Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
Game of thrones really doesn't have much violence when it comes down to it. I've been far more shocked by vikings on regular cable than I have been by got on HBO.
 

raasco

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2009
2,664
3
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Is anyone using the HBOGO app on the PS3? Just wondering if you're also having stuttering issues.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Game of thrones really doesn't have much violence when it comes down to it. I've been far more shocked by vikings on regular cable than I have been by got on HBO.
While it doesn't have the quantity of violence that Vikings has, when it does have violence they make sure it is quality violence.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,737
4,509
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One question. Does Tywin "know" that Tyrion is innocent and is just pushing the trial as a way to get rid of his least favorite son? Tywin is so intelligent and seems to be such a good judge of peoples character that I can't help but wonder if his brain was running on all cylinders that he would damn well know Tyrion just isn't sloppy enough to assassinate someone in such an obvious incriminating fashion that would end with him holding the bag.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
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One question. Does Tywin "know" that Tyrion is innocent and is just pushing the trial as a way to get rid of his least favorite son? Tywin is so intelligent and seems to be such a good judge of peoples character that I can't help but wonder if his brain was running on all cylinders that he would damn well know Tyrion just isn't sloppy enough to assassinate someone in such an obvious incriminating fashion that would end with him holding the bag.
it hasn't been said, one way or the other.

that said, he's a smart guy and he could possibly reason that Tyrion doesn't really have anything to gain by assassinating Joffrey (tbh, Tywin is probably glad it happened)... but he did plan on using the trial to get everything he wanted, though, by sending Tyrion into exile at the Wall and getting Jamie to take his rightful place as the Lord of Casterly Rock.
 
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
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One question. Does Tywin "know" that Tyrion is innocent and is just pushing the trial as a way to get rid of his least favorite son? Tywin is so intelligent and seems to be such a good judge of peoples character that I can't help but wonder if his brain was running on all cylinders that he would damn well know Tyrion just isn't sloppy enough to assassinate someone in such an obvious incriminating fashion that would end with him holding the bag.
i think he believes him to be innocent, but

1. SOMEONE has to be found guilty, whether or not it's the right person is less important.

2. he hates tyrion.

3. it's reasonable to think he may have expected an opportunity to release jaime from the king's guard.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,235
115
116
One question. Does Tywin "know" that Tyrion is innocent and is just pushing the trial as a way to get rid of his least favorite son? Tywin is so intelligent and seems to be such a good judge of peoples character that I can't help but wonder if his brain was running on all cylinders that he would damn well know Tyrion just isn't sloppy enough to assassinate someone in such an obvious incriminating fashion that would end with him holding the bag.
Tywin has to know, he is one of the smartest around, as is Tyrion, so no way he thinks Tyrion did it. To me it seemed like he orchestrated it all to get Jaime back on the heir track and out of the King's Guard (and away from Cersei so he has "children with the Lannister name") and at the same time getting rid of Tyrion by sending him off to the Night's Watch.

KT
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
One question. Does Tywin "know" that Tyrion is innocent and is just pushing the trial as a way to get rid of his least favorite son? Tywin is so intelligent and seems to be such a good judge of peoples character that I can't help but wonder if his brain was running on all cylinders that he would damn well know Tyrion just isn't sloppy enough to assassinate someone in such an obvious incriminating fashion that would end with him holding the bag.
I think it's more likely Tywin believes Tyrion is guilty (unless Tywin was in on the plot to kill Joffrey, which I don't think is the case). But I also think he believes ridding his family of Tyrion is more important, thus he doesn't care to evaluate his beliefs in this instance.

What I want to know is what's going through Margaery's head sitting and watching the Lannisters put on this fake act. On one hand she could be like "good, they're not blaming my family, who actually did poison Joffrey," or it could be like "that family is one giant fucked up sack of crazy!"
 
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Feb 6, 2007
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I came away with the impression that Tywin is convinced of Tyrion's innocence, but he doesn't care, because it accomplishes three goals; First, it puts someone more malleable and predictable on the throne, which leaves Tywin free to do as he will as Hand of the King; Second, it gets Jaime out of the King's Guard and allows the Lannister name to live on through his heirs; Third, it gets rid of Tyrion, whom Tywin "loves" as a father, but despises as a person, and it gets rid of him in a way that doesn't end with him dead (theoretically, although who knows now that trial by combat has been invoked). The Lannister legacy is more important to Tywin than anything, and framing Tyrion for Joffrey's death does more to cement the Lannister future as Tywin wants it than it would to find out that the Tyrells were behind it, eliminating any opportunity to create a strategic alliance that also helps pay the debts of the crown.

So, yeah, Tywin knows Tyrion is innocent, but it's much more convenient if Tyrion is found guilty, so fuck 'em.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
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I am sure Tywin isn't stupid enough to believe Tyrion would murder the king and leave himself there standing with the cup to be blamed. However, he isn't going to save Tyrion if it gets in the way of his goals. He said he would have killed Tyrion when he was born had he not been a Lannister, and him being blamed for murdering the king is a convienent way to get rid of him with as little dirt on the name as possible. Jaime offering to take his rightful place at Casterly Rock is only even more reason for Tywin to use Tyrion as the scapegoat.
 

KillerBee

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2010
1,753
82
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except now that Tyrion threw in the Trial-by-combat wrench
I would guess the Jamie being forced to quit Knights guard deal is off now
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
27,837
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One question. Does Tywin "know" that Tyrion is innocent and is just pushing the trial as a way to get rid of his least favorite son? Tywin is so intelligent and seems to be such a good judge of peoples character that I can't help but wonder if his brain was running on all cylinders that he would damn well know Tyrion just isn't sloppy enough to assassinate someone in such an obvious incriminating fashion that would end with him holding the bag.
how about:
he did the trial to force Jamie out of kingsguard and carry on the lannister name
 
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cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
24
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it hasn't been said, one way or the other.

that said, he's a smart guy and he could possibly reason that Tyrion doesn't really have anything to gain by assassinating Joffrey (tbh, Tywin is probably glad it happened)... but he did plan on using the trial to get everything he wanted, though, by sending Tyrion into exile at the Wall and getting Jamie to take his rightful place as the Lord of Casterly Rock.
This is what I got from that scene with Jaime. As soon as Jaime offered the deal of him leaving the King's Guard and go back to Casterly Rock if he let Tyrion live, Tywin was like "Done", and Jaime's face looked as if he was thinking "Crap he agreed immediately which means it's exactly what he wanted. I probably should have offered something else."
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
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how about:
he did the trial to force Jamie out of kingsguard and carry on the lannister name
That seems like a rather elaborate ruse to gamble Jaime would offer to spare Tyrion's life (if he truly believed he was innocent) to further taint his honor. Nobody, save for Jaime and Brienne, know why Jaime killed the Mad King. And it wasn't until Jaime confronted Tywin that Tywin even know Aerys commanded Jaime to bring him Tywin's head.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,975
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Think he'll pick Jaime as his champion this time? Something tells me Mr. Lefty isn't up to the challenge. :whiste:
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
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Thanks for the thoughts all.

I'm thinking Tyrion will pick Jamie to champion him, with Tywin naming Bronn as his champion in a stunning reversal. If I were Tyrion I'd honestly probably name Bronn as champion first. :p
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
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you guys forget someone has to take the fall or the people who did it can never rest.
The only person that really seems to care about it is Cersei, and she is convinced Tyrion did it, evidence be damned!

I'd also like to say some things concerning who I think Tyrion should choose, if for not reason other than to really be be a wise and beautiful woman, but will refrain as to not remove any names from the table.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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The only person that really seems to care about it is Cersei, and she is convinced Tyrion did it, evidence be damned!
To be fair, there is plenty of evidence against Tyrion. We have the benefit of knowing he didn't do it, but he openly mocked and threatened the king all the time, he was ruthlessly tormented by Joffrey, and he was holding the poisoned cup that killed him. He has a clear motive and he was caught holding the murder weapon; that would be enough to get Tyrion convicted in OUR legal system, let alone some dark ages farce. Add in the fact that Cersei is blinded by love (for her son, not Tyrion), rage and booze and it's not even remotely shocking that she'd pursue vengeance so aggressively.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
107,554
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That seems like a rather elaborate ruse to gamble Jaime would offer to spare Tyrion's life (if he truly believed he was innocent) to further taint his honor. Nobody, save for Jaime and Brienne, know why Jaime killed the Mad King. And it wasn't until Jaime confronted Tywin that Tywin even know Aerys commanded Jaime to bring him Tywin's head.
Yeah, I'm thinking less and less that Tywin was involved--knowing LF plotted with the Tyrells, I don't see much room or need for Tywin in the plan (...unless holding the queen's seat open for Margaery, in exchange for relief of much of the Lannister debt, was part of it...); but Tywin seemed all too happy or, at the very least, completely ambivalent over the death of Joffs. It's pretty clear that he never liked the little prick anyway.

I'm still leaning 90% towards Tyrion picking Jamie to fight for him. Seems like the right play, because nothing would piss off daddy more than that. And Jamie will use his solid gold hand to club his opponent, as we saw in the Bronn fight.
 
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Mar 10, 2005
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Yeah, I'm thinking less and less that Tywin was involved--knowing LF plotted with the Tyrells, I don't see much room or need for Tywin in the plan (...unless holding the queen's seat open for Margaery, to relieve much of their debt, was part of it...); but Tywin seemed all too happy or, at the very least, completely ambivalent over the death of Joffs. It's pretty clear that he never liked the little prick anyway.
tywin isn't involved - this is all part of the plan to bring down the lannisters.

I'm still leaning 90% towards Tyrion picking Jamie to fight for him. Seems like the right play, because nothing would piss off daddy more than that. And Jamie will use his solid gold hand to club his opponent, as we saw in the Bronn fight.
jaime was the one getting clubbed :p
 

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