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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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Feb 6, 2007
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like Tywin, it hasn't been explicitly said, but one could probably assume it given that he seems to know everything else that happens anywhere in the world.
The one thing I'm sure Verys doesn't know is the extent of Littlefinger's involvement. Verys has repeatedly said that he wouldn't support plots that would consolidate Littlefinger's power, since he basically just wants to watch the world burn. Come to think of it, I would imagine that Verys' earlier conversation with Olenna Tyrell about Littlefinger might have prompted her to reach out to him in the first place, in which case they'd be smart to not let Verys in on their doings. So I'm not convinced that Verys knows all that much about the plot, apart from Tyrion being innocent, which I think everyone with a brain realizes.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
102,692
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jaime was the one getting clubbed :p
Yup--because he always refused to fight dishonorably. Bronn taught him a valuable lesson, and there would be no reason for that scene if it wouldn't come up again later. I mentioned this some page ago, and I bet we'll see it next week.
 

radhak

Senior member
Aug 10, 2011
843
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Whatever else happens, I'm sure Tywin will never allow Jaime to fight for Tyrion.

He doesn't care whether Tyrion lives or dies; he doesn't care if Joffrey is avenged or not. He does know that Jaime is not exactly battle ready, and even if he were, the risk of dying in a pointless (pointless to him, Tywin) battle would not be something a guy like Tywin will even consider.

The only reason he seems to be even allowing this farce of a trial is that he's not overly impacted by the outcomes (Tyrion lives or dies), and his daughter will be mollified.
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,194
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The main reason tywin is using the trial is to remove tyrion as his heir and guilt trip Jaime into carrying on the lannisters name. Tywin doesn't want tyrion to die, but he loses all claims to casterly rock if he goes to the wall.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
28,806
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I Just want to say, I follow/lurk on this thread and have read all the books.
It is REALLY entertaining to watch everyone's guessing and theories and such. :)
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
102,692
17,081
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Whatever else happens, I'm sure Tywin will never allow Jaime to fight for Tyrion.

He doesn't care whether Tyrion lives or dies; he doesn't care if Joffrey is avenged or not. He does know that Jaime is not exactly battle ready, and even if he were, the risk of dying in a pointless (pointless to him, Tywin) battle would not be something a guy like Tywin will even consider.

The only reason he seems to be even allowing this farce of a trial is that he's not overly impacted by the outcomes (Tyrion lives or dies), and his daughter will be mollified.
AFAIK, Nothing Tywin can do about that. I believe it is the honor of the accused to pick whichever champion they want. I would think that only the chosen Champion can refuse--and I doubt Jamie would do that.

And it is exactly why Tyrion would pick Jamie; he knows daddy would never put his precious son in danger like that, and certainly not for the honor of his hated son.

It forces Tywin to chose a scrub that will lose to Jamie, or pick someone like Bronn that he knows is Tyrion's ally and friend. But that would only happen if Tywin doesn't actually know how capable a fighter Bronn is. That certainly make for some serious tension.

Now, if Tyrion does pick Bronn, which is certainly possible, Tywin would go with someone like the Mountain, I suppose (I doubt he would go with Jamie, for all the reasons that The Tyrion picks Jamie scenario make any sense). But that would be predicatable, lame, boring, and utterly indefensible from the writers' perspective.

For 3 seasons, we are shown that Tyrion has nothing but his wit to keep him going in the world, that he hates his father and sister more than anything, and is in a regular struggle to out-maneuver them and all their machinations. And this season, we saw Tyrion encourage Jamie to retrain, gave him a more than capable partner, and we saw Jamie learning how to fight like it mattered, promise to do anything for Tyrion that he needed, etc.

Basically, I don't believe that all of that has been shoved in our faces for no reason....because that's exactly what it amounts to if Tyrion doesn't pick Jamie, thus forcing papa into a lose-lose situation.

I also predict that if this does happen, I will be accused a book reader and banned form the thread (for the crime of paying attention to the damn show :D), or laughed at for being wrong and all of us watching the boring, predictable thing happen. :\

He can't pick Jamie...the father set that outright.
no such thing ever happened.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Now, if Tyrion does pick Bronn, which is certainly possible, Tywin would go with someone like the Mountain, I suppose (I doubt he would go with Jamie, for all the reasons that The Tyrion picks Jamie scenario make any sense). But that would be predicatable, lame, boring, and utterly indefensible from the writers' perspective.
If Tywin picks the Mountain, which is a possibility, it utterly shatters his credibility with the Tyrells since he told Oberyn that the Mountain was a fugitive from justice on the lam doing his own thing. I don't see Tywin doing that; it just doesn't make sense to make Oberyn an enemy when there are plenty of fighters available Tywin would see as superior to Bronn, a sellsword without the advanced training available to knights.
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,194
2
76
Does no one remember the trial at the eyrie? The accused is supposed to fight for them self in a trial by combat unless they are unable to and someone volunteers for it. Tyrion was going to have to fight a full grown man until bronn volunteered. Tyrion didn't pick bronn.

Tyrion has no option other than to fight for himself pray someone else volunteers. He said Jaime was his champion at the eyrie because he knew Jaime would volunteer no matter what and it would buy him time.

The accuser gets to choose a volunteer because its not supposed to be fair.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,301
1,992
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AFAIK, Nothing Tywin can do about that. I believe it is the honor of the accused to pick whichever champion they want. I would think that only the chosen Champion can refuse--and I doubt Jamie would do that.

And it is exactly why Tyrion would pick Jamie; he knows daddy would never put his precious son in danger like that, and certainly not for the honor of his hated son.

It forces Tywin to chose a scrub that will lose to Jamie, or pick someone like Bronn that he knows is Tyrion's ally and friend. But that would only happen if Tywin doesn't actually know how capable a fighter Bronn is. That certainly make for some serious tension.

Now, if Tyrion does pick Bronn, which is certainly possible, Tywin would go with someone like the Mountain, I suppose (I doubt he would go with Jamie, for all the reasons that The Tyrion picks Jamie scenario make any sense). But that would be predicatable, lame, boring, and utterly indefensible from the writers' perspective.

For 3 seasons, we are shown that Tyrion has nothing but his wit to keep him going in the world, that he hates his father and sister more than anything, and is in a regular struggle to out-maneuver them and all their machinations. And this season, we saw Tyrion encourage Jamie to retrain, gave him a more than capable partner, and we saw Jamie learning how to fight like it mattered, promise to do anything for Tyrion that he needed, etc.

Basically, I don't believe that all of that has been shoved in our faces for no reason....because that's exactly what it amounts to if Tyrion doesn't pick Jamie, thus forcing papa into a lose-lose situation.

I also predict that if this does happen, I will be accused a book reader and banned form the thread (for the crime of paying attention to the damn show :D), or laughed at for being wrong and all of us watching the boring, predictable thing happen. :\



no such thing ever happened.

That's an interesting game of Chicken, but it's ridiculous. The Crown can't pick an 8th-rate fighter as their champion, it would be embarrassing and it would be obvious the results were rigged. The prosecution HAS to pick somebody known as a bad-ass even if Jaime was on the other side and Tyrion would understand that.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
20,739
19,498
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If Tywin picks the Mountain, which is a possibility, it utterly shatters his credibility with the Tyrells since he told Oberyn that the Mountain was a fugitive from justice on the lam doing his own thing. I don't see Tywin doing that; it just doesn't make sense to make Oberyn an enemy when there are plenty of fighters available Tywin would see as superior to Bronn, a sellsword without the advanced training available to knights.
I thought it was Robert Baretheon that ordered all the Targaryens to be killed? I didn't catch where Tywin said the Mountain was a fugitive from justice in this season's episodes.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
That's an interesting game of Chicken, but it's ridiculous. The Crown can't pick an 8th-rate fighter as their champion, it would be embarrassing and it would be obvious the results were rigged. The prosecution HAS to pick somebody known as a bad-ass even if Jaime was on the other side and Tyrion would understand that.
Right, they couldn't pick a Ser Dontos level idiot. I get the theory Jamie will be picked by Tyrion, I just haven't heard a compelling opponent named.

That makes me lean towards Oberyn for Tyrion and the Mountain for Tywin. If Oberyn wins Tywin keeps his word to Oberyn and Tyrion obviously wins by staying alive.

If Overyn loses Tywin defeats a powerful opponent and Tyrion could still possibly go to the wall (or accepting his punishment if he's stubborn). Tywin would see all results acceptable. Tyrion would think his odds of Oberyn vs. whoever is better than a vote.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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I thought it was Robert Baretheon that ordered all the Targaryens to be killed? I didn't catch where Tywin said the Mountain was a fugitive from justice in this season's episodes.
The conversation Tywin has with Oberyn Tyrell in the whorehouse. Oberyn tells Tywin that he blames him for the death of his sister as the Mountain, who killed her, was operating under Tywin's orders. Tywin responds that the Mountain was not operating under orders and was currently a fugitive pillaging the Riverlands. That's the only way Tywin could convince Oberyn to sit on the trial.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,301
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Right, they couldn't pick a Ser Dontos level idiot. I get the theory Jamie will be picked by Tyrion, I just haven't heard a compelling opponent named.

That makes me lean towards Oberyn for Tyrion and the Mountain for Tywin. If Oberyn wins Tywin keeps his word to Oberyn and Tyrion obviously wins by staying alive.

If Overyn loses Tywin defeats a powerful opponent and Tyrion could still possibly go to the wall (or accepting his punishment if he's stubborn). Tywin would see all results acceptable. Tyrion would think his odds of Oberyn vs. whoever is better than a vote.

The Mountain for the Crown seems like the only obvious choice. Their best fighters would be Jaime (incapacitated and wouldn't fight to convict Tyrion anyway) Sandor (absent) Selmy (gone) or Gregor. The Mountain is the logical pick by default. And if it is The Mountain then Oberyn would love to step in for Tyrion, he wants to kill Gregor and doing it in such a public way would be extra-sweet. There is no freaking way, none at all, that Tyrion picks Jaime under any circumstances, even as a game of chicken. Although it would be pretty hilarious if the Crown picked Jaime and Tyrion picked Jaime to oppose Jaime.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,762
3
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Question about the books in the context of this thread: Does the plot progression in the books align with the TV series in any way? As in, could I read book 1 to book X and end just before the start of this season? I do like seeing it on TV first since I saw the TV show first, and I plan to read the books after the series concludes, but I'd really like if I can read the books and lag the series by the current season. Is that doable?

EDIT: So a careful, avert my eyes of spoilers, google suggests to me that Season 1 covers A Game of Thrones (or rather, the opposite). Season 2 is covered by A Clash of Kings. When this season concludes, A Storm of Swords should be covered. Am I ruining the show for myself if I read the first 2 books and start the 3rd after this season ends on TV?
 
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sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,762
3
76
The Mountain for the Crown seems like the only obvious choice. Their best fighters would be Jaime (incapacitated and wouldn't fight to convict Tyrion anyway) Sandor (absent) Selmy (gone) or Gregor. The Mountain is the logical pick by default. And if it is The Mountain then Oberyn would love to step in for Tyrion, he wants to kill Gregor and doing it in such a public way would be extra-sweet. There is no freaking way, none at all, that Tyrion picks Jaime under any circumstances, even as a game of chicken. Although it would be pretty hilarious if the Crown picked Jaime and Tyrion picked Jaime to oppose Jaime.
Doesn't someone have to volunteer as champion for Tyrion? I thought last time, Bronn volunteered, Tyrion didn't just get to outright pick someone. Then again, it's been a while since I watched that season.

I think that's the real buildup - will Jaime volunteer unprompted? My guess is yes, unless the buildup of his and Tyrion's relationship all this time was a red herring. Either way, I can't wait to see it.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
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Doesn't someone have to volunteer as champion for Tyrion? I thought last time, Bronn volunteered, Tyrion didn't just get to outright pick someone. Then again, it's been a while since I watched that season.

I think that's the real buildup - will Jaime volunteer unprompted? My guess is yes, unless the buildup of his and Tyrion's relationship all this time was a red herring. Either way, I can't wait to see it.
Tyrion absolutely picked someone; he chose Jaime Lannister. However, Lysa demanded that the trial be settled right then and there, not contingent upon Jaime getting to the Eyrie. It was only then that Bronn volunteered.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
1
81
Question about the books in the context of this thread: Does the plot progression in the books align with the TV series in any way? As in, could I read book 1 to book X and end just before the start of this season? I do like seeing it on TV first since I saw the TV show first, and I plan to read the books after the series concludes, but I'd really like if I can read the books and lag the series by the current season. Is that doable?
To a certain extent their plots align. I haven't read the books, but the first two seasons of the show follow the books almost verbatim according to my book-reading friends. However, it does start separating with the events of season 3; some characters only exist in one medium or the other, and the pacing of the plot changes. So, no, you can't really read the books and always stay just behind the events of the show.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Question about the books in the context of this thread: Does the plot progression in the books align with the TV series in any way? As in, could I read book 1 to book X and end just before the start of this season? I do like seeing it on TV first since I saw the TV show first, and I plan to read the books after the series concludes, but I'd really like if I can read the books and lag the series by the current season. Is that doable?

EDIT: So a careful, avert my eyes of spoilers, google suggests to me that Season 1 covers A Game of Thrones (or rather, the opposite). Season 2 is covered by A Clash of Kings. When this season concludes, A Storm of Swords should be covered. Am I ruining the show for myself if I read the first 2 books and start the 3rd after this season ends on TV?
From what I understand the first 3 books, yes. Books 4-5 it splits timelines and does things by continent. As in book 4 is all the stuff in Westeros and book 5 is Essos.

I read one thing where they recommended you read things in chronological order by going book 4 ch 1-4, book 5 ch 1-3, back to book 4 ch 5 or whatever. Basically weaving the chapters from each book in order.

edit: I could have the book numbers off by one.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,687
59
91
.....
EDIT: So a careful, avert my eyes of spoilers, google suggests to me that Season 1 covers A Game of Thrones (or rather, the opposite). Season 2 is covered by A Clash of Kings. When this season concludes, A Storm of Swords should be covered. Am I ruining the show for myself if I read the first 2 books and start the 3rd after this season ends on TV?
No. The tv show after 4 seasons should be ahead of book 3.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,301
1,992
126
Doesn't someone have to volunteer as champion for Tyrion? I thought last time, Bronn volunteered, Tyrion didn't just get to outright pick someone. Then again, it's been a while since I watched that season.

I think that's the real buildup - will Jaime volunteer unprompted? My guess is yes, unless the buildup of his and Tyrion's relationship all this time was a red herring. Either way, I can't wait to see it.
I'm don't recall them going into any great detail on the legal small print of champions fighting other champions in trial by combat. I *believe* that the accused and the champion have to agree. The accused can't force someone to fight on his behalf against his will and the prosecution can't force the accused to use a patsy. So the accused would ask some person he trusted (like Tryion chose Jaime) and then ask another person if that person refused and so on down the line, then would be forced to do it himself if he could not find a volunteer. The crown would do the same although they likely have a much much much larger pool of potential champions to choose from.
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
Bronn's one of the most dangerous fighters on the show, I'd take him against just about anyone in a winner-take-all. However, Tyrion himself will have to fight unless someone volunteers to stand for him, and Bronn has vanished, likely to avoid being connected to the King's murder. I doubt it will be Jaime, Jaime won't volunteer except as a last resort, because he knows that will only end up getting them both killed.
 

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