Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
27,839
1,600
126
Right, they couldn't pick a Ser Dontos level idiot. I get the theory Jamie will be picked by Tyrion, I just haven't heard a compelling opponent named.

That makes me lean towards Oberyn for Tyrion and the Mountain for Tywin. If Oberyn wins Tywin keeps his word to Oberyn and Tyrion obviously wins by staying alive.

If Overyn loses Tywin defeats a powerful opponent and Tyrion could still possibly go to the wall (or accepting his punishment if he's stubborn). Tywin would see all results acceptable. Tyrion would think his odds of Oberyn vs. whoever is better than a vote.
tyrion can pick one of his judges as champion?!

in that case, why not pick his father?
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
27,839
1,600
126
Question about the books in the context of this thread: Does the plot progression in the books align with the TV series in any way? As in, could I read book 1 to book X and end just before the start of this season? I do like seeing it on TV first since I saw the TV show first, and I plan to read the books after the series concludes, but I'd really like if I can read the books and lag the series by the current season. Is that doable?

EDIT: So a careful, avert my eyes of spoilers, google suggests to me that Season 1 covers A Game of Thrones (or rather, the opposite). Season 2 is covered by A Clash of Kings. When this season concludes, A Storm of Swords should be covered. Am I ruining the show for myself if I read the first 2 books and start the 3rd after this season ends on TV?
the books and tv are diverging more and more
 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
91
Doesn't someone have to volunteer as champion for Tyrion? I thought last time, Bronn volunteered, Tyrion didn't just get to outright pick someone. Then again, it's been a while since I watched that season.

I think that's the real buildup - will Jaime volunteer unprompted? My guess is yes, unless the buildup of his and Tyrion's relationship all this time was a red herring. Either way, I can't wait to see it.
I think there is a bit of foreshadowing as well with Jaime being taught how to fight with one hand in secret. They made a big deal about everyone believing Jaime is worthless now but Jaime wants to prove everyone wrong. He also knows that Tyrion is innocent and is a bit pissed at his father.

Basically, my money is on Jaime defending Tyrion.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
107,554
23,451
146
Doesn't someone have to volunteer as champion for Tyrion? I thought last time, Bronn volunteered, Tyrion didn't just get to outright pick someone. Then again, it's been a while since I watched that season.

I think that's the real buildup - will Jaime volunteer unprompted? My guess is yes, unless the buildup of his and Tyrion's relationship all this time was a red herring. Either way, I can't wait to see it.
He picked Jamie, because it is the right of the accused to pick a champion if they are unable to fight for themselves. Birdlady wouldn't allow it because she wanted the trial that moment, and Jamie was on the other side of the continent.

Then the request for volunteers, and Bronn stepped up. Bronn again related how this happened to Jamie during their first training sequence this season. "He picked you because he knew you would ride from the other side of the world to defend him."

Guys..this is all being set up. :D
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
tyrion can pick one of his judges as champion?!

in that case, why not pick his father?
In a trial by combat there are no judges, declaring trial by combat changes the dynamics. Oberyn isn't a judge in that case, the gods are. The gods judge the accused and if he's innocent they give him or his champion with the ability to win the fight. If he's guilty, the god give the opponent the ability to win the fight.

edit: he could pick his father, but he wouldn't accept.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
24
91
I know this has been discussed several times before but the more I think about this trial by combat thing the more I think it's a severe Deus Ex Machina case, i.e. lazy GRRM writing. He can basically do anything with it and it's a super convenient 'plot smoother'. But no, I'm not complaining that much. It's still fun to watch either way.
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,127
6
81
Probably. We haven't actually seen Bronn fight anybody we know to be an exceptional fighter, have we? The Mountain on the other hand fought the Hound to a standstill back in Season 1, and we know the Hound is one heck of a fighter.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Probably. We haven't actually seen Bronn fight anybody we know to be an exceptional fighter, have we? The Mountain on the other hand fought the Hound to a standstill back in Season 1, and we know the Hound is one heck of a fighter.
Not against anyone we know to be good, but he was cutting up people outside Blackwater pretty quick. His confidence in his skill says a lot. He'd be dead with his attitude if he was bad. ;)
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
I know this has been discussed several times before but the more I think about this trial by combat thing the more I think it's a severe Deus Ex Machina case, i.e. lazy GRRM writing. He can basically do anything with it and it's a super convenient 'plot smoother'. But no, I'm not complaining that much. It's still fun to watch either way.
I was surprised to see it again, and twice with Tyrion.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
27,839
1,600
126
I know this has been discussed several times before but the more I think about this trial by combat thing the more I think it's a severe Deus Ex Machina case, i.e. lazy GRRM writing. He can basically do anything with it and it's a super convenient 'plot smoother'. But no, I'm not complaining that much. It's still fun to watch either way.
"lets the gods decide"

if theres more trail by combat, I except grrm to come up with a priest turned into Holy Warrior. this priest can turn his skin into stone.

stone skin + plate armor = tank

and of course, the priest in the next book will come across a tank stopper named Mother of Dragons. More specifically, fire from her dragons. hilarity ensues
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
86
Probably. We haven't actually seen Bronn fight anybody we know to be an exceptional fighter, have we? The Mountain on the other hand fought the Hound to a standstill back in Season 1, and we know the Hound is one heck of a fighter.
We saw him in the joust against the Knight of Flowers, and it could be argued he only lost because Lorell "cheated". We saw him start to fight against Sandor right after, and it look as if Sandor had the upper hand.

Sandor later claimed him and Bronn were the same, except he was bigger and stronger, to which Bronn replied that he was faster.

We know Sandor's strength is great and he relies on his "big fucking sword" rather than the swiftness, and it has served him well so far. I'd assume the Mountain is much similar, just bigger and stronger.

If Tyrion himself were to fight the Mountain, I'd imagine it to look a lot like a Dark Souls fight. The smaller guy dodging and rolling and getting in smalls hits, hoping to avoid that one strike that kills him.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
107,554
23,451
146
We saw him in the joust against the Knight of Flowers, and it could be argued he only lost because Lorell "cheated". We saw him start to fight against Sandor right after, and it look as if Sandor had the upper hand.

Sandor later claimed him and Bronn were the same, except he was bigger and stronger, to which Bronn replied that he was faster.

We know Sandor's strength is great and he relies on his "big fucking sword" rather than the swiftness, and it has served him well so far. I'd assume the Mountain is much similar, just bigger and stronger.

If Tyrion himself were to fight the Mountain, I'd imagine it to look a lot like a Dark Souls fight. The smaller guy dodging and rolling and getting in smalls hits, hoping to avoid that one strike that kills him.
Tyrion just needs to roll between the dude's legs and yank the nutsack. Down goes big guy.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,758
3
76
I'm don't recall them going into any great detail on the legal small print of champions fighting other champions in trial by combat. I *believe* that the accused and the champion have to agree. The accused can't force someone to fight on his behalf against his will and the prosecution can't force the accused to use a patsy. So the accused would ask some person he trusted (like Tryion chose Jaime) and then ask another person if that person refused and so on down the line, then would be forced to do it himself if he could not find a volunteer. The crown would do the same although they likely have a much much much larger pool of potential champions to choose from.
I think you're right that they haven't put the details out there. It's a shame I finished law school before this show started. My particular school was in that mid-tier (read: shitty) range where it's likely some idiot is writing a law review article on comparative Seven Kingdoms law.

I know this has been discussed several times before but the more I think about this trial by combat thing the more I think it's a severe Deus Ex Machina case, i.e. lazy GRRM writing. He can basically do anything with it and it's a super convenient 'plot smoother'. But no, I'm not complaining that much. It's still fun to watch either way.
This isn't Wesley saving the ship again, though. Given the first trial by combat that Tyrion requested when he was getting railroaded, it'd be a bigger plot hole if he didn't request it again this time around in front of a different but equally corrupt court. It's been woven into the plot from early on, but this time around it doesn't smooth anything - win or lose, there are plot consequences for Tywin and Jaime that will remain. If anything, I'm almost questioning my own intelligence by not seeing the trial by combat coming - after the fact, it's an obvious conclusion that Tyrion should call for it.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
24
91
I think you're right that they haven't put the details out there. It's a shame I finished law school before this show started. My particular school was in that mid-tier (read: shitty) range where it's likely some idiot is writing a law review article on comparative Seven Kingdoms law.



This isn't Wesley saving the ship again, though. Given the first trial by combat that Tyrion requested when he was getting railroaded, it'd be a bigger plot hole if he didn't request it again this time around in front of a different but equally corrupt court. It's been woven into the plot from early on, but this time around it doesn't smooth anything - win or lose, there are plot consequences for Tywin and Jaime that will remain. If anything, I'm almost questioning my own intelligence by not seeing the trial by combat coming - after the fact, it's an obvious conclusion that Tyrion should call for it.
I was commenting about the fact the trial of combat thing even exists in the story world at all. It's such a convenient thing that as you said it, we should have seen it coming a mile away. Pretty much every single accused in the story world that is losing their trial would be dumb if they don't invoke it. I mean, what do they have to lose?
 

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