Furor Over Baptist's 'Gay Baby' Article

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thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,671
580
126
Originally posted by: Garth
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Originally posted by: Garth
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Originally posted by: Garth
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Originally posted by: Citrix

show me where Jesus says that being gay is a sin.

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
That's Moses, n00b.

BTW http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section05.html

I dont see your point.. Several other men had part in writing the Bible as well... Your point is? Moses also wrote The Decalogue from God as well.

1.) Citrix asked for a citation of Jesus' words.
2.) You responded with a citation of Moses' words.
3.) You fail.

1.) See above.
2.) Go directly to 3.

Unfortunately for you, your contention is plainly laughable because it assumes a number of things certainly not granted by myself nor likely Citrix, Amused, nor many others. All you've succeeded in doing is making yourself look silly.

What do you matter? :confused: You dont have anything to do with the acceptance of the books of God's Word. I dont see any point in trying to satisfy your own notions when I'm pulling from the source. It's all written there in the Book. Pick it up and read it. And to amused, I personally use the KJV, while substituting for Hebrew with what I do know.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Originally posted by: Garth

Unfortunately for you, your contention is plainly laughable because it assumes a number of things certainly not granted by myself nor likely Citrix, Amused, nor many others. All you've succeeded in doing is making yourself look silly.

What do you matter? :confused: You dont have anything to do with the acceptance of the books of God's Word.
I think I have quite a bit to say about whether or not I accept certain texts to be attributed to God's authorship or not. I'm not like you... I make up *MY OWN* mind. :roll:

I dont see any point in trying to satisfy your own notions when I'm pulling from the source. It's all written there in the Book.
So what if it's written in a book (or "the Book")? Lots of things are written in books and that doesn't make them all automatically true.

Pick it up and read it.
You don't think I have? Could you even venture a response to the link I supplied in rebuttal to the passage from Leviticus you cited?


 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,671
580
126
Originally posted by: Garth
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Originally posted by: Garth

Unfortunately for you, your contention is plainly laughable because it assumes a number of things certainly not granted by myself nor likely Citrix, Amused, nor many others. All you've succeeded in doing is making yourself look silly.

What do you matter? :confused: You dont have anything to do with the acceptance of the books of God's Word.
I think I have quite a bit to say about whether or not I accept certain texts to be attributed to God's authorship or not. I'm not like you... I make up *MY OWN* mind. :roll:

I dont see any point in trying to satisfy your own notions when I'm pulling from the source. It's all written there in the Book.
So what if it's written in a book (or "the Book")? Lots of things are written in books and that doesn't make them all automatically true.

Pick it up and read it.
You don't think I have? Could you even venture a response to the link I supplied in rebuttal to the passage from Leviticus you cited?

1. If you desire to rebel against the Word, then you look at it as an enemy to disprove or slander, that's your choice, I'll move on to people who are a bit more sensible and not so belligerent

2. The Word is God, if you disbelieve one part you break down the entire point of the faith and the book. Surely your intelligent enough to see that. You dont pick your points, its either all true or all doubted.

3. rebuttal. Quit being so foolish as to think your site is the only theory floating around.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: aidanjm

there is ample evidence that the genes coding for homosexuality in males also tend to confer greater fertility in women. Women with gay male relatives - uncles, etc. - have more babies than women with no gay men in the family. Thus genes coding for homosexuality in men can remain in circulation because they provides some evolutionary advantage (i.e., greater fertility leading to higher reproductive success) under some circumstances (e.g., when they are expressed in women).


You could also look at it another way- maybe some families' bloodlines just have high levels of estrogen, making the women more fertile and the men more feminine.

"high levels" of estrogen don't make women more fertile, nor do high levels of estrogen (in the womb prior to his birth, or circulating in an adult man's blood stream) increase the chances a male will be homosexual.
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
I'm all for gay rights and, given the option, I would definately consider doing this for my son.

I don't know where I stand on this. I guess if there was any risk to the baby I'd probably error on the side of caution and not have it done though. I have a son already (he's 5) and if he were gay I'd accept that. I'll love him no matter what.

Of course this is a completely moot point anyway since it isn't possible to determine one's sexual preference in the womb or to change it.

This is just flame bait as usual...

Of course I agree with your remark on safety being a foremost stipulation, and no doubt I would love and support my son regardless of his eventual sexual persuasion. However, I really would like to be a grandfather :)
 

belchworld

Junior Member
Aug 16, 2002
10
0
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
what a moron. i would love to ask him when was the last time he ate pork or shellfish. after all in the eyes of God eating those things are just as unclean as gay sex.

funny how they pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. :disgust:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Read Leviticus 11 and you will find the dietary laws.
"These are the instructions on animals, birds, fish, and creatures that crawl on the ground. You have to distinguish between the ritually unclean and the clean, between living creatures that can be eaten and those that cannot be eaten."

There is a stark difference between a moral law that is punishable by death and a ceremonial law that makes you "unclean" for 1 day. (punishment is that you cannot go to the temple when you are "unclean")
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Originally posted by: Citrix
what a moron. i would love to ask him when was the last time he ate pork or shellfish. after all in the eyes of God eating those things are just as unclean as gay sex.

funny how they pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. :disgust:

Interesting, because in the words of Jesus himself:

Matthew 15:

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[e] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

With this series of statements Jesus declared that the dietary restrictions of Israel did not apply to Christians. Yet another common flamebait argument with no basis in scripture.

show me where Jesus says that being gay is a sin.

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

hahahah, pathetic. I rest my case.

do you also put your wife out in the barn and wash and wipe down everything in the house too?

"When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening."

Leviticus 15:19-23
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I love how everyone overlooks the fact that this is complete flamebait. Fact is we cannot determine the sexual orientation of a child in the womb and we cannot alter it so this is all one big fvcking moot point.

\end thread

Well, I guess reality is no fun and pointless debating is....:roll:

I now return you to your bickering and stupid bible quotes.

Flame on knaves...

your mercy is legendary sire.

 

belchworld

Junior Member
Aug 16, 2002
10
0
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Originally posted by: Citrix
what a moron. i would love to ask him when was the last time he ate pork or shellfish. after all in the eyes of God eating those things are just as unclean as gay sex.

funny how they pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. :disgust:

Interesting, because in the words of Jesus himself:

Matthew 15:

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[e] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

With this series of statements Jesus declared that the dietary restrictions of Israel did not apply to Christians. Yet another common flamebait argument with no basis in scripture.

show me where Jesus says that being gay is a sin.

Jesus never said a lot of things...that doesn't make them right.

If you want a New Testament reference, Paul wrote in Romans 1:26,27 about homosexuality.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: belchworld
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Originally posted by: Citrix
what a moron. i would love to ask him when was the last time he ate pork or shellfish. after all in the eyes of God eating those things are just as unclean as gay sex.

funny how they pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. :disgust:

Interesting, because in the words of Jesus himself:

Matthew 15:

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[e] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

With this series of statements Jesus declared that the dietary restrictions of Israel did not apply to Christians. Yet another common flamebait argument with no basis in scripture.

show me where Jesus says that being gay is a sin.

Jesus never said a lot of things...that doesn't make them right.

If you want a New Testament reference, Paul wrote in Romans 1:26,27 about homosexuality.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Christianity should be renamed "Paulism." Most of what you follow was written by him anyhow... a man who never met Jesus... but claimed he chatted with his ghost. :roll:
 

LtPage1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2004
6,311
2
0
Wow. I read the first 6 or 7 posts, and I've come to the conclusion that I hate 9/10s of you people. I guess I shouldn't be this shocked at the incredible bigotry that rules our society.
 

Luthien

Golden Member
Feb 1, 2004
1,721
0
0
Likely a Nature (genetics) versus Nurture (environment) synergy. I would posit that homosexuality might even be part of the genetic make up of animals in general retained as a mechanism to control over population.
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
Originally posted by: belchworld
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Originally posted by: Citrix
what a moron. i would love to ask him when was the last time he ate pork or shellfish. after all in the eyes of God eating those things are just as unclean as gay sex.

funny how they pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. :disgust:

Interesting, because in the words of Jesus himself:

Matthew 15:

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[e] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

With this series of statements Jesus declared that the dietary restrictions of Israel did not apply to Christians. Yet another common flamebait argument with no basis in scripture.

show me where Jesus says that being gay is a sin.

Jesus never said a lot of things...that doesn't make them right.

If you want a New Testament reference, Paul wrote in Romans 1:26,27 about homosexuality.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

If Jesus didn't give you guidance on things you felt he should have, then from what divine prophet did you get your guidance from? Reverend Haggard? It's called CHRISTianity, afterall. Right?
 

angminas

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2006
3,331
26
91
Originally posted by: Citrix

again, tell me where Jesus said being gay is a sin. SHOW ME!!!!

i dont understand your line of thinking. you said that being born gay (if its possible) is not a sin, but living gay is. hummm. so a person who is born gay its ok just as long as they dont do anything with the same sex. that pretty f*cked up man. how would you like it that since you were born Hetrosexual and you are very much attracted to women but you cant be with a woman because to do so is a sin, you have to be with men.

Yes people are born gay, and i mean true homosexuals not the people who claim to be BIsexual and are just satisfying their couriosity.

Jesus quoted from and validated the Old Testament dozens of times.

3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." 4 But He answered and said, "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4. The Law such as in the Leviticus quote about homosexuality was told from God directly to Moses. It was words that proceeded from the mouth of God, and Jesus here says men are to live by such. If one doesn't think the Bible is God's word, there's not much point in arguing about how it all fits together. It's like putting together a puzzle with a picture of an elephant when you've never seen an elephant and refuse to believe they exist, then complaining that the pieces aren't making any recognizable picture.

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matthew 5. Some parts of the OT have been FULFILLED, but none of it has been DESTROYED. The law against homosexual behavior is still binding. If it were not, some of my later quotes would be ridiculous and doctrinally false.

In Acts 9, Jesus appears to Saul (later renamed Paul) and tells Saul that he will be told what he must do. (As opposed to, just write whatever you want, and I'll let it slide, whether it's correct or not.) In this chapter Jesus says Saul is "a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel." Later this same Paul, being specifically chosen and guided by Jesus, wrote...

"27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." Romans 1. There's more in Romans on the subject.

"9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. " 1Cor6. This is not referring to people who are born a certain way and have no choice or control- it's talking about people who know how to behave properly but still choose to do wrong. All homosexual activity is fornication.

"16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2Tim3. At the time Paul wrote this, the New Testament did not exist as such. He clearly says that you must obey the Old Testament to be a man of God. This was in the final letter he wrote, so it's not like he changed his mind later.

This is just a smattering of quotes...there's a lot more. Of course, a verse or two at a time are just that. It is possible to take them out of context and make them look like something they're not. And some people just can't understand the Bible at all.

I have been thankful many times that I was not born homosexual. I have enough problems as it is. I empathize with those who are put in that unenviable position. But I was given things that were wrong or difficult that I needed to overcome, and I have worked hard on them and made progress. This process and my many mistakes have taught me that it's not ok to just do what comes naturally, because when we act naturally, we hurt people. Do people born or raised with bad tempers get to yell and scream (or worse) just because it's difficult and unnatural for them to choose different behavior? Do addictive personalities get a free pass on alcoholism, since they have to completely break away from something they enjoy in order to control the situation? Children are born selfish and unable to understand the feelings of others...should we let them grow up like that so they can be "free" to worship themselves at the expense of others? Are we bigots, bad parents, small minded, control freaks, or crazy Nazi doctors if we teach our children to act how they ought instead of how they want?

NO. What's wrong is wrong, regardless of whether it's easy to change or whether we like it. God says clearly that homosexual behavior is a sin, and since He created the universe, He gets to make the rules. There are many good reasons besides.

Not all trials and difficulties are from God, but He does send some things to us to give us the opportunity to overcome who we used to be.

"2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing." James 1:2-4.

"3 The refining pot is for silver and the furnace for gold, But the Lord tests the hearts."
Proverbs 17:3.

We are not here to do whatever we feel like. Jesus didn't die horribly so we could lust, murder, envy, hate, or fornicate at will, as long as we say we're sorry every once in a while. He died so that we could have a chance to see what happens in a world where people live by their own laws, under the influence of Satan rather than God. We are here to learn to be more like Jesus...and Jesus obeys the word of the Lord.

So must any Christian.
 

leftyman

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2000
7,073
3
81
wow! look at all the cool bible stuff being spouted.:D

Almost makes be feel bad for not believing in God.

Almost.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: angminas
Jesus quoted from and validated the Old Testament dozens of times...

there is no terribly convincing evidence that Jesus was a real person, let alone that he was the son of a god or gods. all we have are a bunch of myths. given this, your quoting of xian scripture - as if it is somehow relevant to the moral questions of the present day - defies all logic.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: angminas
Originally posted by: Citrix

again, tell me where Jesus said being gay is a sin. SHOW ME!!!!

i dont understand your line of thinking. you said that being born gay (if its possible) is not a sin, but living gay is. hummm. so a person who is born gay its ok just as long as they dont do anything with the same sex. that pretty f*cked up man. how would you like it that since you were born Hetrosexual and you are very much attracted to women but you cant be with a woman because to do so is a sin, you have to be with men.

Yes people are born gay, and i mean true homosexuals not the people who claim to be BIsexual and are just satisfying their couriosity.

Jesus quoted from and validated the Old Testament dozens of times.

3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." 4 But He answered and said, "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4. The Law such as in the Leviticus quote about homosexuality was told from God directly to Moses. It was words that proceeded from the mouth of God, and Jesus here says men are to live by such. If one doesn't think the Bible is God's word, there's not much point in arguing about how it all fits together. It's like putting together a puzzle with a picture of an elephant when you've never seen an elephant and refuse to believe they exist, then complaining that the pieces aren't making any recognizable picture.

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matthew 5. Some parts of the OT have been FULFILLED, but none of it has been DESTROYED. The law against homosexual behavior is still binding. If it were not, some of my later quotes would be ridiculous and doctrinally false.

In Acts 9, Jesus appears to Saul (later renamed Paul) and tells Saul that he will be told what he must do. (As opposed to, just write whatever you want, and I'll let it slide, whether it's correct or not.) In this chapter Jesus says Saul is "a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel." Later this same Paul, being specifically chosen and guided by Jesus, wrote...

"27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." Romans 1. There's more in Romans on the subject.

"9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. " 1Cor6. This is not referring to people who are born a certain way and have no choice or control- it's talking about people who know how to behave properly but still choose to do wrong. All homosexual activity is fornication.

"16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2Tim3. At the time Paul wrote this, the New Testament did not exist as such. He clearly says that you must obey the Old Testament to be a man of God. This was in the final letter he wrote, so it's not like he changed his mind later.

This is just a smattering of quotes...there's a lot more. Of course, a verse or two at a time are just that. It is possible to take them out of context and make them look like something they're not. And some people just can't understand the Bible at all.

I have been thankful many times that I was not born homosexual. I have enough problems as it is. I empathize with those who are put in that unenviable position. But I was given things that were wrong or difficult that I needed to overcome, and I have worked hard on them and made progress. This process and my many mistakes have taught me that it's not ok to just do what comes naturally, because when we act naturally, we hurt people. Do people born or raised with bad tempers get to yell and scream (or worse) just because it's difficult and unnatural for them to choose different behavior? Do addictive personalities get a free pass on alcoholism, since they have to completely break away from something they enjoy in order to control the situation? Children are born selfish and unable to understand the feelings of others...should we let them grow up like that so they can be "free" to worship themselves at the expense of others? Are we bigots, bad parents, small minded, control freaks, or crazy Nazi doctors if we teach our children to act how they ought instead of how they want?

NO. What's wrong is wrong, regardless of whether it's easy to change or whether we like it. God says clearly that homosexual behavior is a sin, and since He created the universe, He gets to make the rules. There are many good reasons besides.

Not all trials and difficulties are from God, but He does send some things to us to give us the opportunity to overcome who we used to be.

"2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing." James 1:2-4.

"3 The refining pot is for silver and the furnace for gold, But the Lord tests the hearts."
Proverbs 17:3.

We are not here to do whatever we feel like. Jesus didn't die horribly so we could lust, murder, envy, hate, or fornicate at will, as long as we say we're sorry every once in a while. He died so that we could have a chance to see what happens in a world where people live by their own laws, under the influence of Satan rather than God. We are here to learn to be more like Jesus...and Jesus obeys the word of the Lord.

So must any Christian.

Gee, all Paul. All the hateful, return to old testament bullsh!t comes from Paul. A man who never met Jesus, but talked to his ghost.

I agree with Thomas Jefferson when it comes to Paul:

Of Paul he said: "Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great Coryrpheus, the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

Christians follow Paul, not Jesus. Nine times out of ten when you hear a Christian reference the NT, it will be Paul. Why? Because Paul gives the NT it's hate. It's bitterness, and it's darkness. If Christians had only Jesus, they couldn't find justification for being judgmental little pricks.

Christianity should be called Paulism. This is why so many refer to it as Pauline Christianity.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,671
580
126
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: angminas
Originally posted by: Citrix

again, tell me where Jesus said being gay is a sin. SHOW ME!!!!

i dont understand your line of thinking. you said that being born gay (if its possible) is not a sin, but living gay is. hummm. so a person who is born gay its ok just as long as they dont do anything with the same sex. that pretty f*cked up man. how would you like it that since you were born Hetrosexual and you are very much attracted to women but you cant be with a woman because to do so is a sin, you have to be with men.

Yes people are born gay, and i mean true homosexuals not the people who claim to be BIsexual and are just satisfying their couriosity.

Jesus quoted from and validated the Old Testament dozens of times.

3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." 4 But He answered and said, "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4. The Law such as in the Leviticus quote about homosexuality was told from God directly to Moses. It was words that proceeded from the mouth of God, and Jesus here says men are to live by such. If one doesn't think the Bible is God's word, there's not much point in arguing about how it all fits together. It's like putting together a puzzle with a picture of an elephant when you've never seen an elephant and refuse to believe they exist, then complaining that the pieces aren't making any recognizable picture.

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matthew 5. Some parts of the OT have been FULFILLED, but none of it has been DESTROYED. The law against homosexual behavior is still binding. If it were not, some of my later quotes would be ridiculous and doctrinally false.

In Acts 9, Jesus appears to Saul (later renamed Paul) and tells Saul that he will be told what he must do. (As opposed to, just write whatever you want, and I'll let it slide, whether it's correct or not.) In this chapter Jesus says Saul is "a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel." Later this same Paul, being specifically chosen and guided by Jesus, wrote...

"27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." Romans 1. There's more in Romans on the subject.

"9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. " 1Cor6. This is not referring to people who are born a certain way and have no choice or control- it's talking about people who know how to behave properly but still choose to do wrong. All homosexual activity is fornication.

"16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2Tim3. At the time Paul wrote this, the New Testament did not exist as such. He clearly says that you must obey the Old Testament to be a man of God. This was in the final letter he wrote, so it's not like he changed his mind later.

This is just a smattering of quotes...there's a lot more. Of course, a verse or two at a time are just that. It is possible to take them out of context and make them look like something they're not. And some people just can't understand the Bible at all.

I have been thankful many times that I was not born homosexual. I have enough problems as it is. I empathize with those who are put in that unenviable position. But I was given things that were wrong or difficult that I needed to overcome, and I have worked hard on them and made progress. This process and my many mistakes have taught me that it's not ok to just do what comes naturally, because when we act naturally, we hurt people. Do people born or raised with bad tempers get to yell and scream (or worse) just because it's difficult and unnatural for them to choose different behavior? Do addictive personalities get a free pass on alcoholism, since they have to completely break away from something they enjoy in order to control the situation? Children are born selfish and unable to understand the feelings of others...should we let them grow up like that so they can be "free" to worship themselves at the expense of others? Are we bigots, bad parents, small minded, control freaks, or crazy Nazi doctors if we teach our children to act how they ought instead of how they want?

NO. What's wrong is wrong, regardless of whether it's easy to change or whether we like it. God says clearly that homosexual behavior is a sin, and since He created the universe, He gets to make the rules. There are many good reasons besides.

Not all trials and difficulties are from God, but He does send some things to us to give us the opportunity to overcome who we used to be.

"2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing." James 1:2-4.

"3 The refining pot is for silver and the furnace for gold, But the Lord tests the hearts."
Proverbs 17:3.

We are not here to do whatever we feel like. Jesus didn't die horribly so we could lust, murder, envy, hate, or fornicate at will, as long as we say we're sorry every once in a while. He died so that we could have a chance to see what happens in a world where people live by their own laws, under the influence of Satan rather than God. We are here to learn to be more like Jesus...and Jesus obeys the word of the Lord.

So must any Christian.

Gee, all Paul. All the hateful, return to old testament bullsh!t comes from Paul. A man who never met Jesus, but talked to his ghost.

I agree with Thomas Jefferson when it comes to Paul:

Of Paul he said: "Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great Coryrpheus, the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

Christians follow Paul, not Jesus. Nine times out of ten when you hear a Christian reference the NT, it will be Paul. Why? Because Paul gives the NT it's hate. It's bitterness, and it's darkness. If Christians had only Jesus, they couldn't find justification for being judgmental little pricks.

Christianity should be called Paulism. This is why so many refer to it as Pauline Christianity.

2 Timothy 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Any part can be used. All the Bible is correct. So quit being such a moron about it. If you think parts of the Bible are false, then you have no business using it for anything.
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Originally posted by: Citrix
what a moron. i would love to ask him when was the last time he ate pork or shellfish. after all in the eyes of God eating those things are just as unclean as gay sex.

funny how they pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. :disgust:

Interesting, because in the words of Jesus himself:

Matthew 15:

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[e] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

With this series of statements Jesus declared that the dietary restrictions of Israel did not apply to Christians. Yet another common flamebait argument with no basis in scripture.

show me where Jesus says that being gay is a sin.

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

hahahah, pathetic. I rest my case.

do you also put your wife out in the barn and wash and wipe down everything in the house too?

"When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening."

Leviticus 15:19-23

*crickets*
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,997
37,170
136
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Originally posted by: Citrix
what a moron. i would love to ask him when was the last time he ate pork or shellfish. after all in the eyes of God eating those things are just as unclean as gay sex.

funny how they pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. :disgust:

Interesting, because in the words of Jesus himself:

Matthew 15:

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[e] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

With this series of statements Jesus declared that the dietary restrictions of Israel did not apply to Christians. Yet another common flamebait argument with no basis in scripture.

show me where Jesus says that being gay is a sin.

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

hahahah, pathetic. I rest my case.

do you also put your wife out in the barn and wash and wipe down everything in the house too?

"When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening."

Leviticus 15:19-23

*crickets*

A whole host of archaic/barbaric practices could be considered legitimate with his attitude: slavery (sexual and labor), death for not believing in this particular god, honor killing, genocide, stoning of undesirables/law breakers, the list goes on.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: angminas
Originally posted by: Citrix

again, tell me where Jesus said being gay is a sin. SHOW ME!!!!

i dont understand your line of thinking. you said that being born gay (if its possible) is not a sin, but living gay is. hummm. so a person who is born gay its ok just as long as they dont do anything with the same sex. that pretty f*cked up man. how would you like it that since you were born Hetrosexual and you are very much attracted to women but you cant be with a woman because to do so is a sin, you have to be with men.

Yes people are born gay, and i mean true homosexuals not the people who claim to be BIsexual and are just satisfying their couriosity.

Jesus quoted from and validated the Old Testament dozens of times.

3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." 4 But He answered and said, "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4. The Law such as in the Leviticus quote about homosexuality was told from God directly to Moses. It was words that proceeded from the mouth of God, and Jesus here says men are to live by such. If one doesn't think the Bible is God's word, there's not much point in arguing about how it all fits together. It's like putting together a puzzle with a picture of an elephant when you've never seen an elephant and refuse to believe they exist, then complaining that the pieces aren't making any recognizable picture.

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matthew 5. Some parts of the OT have been FULFILLED, but none of it has been DESTROYED. The law against homosexual behavior is still binding. If it were not, some of my later quotes would be ridiculous and doctrinally false.

In Acts 9, Jesus appears to Saul (later renamed Paul) and tells Saul that he will be told what he must do. (As opposed to, just write whatever you want, and I'll let it slide, whether it's correct or not.) In this chapter Jesus says Saul is "a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel." Later this same Paul, being specifically chosen and guided by Jesus, wrote...

"27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." Romans 1. There's more in Romans on the subject.

"9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. " 1Cor6. This is not referring to people who are born a certain way and have no choice or control- it's talking about people who know how to behave properly but still choose to do wrong. All homosexual activity is fornication.

"16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2Tim3. At the time Paul wrote this, the New Testament did not exist as such. He clearly says that you must obey the Old Testament to be a man of God. This was in the final letter he wrote, so it's not like he changed his mind later.

This is just a smattering of quotes...there's a lot more. Of course, a verse or two at a time are just that. It is possible to take them out of context and make them look like something they're not. And some people just can't understand the Bible at all.

I have been thankful many times that I was not born homosexual. I have enough problems as it is. I empathize with those who are put in that unenviable position. But I was given things that were wrong or difficult that I needed to overcome, and I have worked hard on them and made progress. This process and my many mistakes have taught me that it's not ok to just do what comes naturally, because when we act naturally, we hurt people. Do people born or raised with bad tempers get to yell and scream (or worse) just because it's difficult and unnatural for them to choose different behavior? Do addictive personalities get a free pass on alcoholism, since they have to completely break away from something they enjoy in order to control the situation? Children are born selfish and unable to understand the feelings of others...should we let them grow up like that so they can be "free" to worship themselves at the expense of others? Are we bigots, bad parents, small minded, control freaks, or crazy Nazi doctors if we teach our children to act how they ought instead of how they want?

NO. What's wrong is wrong, regardless of whether it's easy to change or whether we like it. God says clearly that homosexual behavior is a sin, and since He created the universe, He gets to make the rules. There are many good reasons besides.

Not all trials and difficulties are from God, but He does send some things to us to give us the opportunity to overcome who we used to be.

"2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing." James 1:2-4.

"3 The refining pot is for silver and the furnace for gold, But the Lord tests the hearts."
Proverbs 17:3.

We are not here to do whatever we feel like. Jesus didn't die horribly so we could lust, murder, envy, hate, or fornicate at will, as long as we say we're sorry every once in a while. He died so that we could have a chance to see what happens in a world where people live by their own laws, under the influence of Satan rather than God. We are here to learn to be more like Jesus...and Jesus obeys the word of the Lord.

So must any Christian.

Do me and yourself a favor and research what a natural Eunuch is and what Jesus said about them.

also you didnt answer my question if you consider women unclean when they have their period. if you are married or plan to be, will you follow the word of God and wash everything she touches while she is on her period?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Originally posted by: Citrix
what a moron. i would love to ask him when was the last time he ate pork or shellfish. after all in the eyes of God eating those things are just as unclean as gay sex.

funny how they pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. :disgust:

Interesting, because in the words of Jesus himself:

Matthew 15:

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[e] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

With this series of statements Jesus declared that the dietary restrictions of Israel did not apply to Christians. Yet another common flamebait argument with no basis in scripture.

show me where Jesus says that being gay is a sin.

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

hahahah, pathetic. I rest my case.

do you also put your wife out in the barn and wash and wipe down everything in the house too?

"When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening."

Leviticus 15:19-23

*crickets*

A whole host of archaic/barbaric practices could be considered legitimate with his attitude: slavery (sexual and labor), death for not believing in this particular god, honor killing, genocide, stoning of undesirables/law breakers, the list goes on.

Gay hate too?

 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,997
37,170
136
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Originally posted by: Citrix
what a moron. i would love to ask him when was the last time he ate pork or shellfish. after all in the eyes of God eating those things are just as unclean as gay sex.

funny how they pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. :disgust:

Interesting, because in the words of Jesus himself:

Matthew 15:

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[e] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

With this series of statements Jesus declared that the dietary restrictions of Israel did not apply to Christians. Yet another common flamebait argument with no basis in scripture.

show me where Jesus says that being gay is a sin.

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

hahahah, pathetic. I rest my case.

do you also put your wife out in the barn and wash and wipe down everything in the house too?

"When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening."

Leviticus 15:19-23

*crickets*

A whole host of archaic/barbaric practices could be considered legitimate with his attitude: slavery (sexual and labor), death for not believing in this particular god, honor killing, genocide, stoning of undesirables/law breakers, the list goes on.

Gay hate too?

Certainly. The Bible can be used to that end (and is all the time).

I attended various Christian schools through HS. My 8th grade religion teacher (a pastor btw) told me point blank in front of the entire class that I was going to hell because I wasn't a Lutheran (I was baptized Greek Orthodox). The total sum of my experiences has forged me into a committed agnostic, if I was inclined to believe in god I would almost certainly be a Deist. Few organized Christian religions actually follow what Christ taught in most ways and have been seriously corrupted for material and political gain over the centuries.

Out of three major Christian religions I had the least amount of trouble with the Catholics oddly enough. They were more than happy to take the check, stfu, and provide a quality education.