the implication was clear she wouldn't give consent. She couldn't say that because arranged marriages are coercive and she had no other options outside killing him. With Reek/Theon right there.
Are you joking?

She could have said "no" when Petyr gave her the choice. She could have said "no" at the wedding. Hell, she could have said "no" when Ramsay told her to take off her clothes. She chose this. Undesirable though it may be, she has her reasons. Give it up.

It was unsettling. It was disturbing. It was violently sexual. It wasn't rape.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
6,715
1,833
136
Are you joking?

She could have said "no" when Petyr gave her the choice. She could have said "no" at the wedding. Hell, she could have said "no" when Ramsay told her to take off her clothes. She chose this. Undesirable though it may be, she has her reasons. Give it up.

It was unsettling. It was disturbing. It was violently sexual. It wasn't rape.
Let's not forget her first wedding night
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD-eFSQD7Mw
 

andylawcc

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
18,186
1
76
are we talking about the very last scene ( I am completely new to GoT and my roomate just showed me the last few minutes of it)? Is that scene that got people (um, feminists) all up in arms? It was hardly violent.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
What makes you think they don't have anything else to say? Wait for the next episode for Pete's sake!
Were not talking about next weeks episode! :p A lot can change in a week, but this episode really rubbed me the wrong way.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,646
635
126
are we talking about the very last scene ( I am completely new to GoT and my roomate just showed me the last few minutes of it)? Is that scene that got people (um, feminists) all up in arms? It was hardly violent.
Ripping her clothes off because she is taking too long is violence but feminist are barking up the wrong tree to call it rape. Forcing someone to watch under threat of extreme punishment it also violence.
 

Xonim

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2011
1,131
0
0
Doubt it. Sansa is still too young for adult scenes which was why we didn't see any skin in the last episode.
FWIW, IMDB says her birthday is 2/21/1996. A quick google search indicated S5 started filming in July, so she's actually old enough.

I just don't see the point.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
6
81
I think what people really fear of "mainstream" shows like GoT is that they are desensitizing the masses to so many things that used to be taboo to depict on screen because of their painful realities. Like rape. It's like a drug. We the viewers need to be taken to new heights until all we will accept is the "gladiator pit." Instead of "The Voice" we'll get "The Death." Who remembers "The Running Man?" Some panel will vote to see who dies. In the case of women, the audience will clap, enjoy, fap off to the poor soul being raped. Meanwhile, we'll wage war against ISIS for doing the same.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
6,715
1,833
136
I think what people really fear of "mainstream" shows like GoT is that they are desensitizing the masses to so many things that used to be taboo to depict on screen because of their painful realities. Like rape. It's like a drug. We the viewers need to be taken to new heights until all we will accept is the "gladiator pit." Instead of "The Voice" we'll get "The Death." Who remembers "The Running Man?" Some panel will vote to see who dies. In the case of women, the audience will clap, enjoy, fap off to the poor soul being raped. Meanwhile, we'll wage war against ISIS for doing the same.

GoT is not a mainstream show. It is show shown at late night on a premium channel. It is based on book series that most would never attempt at reading.

The scene depicted the act of consummation as per social rules established on the show.
It's an arranged marriage. The wedding night is a contractual affair as per social custom established in the show.
Sansa was prepared for it and knew what she was getting into, just as she did on her wedding night with Tyrion.
The scene itself was not as graphic as the earlier scenes with Daenerys and Drogo and the scenes focus was not on the actual act.

The issue is that many people lack the ability to watch a complex long running show and should probably just turn it off and stick to buzzfeed or playing on their cell phone.

They should have a disclaimer in the beginning of the show that it is inappropriate for sensitive views.
 
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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,316
405
126
They should have a disclaimer in the beginning of the show that it is inappropriate for sensitive views.
They kind of do with their TV MA rating at the beginning, which also lists out the reasons for the rating. Although, "Strong Sexual Content" is a bit ambiguous -- maybe they need another reason to better suit Game of Thrones. :p
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,646
635
126
I think what people really fear of "mainstream" shows like GoT is that they are desensitizing the masses to so many things that used to be taboo to depict on screen because of their painful realities. Like rape. It's like a drug. We the viewers need to be taken to new heights until all we will accept is the "gladiator pit." Instead of "The Voice" we'll get "The Death." Who remembers "The Running Man?" Some panel will vote to see who dies. In the case of women, the audience will clap, enjoy, fap off to the poor soul being raped. Meanwhile, we'll wage war against ISIS for doing the same.
....but it wasn't rape. People assume it is because of the emotions, but it's not. Someone should edit it with different lighting, romantic music, and Theon/dialog directed toward Theon cut out. You could make it look like 50 Shades (Note: I haven't seen 50 Shades).
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
101,329
15,529
136
....but it wasn't rape. People assume it is because of the emotions, but it's not. Someone should edit it with different lighting, romantic music, and Theon/dialog directed toward Theon cut out. You could make it look like 50 Shades (Note: I haven't seen 50 Shades).
If anything, the Jamie/Cersei bit on King Inbred's corpse was the closest thing this show has to showing a rape...but I still wouldn't exactly call that a rape.

Well, it was, then it wasn't...but maybe it was in the end? Was it "legitimate rape"? I dunno--we need to poll the GOP caucus for their opinion on that one.

Either way, people didn't seem all that bothered by Jamie/Cersei. I think the real issue here is that people are in love with Sansa for some stupid reason. She annoys me to no end as it is, and I've long assumed that she exists as nothing more than to act as a sponge for all the evils in Westeros.

I guess I wasn't shocked at all? Were people actually shocked that this happened? If so, why? Is this the first episode of GoT that they have seen?
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,646
635
126
Well, I do recall the Jamie/Cersei rape causing a hoopla at least as big, but this time it wasn't even rape and yet we get senators calling for boycotts. :rolleyes:

Even if it was indisputably rape:
Rapes happen. Bad stuff happens. What's wrong with a fictional show that depicts bad stuff happening? Is it all supposed to be flowers and happy happy gumdrop factories?! You can't tell a story that involves bad stuff happening? Why the Hell not?!
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
6,715
1,833
136
If anything, the Jamie/Cersei bit on King Inbred's corpse was the closest thing this show has to showing a rape...but I still wouldn't exactly call that a rape.

Well, it was, then it wasn't...but maybe it was in the end? Was it "legitimate rape"? I dunno--we need to poll the GOP caucus for their opinion on that one.

Either way, people didn't seem all that bothered by Jamie/Cersei. I think the real issue here is that people are in love with Sansa for some stupid reason. She annoys me to no end as it is, and I've long assumed that she exists as nothing more than to act as a sponge for all the evils in Westeros.

I guess I wasn't shocked at all? Were people actually shocked that this happened? If so, why? Is this the first episode of GoT that they have seen?
I think it may have to do with some people getting all "You go girl" with her when she got all littelfingery goth empowerment girl at the end of last season.
Now they are all pissed that she isn't a superhero and is being placed in the position where she has to overcome real world challenges in a way that actually make sense within the realities of the show.
 

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