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Furor Over Baptist's 'Gay Baby' Article

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Originally posted by: skace
Originally posted by: Amused
Like I said, I don't know if I agree with the idea of "curing" it.

The only thing I don't agree with is that he thinks it's a genetic defect yet still thinks it is a sin. When did birth defects become sins?

If there was a fix, I would leave it up to parents to decide whether their children go through with it. The fix would obviously carry a risk. Some would go for it, some wouldn't, and I would consider it not my business.

I haven't read the whole thread, so someone else may have addressed this already.

It isn't sinful to be born with a genetic defect. The article mentions that it may be a genetics that cause the propensity towards being homosexual. The sin would be one taking action on those feelings. If you are Christian, then there are a ton of ways to sin, even as a heterosexual, having sex out of wedlock is a sin. For a homosexual, sex is always a sin, since you can not be married under God to the same sex. Homosexuality, the root of it, may or may not be genetic, but actually having sex with someone else of the same sex is most definitely a choice.
 
I believe that homosexuality is a choice because I believe the Bible, in full, is God's word. I don't hate homosexuals as people, but I absolutely despise and loath their lifestyle. Of course, since my opinion is politically incorrect, conflicts with modern science, and offends most people, I will be attacked by ad hominems, insulting my character, integrity, and intelligence.
 
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
I believe that homosexuality is a choice because I believe the Bible, in full, is God's word. I don't hate homosexuals as people, but I absolutely despise and loath their lifestyle. Of course, since my opinion is politically incorrect, conflicts with modern science, and offends most people, I will be attacked by ad hominems, insulting my character, integrity, and intelligence.

But why do you despise and loathe someone else's lifestyle? I don't understand the infatuation with other peoples' lives.
 
Originally posted by: Tegeril
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
I believe that homosexuality is a choice because I believe the Bible, in full, is God's word. I don't hate homosexuals as people, but I absolutely despise and loath their lifestyle. Of course, since my opinion is politically incorrect, conflicts with modern science, and offends most people, I will be attacked by ad hominems, insulting my character, integrity, and intelligence.

But why do you despise and loathe someone else's lifestyle? I don't understand the infatuation with other peoples' lives.

If you really think that, or need me to answer that question for you then I don't know what to say.
 
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: Tegeril
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
I believe that homosexuality is a choice because I believe the Bible, in full, is God's word. I don't hate homosexuals as people, but I absolutely despise and loath their lifestyle. Of course, since my opinion is politically incorrect, conflicts with modern science, and offends most people, I will be attacked by ad hominems, insulting my character, integrity, and intelligence.

But why do you despise and loathe someone else's lifestyle? I don't understand the infatuation with other peoples' lives.

If you really think that, or need me to answer that question for you then I don't know what to say.
Does not compute.
 
Originally posted by: Tegeril
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: Tegeril
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
I believe that homosexuality is a choice because I believe the Bible, in full, is God's word. I don't hate homosexuals as people, but I absolutely despise and loath their lifestyle. Of course, since my opinion is politically incorrect, conflicts with modern science, and offends most people, I will be attacked by ad hominems, insulting my character, integrity, and intelligence.

But why do you despise and loathe someone else's lifestyle? I don't understand the infatuation with other peoples' lives.

If you really think that, or need me to answer that question for you then I don't know what to say.
Does not compute.

 
Originally posted by: Tegeril
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: Tegeril
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
I believe that homosexuality is a choice because I believe the Bible, in full, is God's word. I don't hate homosexuals as people, but I absolutely despise and loath their lifestyle. Of course, since my opinion is politically incorrect, conflicts with modern science, and offends most people, I will be attacked by ad hominems, insulting my character, integrity, and intelligence.

But why do you despise and loathe someone else's lifestyle? I don't understand the infatuation with other peoples' lives.

If you really think that, or need me to answer that question for you then I don't know what to say.
Does not compute.

I'm sure when the idea of homosexuality comes to RapidSnail's mind, certain unappealing thoughts and images stand out.
But, you are not born despising and loathing. That is something you are taught, or choose to embrace. It's a decision he made based on what he was taught.

 
Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: Tegeril
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: Tegeril
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
I believe that homosexuality is a choice because I believe the Bible, in full, is God's word. I don't hate homosexuals as people, but I absolutely despise and loath their lifestyle. Of course, since my opinion is politically incorrect, conflicts with modern science, and offends most people, I will be attacked by ad hominems, insulting my character, integrity, and intelligence.

But why do you despise and loathe someone else's lifestyle? I don't understand the infatuation with other peoples' lives.

If you really think that, or need me to answer that question for you then I don't know what to say.
Does not compute.

I'm sure when the idea of homosexuality comes to RapidSnail's mind, certain unappealing thoughts and images stand out.
But, you are not born despising and loathing. That is something you are taught, or choose to embrace. It's a decision he made based on what he was taught.

You're misunderstanding. I don't dwell on the thoughts of homosexual practices at all, I just don't like what I believe to be a perversion, men with men. Remember, it's all based on the Bible, so if you don't believe it, I'm considered a bigot. I'm not going to go to rallies and boycott gay people, but I will not support them when it comes time to make a decision regarding those types of issues because I believe it is wrong. I don't have anything against you as people, but I am strongly repulsed by your lifestyle [men with men]. My stance is that of the "hate the sin, love the sinner" mentality.
 
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: Tegeril
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: Tegeril
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
I believe that homosexuality is a choice because I believe the Bible, in full, is God's word. I don't hate homosexuals as people, but I absolutely despise and loath their lifestyle. Of course, since my opinion is politically incorrect, conflicts with modern science, and offends most people, I will be attacked by ad hominems, insulting my character, integrity, and intelligence.

But why do you despise and loathe someone else's lifestyle? I don't understand the infatuation with other peoples' lives.

If you really think that, or need me to answer that question for you then I don't know what to say.
Does not compute.

I'm sure when the idea of homosexuality comes to RapidSnail's mind, certain unappealing thoughts and images stand out.
But, you are not born despising and loathing. That is something you are taught, or choose to embrace. It's a decision he made based on what he was taught.

You're misunderstanding. I don't dwell on the thoughts of homosexual practices at all, I just don't like what I believe to be a perversion, men with men. Remember, it's all based on the Bible, so if you don't believe it, I'm considered a bigot. I'm not going to go to rallies and boycott gay people, but I will not support them when it comes time to make a decision regarding those types of issues because I believe it is wrong. I don't have anything against you as people, but I am strongly repulsed by your lifestyle [men with men]. My stance is that of the "hate the sin, love the sinner" mentality.

I am pretty good at understanding the views of other people, but I cannot for the life of me understand why "because it's in the bible" should ever be an answer to a personal question.

I understand what you are. You are repulsed. I understand what you believe. You believe it's a perversion.
I just want to understand why.
If it's all based on the bible, it's all based on choice. You are choosing to believe the bible and accept its practices.

So in essence, you are choosing to accept that homosexuality is a sin to be accepted into heaven?



 
People like that have no answers to your questions Z, I've tried for years to get the same question answered from a great many more men.
 
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
--big snip--
You're misunderstanding. I don't dwell on the thoughts of homosexual practices at all, I just don't like what I believe to be a perversion, men with men. Remember, it's all based on the Bible, so if you don't believe it, I'm considered a bigot. I'm not going to go to rallies and boycott gay people, but I will not support them when it comes time to make a decision regarding those types of issues because I believe it is wrong. I don't have anything against you as people, but I am strongly repulsed by your lifestyle [men with men]. My stance is that of the "hate the sin, love the sinner" mentality.
But women with women is just fine, right? 😉

 

I am pretty good at understanding the views of other people, but I cannot for the life of me understand why "because it's in the bible" should ever be an answer to a personal question.

I understand what you are. You are repulsed. I understand what you believe. You believe it's a perversion.
I just want to understand why.
If it's all based on the bible, it's all based on choice. You are choosing to believe the bible and accept its practices.

So in essence, you are choosing to accept that homosexuality is a sin to be accepted into heaven?




[/quote]

I am only recently beginning to study the Bible, so maybe I am not correct in my understanding so far but:

The Bible isn't about choice on what to believe is a sin or not a sin. Nor is it about believing certain acts are sins in order to get to heaven.

The Bible is meant to convey the Word, and there is no choice attributed to that. If one believes in the Bible, and the Word, he doesn't choose to believe homosexuality is a sin, he accepts it as fact. Yes he may choose to believe in the Bible, and the Word, or choose not to. This is where the only choice comes in.

You choose to believe or not to believe. If you do not believe then it does not matter what is written. You may agree with parts of the Bible, but not believe in God, for instance you may believe murdering someone is a bad thing. The bible states that murder is a sin. In the same instance you can believe that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, but they Bible states that it is a sin. None of it really matters if you do not believe.

If you do believe however, and you feel that there is nothing wrong with an act that the Bible states is a sin, then your beliefs go against what is outlined in your religion. That is between you and your religion/God etc.

As for snail's personal feelings, he is allowed that. He can have his feelings irregardless of religion. But he is a believer in Christianity, and believes that what the Bible states as a perversion, and a sin, really is such. His beliefs coincide with his religious beliefs. He isn't coming across as hateful from what I have saw.

Same for myself, I hate the idea of men with men, I count myself homophobic. But I do not hate people, just the practice. If the images are not thrown at me, I do not even think about it. I can laugh when I watch a comedy with gay men in them. That doesn't bother me.

I believe the practice is a perversion of nature. Sexual function exists for continuation of our species at the lowest level. That can not happen from a same sex union. We are blessed, and cursed in that we receive pleasure from it. Blessed because we can enjoy it with people we love, and cursed because it is used as a tool for manipulation, perversion (molestation, rape, etc). This doesn't mean though that I am hateful towards people, or treat those that follow that lifestyle with disrespect.
 
Originally posted by: MasonLuke
Originally posted by: MBrown
Homosexuality is a choice /thread.


Nobody chooses to be a homosexual;you are born homosexual. The same people that says homosexuality is a choice are the same ones saying the plane will fly. BAI below average intelligence.

I'm so sick of comments like these. The only thing you don't have a choice on is what types of impulses you have as a person initially. You damn well have a choice when it comes to acting on them.

I'll tell you right now I don't care one bit if people want to be homosexual or not. I don't agree with it, but it's their life, not mine. But they have as much choice on it as anyone else suffering from any other form of sexual desire or tendency. There is absolutely no difference between someone who is gay and someone with an over-active sex drive. Are you going to condone someone with an over-active sex drive committing adultery or screwing anything that moves? He can't help it right? He has no choice?

When I see any one of you ever start using the same argument to defend convicted sex felons and child molesters, then you might have a leg to stand on. Until then, just shut up. Any one who really doesn't want to act on homosexual tendencies has that ability.
 
Originally posted by: glutenberg
Didn't Joseph Smith receive visions of Jesus Christ and isn't his Book of Momonism based off what Jesus had told him. So, by thecoolnessrune's standard, wouldn't Mormonism be the latest and greatest trend for Christians to believe? How often are secondary testimonials actually accurate? Even a basic game like telephone shows how accurate people are when passing on messages. Would everyone believe me if I told them that I spoke to Jesus last night and he told me not to believe what Paul wrote?

No, the Book of Mormon is not based off visions Joseph had. If you want to discuss it more, use private messages.
 
Originally posted by: engineereeyore

I'm so sick of comments like these. The only thing you don't have a choice on is what types of impulses you have as a person initially. You damn well have a choice when it comes to acting on them.

I'll tell you right now I don't care one bit if people want to be homosexual or not. I don't agree with it, but it's their life, not mine. But they have as much choice on it as anyone else suffering from any other form of sexual desire or tendency. There is absolutely no difference between someone who is gay and someone with an over-active sex drive. Are you going to condone someone with an over-active sex drive committing adultery or screwing anything that moves? He can't help it right? He has no choice?

When I see any one of you ever start using the same argument to defend convicted sex felons and child molesters, then you might have a leg to stand on. Until then, just shut up. Any one who really doesn't want to act on homosexual tendencies has that ability.

QFT

 
Originally posted by: engineereeyore

I'm so sick of comments like these. The only thing you don't have a choice on is what types of impulses you have as a person initially. You damn well have a choice when it comes to acting on them.

I'll tell you right now I don't care one bit if people want to be homosexual or not. I don't agree with it, but it's their life, not mine. But they have as much choice on it as anyone else suffering from any other form of sexual desire or tendency. There is absolutely no difference between someone who is gay and someone with an over-active sex drive. Are you going to condone someone with an over-active sex drive committing adultery or screwing anything that moves? He can't help it right? He has no choice?

When I see any one of you ever start using the same argument to defend convicted sex felons and child molesters, then you might have a leg to stand on. Until then, just shut up. Any one who really doesn't want to act on homosexual tendencies has that ability.

Try living a life in which YOU are frowned upon for your perfectly natural attractions.

Would you think living a life of celibacy is acceptable because small minded little bigots thought your attractions were "wrong?"

I love how idiots think it's just fine to demand and expect gays to live with no sex or intimacy with their preferred consenting adult partner simply because they "don't agree with it."

Try turning the tables and ask yourself what your answer to that would be.

I find your attraction to women disgusting and I think you should control it by never having sex with a woman. :roll:
 
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: MasonLuke
Originally posted by: MBrown
Homosexuality is a choice /thread.


Nobody chooses to be a homosexual;you are born homosexual. The same people that says homosexuality is a choice are the same ones saying the plane will fly. BAI below average intelligence.

how do you own yourself so badly?

😕

 
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: MasonLuke
Originally posted by: MBrown
Homosexuality is a choice /thread.


Nobody chooses to be a homosexual;you are born homosexual. The same people that says homosexuality is a choice are the same ones saying the plane will fly. BAI below average intelligence.

I'm so sick of comments like these. The only thing you don't have a choice on is what types of impulses you have as a person initially. You damn well have a choice when it comes to acting on them.

I'll tell you right now I don't care one bit if people want to be homosexual or not. I don't agree with it, but it's their life, not mine. But they have as much choice on it as anyone else suffering from any other form of sexual desire or tendency. There is absolutely no difference between someone who is gay and someone with an over-active sex drive. Are you going to condone someone with an over-active sex drive committing adultery or screwing anything that moves? He can't help it right? He has no choice?

When I see any one of you ever start using the same argument to defend convicted sex felons and child molesters, then you might have a leg to stand on. Until then, just shut up. Any one who really doesn't want to act on homosexual tendencies has that ability.


There's a huge difference. Adultry or promiscuous sex hurt other people. Two gay people acting on the way they're wired hurts no one. It's a victimless act. What if I told you that you weren't allowed to have sex with a woman because it was wrong? You're splitting hairs over venacular.. of course you make the final choice, but you're not given a choice on the way you feel inside.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Any one who really doesn't want to act on homosexual tendencies has that ability.

Try living a life in which YOU are frowned upon for your perfectly natural attractions.

Would you think living a life of celibacy is acceptable because small minded little bigots thought your attractions were "wrong?"

I love how idiots think it's just fine to demand and expect gays to live with no sex or intimacy with their preferred consenting adult partner simply because they "don't agree with it."

Try turning the tables and ask yourself what your answer to that would be.

I find your attraction to women disgusting and I think you should control it by never having sex with a woman. :roll:


I would like to see a response to this question. The world has flipped and your natural attraction to women is now deemed disgusting. Are you gonna fight/stop following your attraction and stop having sex with women?
 
Originally posted by: Bird222
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Any one who really doesn't want to act on homosexual tendencies has that ability.

Try living a life in which YOU are frowned upon for your perfectly natural attractions.

Would you think living a life of celibacy is acceptable because small minded little bigots thought your attractions were "wrong?"

I love how idiots think it's just fine to demand and expect gays to live with no sex or intimacy with their preferred consenting adult partner simply because they "don't agree with it."

Try turning the tables and ask yourself what your answer to that would be.

I find your attraction to women disgusting and I think you should control it by never having sex with a woman. :roll:


I would like to see a response to this question. The world has flipped and your natural attraction to women is now deemed disgusting. Are you gonna fight/stop following your attraction and stop having sex with women?

Are you flipping the entire world, or just part of it?

Is the natural reproductive process of mammals through same sex union? Female, and female, and male and male? Can two males produce either a male or a female, or only their own? Because that would be more than a world flip.

So in our flipped world, we have females and males, and they are not attracted to each other sexually. Humans would not reproduce. (Remember in history, people didn't immediately connect sex with pregnancy). Everyone is running around having sex male to male, and female to female, and dieing. Humanity doesn't survive.
 
Originally posted by: Platypus
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: MasonLuke
Originally posted by: MBrown
Homosexuality is a choice /thread.


Nobody chooses to be a homosexual;you are born homosexual. The same people that says homosexuality is a choice are the same ones saying the plane will fly. BAI below average intelligence.

I'm so sick of comments like these. The only thing you don't have a choice on is what types of impulses you have as a person initially. You damn well have a choice when it comes to acting on them.

I'll tell you right now I don't care one bit if people want to be homosexual or not. I don't agree with it, but it's their life, not mine. But they have as much choice on it as anyone else suffering from any other form of sexual desire or tendency. There is absolutely no difference between someone who is gay and someone with an over-active sex drive. Are you going to condone someone with an over-active sex drive committing adultery or screwing anything that moves? He can't help it right? He has no choice?

When I see any one of you ever start using the same argument to defend convicted sex felons and child molesters, then you might have a leg to stand on. Until then, just shut up. Any one who really doesn't want to act on homosexual tendencies has that ability.


There's a huge difference. Adultry or promiscuous sex hurt other people. Two gay people acting on the way they're wired hurts no one. It's a victimless act. What if I told you that you weren't allowed to have sex with a woman because it was wrong? You're splitting hairs over venacular.. of course you make the final choice, but you're not given a choice on the way you feel inside.

Oh bull crap. Family members are hurt, the person is hurt, the opportunity to have children naturally is hurt. Don't even try that lame excuse. People are hurt in the same way.

Should parents and other family members be hurt by someone being gay? Well hell, should the wife be hurt that her husband cheated on her? What's the difference. There's none. No difference at all.

Perhaps I am only splitting hairs, but the fact remains. Everyone has a choice. So the phrase "I don't have a choice" is flat out wrong.
 
Originally posted by: Amused

Try living a life in which YOU are frowned upon for your perfectly natural attractions.

What are you talking about? Adultery is frowned upon and is the result of a natural attraction between a man and a woman. That makes no sense.

Would you think living a life of celibacy is acceptable because small minded little bigots thought your attractions were "wrong?"

I love how idiots think it's just fine to demand and expect gays to live with no sex or intimacy with their preferred consenting adult partner simply because they "don't agree with it."

That has nothing to do with what I said. I made no such claim, nor would I. My claim is based only upon the idea of "I have no choice". It has no bearing on whether such activities are correct or proper. As I said, I don't agree with it, but what two consenting adults do in their bedroom is between them. I don't agree with S&M either, but it's the same thing.

Try turning the tables and ask yourself what your answer to that would be.

I find your attraction to women disgusting and I think you should control it by never having sex with a woman. :roll:

Again, I made no claim in that area. Please don't try putting words in my mouth.
 
It must be wonderful to be born with all these "natural" tendencies that fit in with societal beliefs, that way you can take the easy way out and just preach against those that you believe are unnatural.

Also, why do people believe that the Bible is actually the word of God? Has there been any significant proof they aren't the words of ancient politicians? Do you think the Bible is somehow the only infallible text?
 
Originally posted by: Amused
Try living a life in which YOU are frowned upon for your perfectly natural attractions.

Homosexuals should only be frowned on for the choice they made, but I don't like it when people express pure hatred for them...

There are the small minded bigots out there, though. As a Christian I believe it is a sin and that their desires are incorrect in the eyes of God, but I am not going to shun them from society. They should have the same rights every other person has.
 
Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Originally posted by: Amused
Try living a life in which YOU are frowned upon for your perfectly natural attractions.

Homosexuals should only be frowned on for the choice they made, but I don't like it when people express pure hatred for them...

There are the small minded bigots out there, though. As a Christian I believe it is a sin and that their desires are incorrect in the eyes of God, but I am not going to shun them from society. They should have the same rights every other person has.

Do you eat junk food, smoke, drink, not exercise enough, not get enough rest, stress out too much, etc?
 
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